The Sinister Scheme of Dr. Fu Manchu

Rivals:

India to our north (pink), America to our north east (blue).

I am completely fine in Opening Borders with everyone at this stage. A positive diplomatic modifier and the opportunity 'in time' to do some reconnaissance for any war plans that we may want to progress seems all good to me.

Settling:

I agree with FiveRings re. proposed four tiles north of the Horses as a land grab in light of America. (See more ramblings below).

Chopping:

I tend to go for the eight tiles around the city first for protection (that is, enemy stacks can't hide in forests just outside of our city) and then 'good' tiles such as Hills and Riverside Grassland on the outer ring of the BFC. Plains under Forest on the outer / 2nd ring should possibly be left to last if at all. Please note that Manchu's Snarl is at its health cap and we have three Forests left (one can go before worsening our :yuck: provided no re-growths of Forests).

Strategy:

I'm actually just as inclined to REX 'what we can' in light of encroachment from the north and east. Shame about that food-rich northern area, but there's still a few possible good sites left. Unlike the 'Sword of Osman' game, I was mindful not to put any constraining time limits on our progress in light of variants, so we can take as long as we want in terms of expansion by warfare (and indeed, we're also on a Terra map which extends another option). If we can settle a couple of sites around the Floodplains and then three or four to the west, we should be good for a while. We have generally good potential trading partners, and the Financial + Floodplains predicament should be sufficient for us to engineer ourselves to a 'break out' point at some stage or other. The fact that we're not sitting next door to Mao or Stalin (for now at any rate) is further encouraging of the success of taking a more developmental approach.

Still, once again, a Horse Archer founded attack strategy could work very well, and neither Gandhi nor Roosevelt have early-game UU's of concern or warrior traits to deter us, and as already noted, Korea's Archers will enjoy some bonus from City Garrison I but their Drill I won't help them against Horse Archers. As obvious as it is, I suppose it's worth noting that getting Archery along the way also allows us to build 'Protective' Archers.

I will leave this call up to the roster (whether we bee-line the tech's for Horseback Riding or not, and whether it's worth our effort to also pursue the religious tech's for The Oracle or not).
 
Thanks, Cam!

I think I understand your rationale behind the HA-rush idea. I was just curious about whether V's change of mind had something more or different as a cause, except emotion-driven warmongering...;)

I have two major doubts about HA-rush: (1) is that hunting->archery seems redundant after BW, and (2) I have got the feeling from my games that the more you have from a resource, the more Sid has given from that or a similar resource to his beloved tribe, the AIs, I mean:(. THE resource seems to be food-or-gold (more food than gold in the digital thinking ways of the AIs, I guess). With India, China, Korea and America by our side this might mean enormous expansion potential on their part. My feeling is that once we go the path of war, we might better not get off it. If this is it, then no expansion of our own would do good - if we don't want to choke ourselves or raze shrines and capitals. Besides, this might jeopardize our fulfilling the requirements, as we might kill the objects of the Dr's evil-doing somewhat prematurely....:lol:

Bust the fog before my eyes, and I'll gladly raise the banners of Chenghiz...erh, his Manchu Fu re-incarnation! :D (No offense meant to the Mongolians and the unknown offspring of the Great Khan!!:cool:)
 
From the SS (can't check save now, warlords machine at work), It looks like we may need to think about settling to the NE? I'm not sure. It seems to me that if we are to pursue the Oracle, then HA rush is not really going to work right now. Now, I may be (probably) wrong, but since we still need to grab Med and PH before even starting Oracle, combined with the fact that we don't have Marble, it seems rather unfeasible.

My teching choices would be to stuff the Oracle, go IW for possible iron (very possibly on those hills to our NE). This is a gamble but without metal we are somewhat stuffed and have no choice but to do HA and Hwatchas. IMO going IW first would help us strategise our war a lot better. Many of our opponents have BW and, for all we know, copper too. If they have spears, our HA's will be pretty useless and we will need a more mixed stack.

Now I'm also all for attacking the Chinese. In my experience, Mao is a horrible opponent to have in the game. Something about him simply rally annoys me. I will give it some thoughts and elaborate later but it's either his teching or arrogance or something like constant demands that really make me [pissed]. Anyhoo, those are my thoughts atm. Also, if we settle more Northwards, there is some stone as well iirc.

I will check in again in a few hours. We have municipal votes today so I'm not at work (hence my machine being there) but will zip into the office for a bit and check save and ramble on a bit more etc etc etc...
 
hmm as it seems it would be much better if I will hand over the TS to FiveRings. At first I thought it's "clear" what we do, but now it seems that it's not.

I thought that to our north between the pigs and corn it's actually Mao's land (dark pink), but would have to check again.

