Team Free Embassy

The difference is 360 beakers, so 180 gold seems fair to me.
 
Good call AT.
I was just going with the bigger number for the gold, as I've been accused in the past of trying to give too much away to FREE. ;)
I'm good with either 200 or 180… but opinion seems to be swinging back to 180, so I've changed it to that here in version 3

Changes in this version:
  • In Article IV - Required Tech Wonders – I moved Leo's to FREE's side, and Copernicus to our side. :)
  • In Article III - Optional Tech Wonders – I eliminated Shakespeare's Theatre as even an option for either team to choose.
  • In Article III - Optional Tech Wonders – I added a subpoint allow an advantage to each team in case there's a dispute over both teams wanting the same optional tech wonder. FREE got the advantage on Magellan and K.Templar… we got Smith and Bach.
  • Balancing Polytheism added to Article II as a subpoint – requests 180 gold over 10 turns, no other options.
  • EDIT:cleaned up some language in defining the invasion to hopefully improve clarity in article V.

Here's Version 3
Spoiler :

Dear FREE allies,

At long last, our response to your proposal for the Middle Ages!
We'd like to suggest going beyond just a tech arrangement, and do a full treaty including peace, foreign relations, etc… and call it the MAAP II agreement.
Hopefully you're open to that idea.

Following is our proposal for the MAAP II:

I. Peace
  • FREE and The Council agree to extended the period of guaranteed peace with each other through the middle ages.
  • The "15 turns notice of intent to cancel" clause of our long-standing peace treaty may not be activated until after the swap of our Industrial Era Bonus techs.

II. Mutually Assured Advancement Plan - II
  • FREE and The Council agree to continue to cooperate to get into the Industrial Era as rapidly as possible.
  • Both teams agree to not execute a "slow burn" in getting technologies slower in favor of stockpiling gold, unless explicitly approved by the other team.
  • Both teams pledge to do their level best to not undermine the alliance in rapid advancement of knowledge.
  • The following MAAP II agreement may only be modified by joint agreement of the teams.
  • The MAAP II naturally expires after the exchange of our Bonus Industrial Era technologies, but both teams hereby express a desire to continue to work together on a MAAP III agreement for the Industrial Era.
  • FREE agrees to make up the 360 beaker imbalance in the MAAP II agreement by paying ½ of that amount in gold to The Council. The Council agrees to let FREE pay this amount over 10 turns from the signing of this treaty if FREE would like.

The MAAP II
Code:
[U]FREE[/U]                                  [U]The Council[/U]
				Polytheism Imbalance (720)
Monotheism (1080)               	Invention (1320)
Theology (1200)                  	Gunpowder (1440)
Education (1320)                 	Chemistry (1800)
Astronomy (1680)                	Metallurgy (1920)
Physics (1920)                     	Magnetism (2040)
Banking (1560)                  	Military Tradition (1920)
Theory of Gravity (2040)

[B]Total 10,800                        	11,160[/B]
* Exchange IA bonus techs without regard to beaker value

III. Optional Techs and Their Wonders
  • There are several wonders in the Middle Ages that are attached to techs not covered by the MAAP II agreement. They are: Knights Templar (Chivalry), JS Bach (Music), Shakespeare's theatre (Free Artistry), Smith's Trading Co (Economics), and Magellan's Voyage (Navigation).
  • If either team would like to build one of these wonders, they must first notify the other team and get their approval that the tech can be gained without unreasonably slowing down the coordination on getting Physics, on unreasonably slowing the advance to the IA. If the tech can be gained without unacceptably slowing things down for either team, then…
  • For Knights Templar or Smith's Trading Co., the team getting the wonder will supply the tech (Chivalry or Economics) without charge or expected compensation in beakers in exchange for building the wonder unchallenged.
  • For JS Bach, the team building the wonder will agree to give one of their surplus luxury resources for free for 40 turns in exchange for non-competition.
  • For Shakespeare's Theatre, both teams agree to forget about this wonder, as 3,600 beakers is just too large an investment for one wonder.
  • For Magellan's Voyage, the team that builds the wonder agrees to turn over their world map ONE time at the request of the other team (this request can not be made later than when Replaceable Parts is learned by either team) in exchange for non-competition. The traded world map may not be subsequently traded away without the permission of the other team.
  • In the unlikely event that both teams desire to pay the price for one of the optional tech wonders, FREE shall have the advantage on Magellan's Voyage and the Knight's Templar. The Council shall have the advantage on Smith's Trading Co, and JS Bach.