I am still thinking that the settler which will get produced next turn should go to the 1NW of east horse, because we need to grow cottages in capital and a lot of them. If we bunker him somewhere in the north east it will be deadweight pretty much since we need to improve capital a bit first.

3-4 city classical war breakouts are feasible.

I wouldn't go with IW... like at all. better to get Alpha and trade for it (there is absolutely no argument for IW when IW is tech that all AI's get sooner then alpha).
 
hmm as it seems it would be much better if I will hand over the TS to FiveRings. At first I thought it's "clear" what we do, but now it seems that it's not.

I thought that to our north between the pigs and corn it's actually Mao's land (dark pink), but would have to check again.

I am still thinking that the settler which will get produced next turn should go to the 1NW of east horse, because we need to grow cottages in capital and a lot of them. If we bunker him somewhere in the north east it will be deadweight pretty much since we need to improve capital a bit first.

3-4 city classical war breakouts are feasible.

I wouldn't go with IW... like at all. better to get Alpha and trade for it (there is absolutely no argument for IW when IW is tech that all AI's get sooner then alpha).

I think you deserve well your double turn, V, and will hate to deprive you of it!

However, if you don't have the time or the energy&patience to deal with the team situation, then I'll be happy to get into action.

Anyway, let me sum it up the way I read it;): most of us are in favor of, or don't mind, settling V's dot by the eastern horses. We are still somewhat divided on whether to go into an HA rush or REX, and whether the choking dot in the NE comes as the most plausible next settlement, rexing or not. We are also not clear about whom we are attacking first, if we go for the rush: the Orange Imposter or the Pink Intruder, and whether we are razing everything we conquer or we are keeping shrines and capitals. We were still in doubt whether to go Oracle, or not.

We have some side-ideas about teching IW and going for an H-rush instead of the HA rush.

I think that for the next dozen of turns it boils down to one question with three possible one-word answers: REX or HA-rush or H-rush?

I would suggest that everybody makes up her/his mind as to what she or he prefers, and answers it. If V finds he can play further settling the V dot and modifying his PPP as to what are the answers received, he goes for it and posts a save and a report where he finds it convenient but within a turn set of max 20 turns (including the ones done already). If he still feels like skipping the rest of his turn, then I'm getting it and will play tomorrow evening.

My answer to the one question is: HA rush.

In addition: I'd give the Oracle a try as it could speed up our development and will in the worst case provide us with gold to continue research till we get the HA. I'll go Alphabet, if successful with Oracle, and get whatever there is, and I'll go for a third settlement in the NE, 4N of Eastern horses (it chokes the Blue, and provides a good cottage+prod opportunity). I won't go for more than 4 cities before attacking, and I'd rather choose the object of attack after further recon.

And this is not set in stone, of course, if the situation changes - which it almost always does
 
My vote is the team vote. :) Go team! Go! Yay!

Aside from that ... doubtful on The Oracle, but won't object. We need two Settlers out 'pronto' ... whip for 4N of Horses, slow build Library to regrow to 4 asap ... whip Settler for 1NW of Horses. We're surrounded by peaceful builders over there, and shouldn't theoretically even hit Barbarians because I don't know where they can even spawn.

It's def. India, not China.

Don't mind on Hwachas vs. Horse Archers vs. Protective Rifles. ;)
 
My vote is the team vote. :) Go team! Go! Yay!

Aside from that ... doubtful on The Oracle, but won't object. We need two Settlers out 'pronto' ... whip for 4N of Horses, slow build Library to regrow to 4 asap ... whip Settler for 1NW of Horses. We're surrounded by peaceful builders over there, and shouldn't theoretically even hit Barbarians because I don't know where they can even spawn.

It's def. India, not China.

Don't mind on Hwachas vs. Horse Archers vs. Protective Rifles. ;)

I like this:D but, V, Cam has also agreed in an earlier post to 1NW of Eastern Horses, so, it's up to you to decide which one comes first....and think up THE MOST SINISTER NAME for it!:lol:
 
nah I am fine with those 9 turns ;-). better to give the privilege to FiveRings.

Just to remind you the signs are there to guide you through the process of next 10 turns of both workers what you should do imo ;-), but feel free to do something else, especially when you waste my so preciousely built settler in some desert waste far east...

I agree with cam about going with another settler after this one and whip it for max overflow (if you are not sure how to do it, on my channel there is some video about whip training) into library...

as for the Oracle race... i don't mind if we skip it ;-). We haven't invested beaker overflow yet so whatever you choose would be good (obviously you could go with math instead).
 
nah I am fine with those 9 turns ;-). better to give the privilege to FiveRings.

Just to remind you the signs are there to guide you through the process of next 10 turns of both workers what you should do imo ;-), but feel free to do something else, especially when you waste my so preciousely built settler in some desert waste far east...

I agree with cam about going with another settler after this one and whip it for max overflow (if you are not sure how to do it, on my channel there is some video about whip training) into library...

as for the Oracle race... i don't mind if we skip it ;-). We haven't invested beaker overflow yet so whatever you choose would be good (obviously you could go with math instead).

Well, well...

Anyway, I consider I have the 48 hours deadline from your skip - just in case I won't be able to play. I couldn't get right a couple of your inscriptions on the tiles, but I guess we are both of the same opinion that cottages are the priority.

So, my general PPP:

1. settle the NE dot - 4N of Eastern horses.
2. do my best to get cottages around the capital and the Oracle (I think library in the Snarl will be good so will weigh and let you know later the details)
3. move tech-wise to get HBR
4. follow my own ideas of whipping a worker after growth in the Bay.

Any suggestions?

I'll play 15 turns as per rules, or less, if I think that I need more advice or that the situation has changed significantly enough to require some team-thinking...
 
I think you took it from the wrong end... every member of SheWolves SG and probably mine SG team would assure you that I actually like to do short turnsets, my typical TS is about 10 turns... it's about right for my max concentration, so if you would insist on me playing further it would be actually like I would play 2x TS which is not right.

So if I "just finished Writing" it's natural point for me to hand over the game. Actually I think one of mistakes we did with this game is that we played up to T50 only 2 turnsets...
after you will get some more experience you will realize that the game is most interesting up to T 115 at which point you usually can see and know how the game will inevitably end.
So going with long turnsets at the beginning is actually detrimental to enjoyment of the game ;-).
 
I think you took it from the wrong end... every member of SheWolves SG and probably mine SG team would assure you that I actually like to do short turnsets, my typical TS is about 10 turns... it's about right for my max concentration, so if you would insist on me playing further it would be actually like I would play 2x TS which is not right.

So if I "just finished Writing" it's natural point for me to hand over the game. Actually I think one of mistakes we did with this game is that we played up to T50 only 2 turnsets...
after you will get some more experience you will realize that the game is most interesting up to T 115 at which point you usually can see and know how the game will inevitably end.
So going with long turnsets at the beginning is actually detrimental to enjoyment of the game ;-).

I think you might be right...from what I have seen as discussions in other SGs.

Anyway, sorry for not getting it right! I wouldn't like to get too long turnsets either, I think...
 
Cam, for me, it would really be more beneficial if the more experienced players did at least as many of the turns, so, not speaing on behalf of W, of course, but only myself, strictly, can we have a somewhat modified rules allowing for this?! Please!:cry:
 

No.

:D

I think you took it from the wrong end... every member of SheWolves SG and probably mine SG team would assure you that I actually like to do short turnsets, my typical TS is about 10 turns.

I assure you that he takes short turnsets.

... and stop whining about the roster and the game format. Really I should be insisting you play your 15!

_____


I still don't know if we're any closer on an agreed position on tech' paths and strategy. I'd press on with your PPP and wait to get feedback from woopdeedoo at least.

Generally though ... I'd encourage the settlement of those two cities (leverage Slavery as already noted) at least, and work cottages around the Capital. I am leaving the tech' path and The Oracle prospect open to the team's discretion.

(1) is that hunting->archery seems redundant after BW

Well, if we're ever on 'the receiving end', our Protective Longbows and Crossbows could very well 'save the day'.
 
I don't know if we're any closer on an agreed position on tech' paths and strategy. I'd press on with your PPP and wait to get feedback from woopdeedoo at least.

Generally though ... I'd encourage the settlement of those two cities (leverage Slavery as already noted) at least, and work cottages around the Capital. I am leaving the tech' path and The Oracle prospect open to the team's discretion.

I'll be waiting for about 12 hours from now.



Well, if we're ever on 'the receiving end', our Protective Longbows and Crossbows could very well 'save the day'.

I am still to see this happen in my games, the day saved by LBs/CBs...
 
when we're at it protective LB's and CB's make for very good rush units ;-). For reference you can search some videos from Chris (AbsoluteZero) on YT. He did both on deity.

And from my latest experience on Monarch the AI's don't get Feud until mid AD's. Soooo :) :)
 
I wouldn't go with IW... like at all. better to get Alpha and trade for it (there is absolutely no argument for IW when IW is tech that all AI's get sooner then alpha).

After I posted this and thought about it, I realised that that path would be better. If we get Oracle, which I still think is a really long shot, then expensive tech trade for IW will work nicely. As for settling, FR, knock yourself out. I have a weird battle seeing BFCs without BUG dotmaps so I'm sorry for that.
 
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