IV. Required Technology Wonders
  • There are several wonders in the Middle Ages that are attached to techs that ARE covered by the MAAP II agreement. They are: Sun Tzu's Art of War (Feudalism), Sistine Chapel (Monotheism), Leonardo's Workshop (Invention), Copernicus' Observatory (Astronomy), and Newton's University (Theory of Gravity). Of these, FREE has previously identified Sun Tzu, Leonardo's Workshop as being most important to them.
  • Both teams agree to just assign the "rights" to each wonder to either side. These "rights to build" may be traded away to the other team in any negotiations that may come up.
  • Team FREE shall have the right to build: Sun Tzu's Art of War, Leo's Workshop, & all remaining AA wonders
  • The Council shall have the right to build: Copernicus' Observatory, Newton's University, & the Sistine Chapel

V. Defense Against All
  • If either team is invaded in the next 40 turns, the team that hasn’t been invaded will provide 50 gold per turn to the besieged team for the duration of the invasion, or up to 750 gold total (15 turns), whichever is less.
  • If either team is invaded, both teams will be relieved of their obligations to continue research at top speed on the MAAP plan, in recognition of the enhanced need for gold. When the invasion is over, normal obligations will resume – but both teams pledge to be generous towards the other if the MAAP needs to be adjusted after the invasion due to setbacks from the fighting
  • For purposes of the DAA, an “invasion” will be defined as any enemy units on shore, or waiting immediately off-shore, with with actual fighting starting shortly after.
  • Each team will immediately notify the other of any sightings of enemy ships with their (approximate) locations and heading. Each team will also notify the other if any foreign team begins making aggressive demands or sends other signals as a possible prelude to war.
  • As a defense against other's catching us in our technology lead, both teams agree to not trade, sell, or otherwise transfer any technology to foreign teams without the express permission of the other ally.


I'm liking this more and more all the time! Go team [party]
More ideas? More changes needed? Any remaining problems with what's here?

As far as I'm concerned, this gets us all the wonders we want, and first dibbs on Smith's in the unlikely event that we want to build it. (not to mention all the other great stuff... peace, gold if we're attacked, double speed to the IA...)

I see no further reason to wait on an answer from FREE, and would personally be comfortable sending this even today.
:salute:
 
I think it looks really good. :thumbsup:

Just a minor, "There are several wonders in the Industrial Era...", first bullet under III, should of course be Medieval Era.
 
:lol: good catch. Edit made above.
(Or rather, Middle Ages, as I think the term was changed for Conquests. )
 
Very good! Let's hope they go for it!

In the last clause, I would replace sightings of enemy ships by sightings of foreign ships. I would also add the notification of new contacts somewhere. (It can only be GONG, but still.)
 
@AT – I assume you're referring to the clause on Magellan's Voyage? Yeah, the maps thing is there assuming that the extra power of their ships will allow them to scout more… revealing more of the world… revealing any missing resources… sealanes… hidden islands… whatever.

@ zyxy – Good one! I'll add that to Article I (Peace).

Here's Version 3.1
Spoiler :

Dear FREE allies,

At long last, our response to your proposal for the Middle Ages!
We'd like to suggest going beyond just a tech arrangement, and do a full treaty including peace, foreign relations, etc… and call it the MAAP II agreement.
Hopefully you're open to that idea.

Following is our proposal for the MAAP II:

I. Peace
  • FREE and The Council agree to extended the period of guaranteed peace with each other through the middle ages.
  • The "15 turns notice of intent to cancel" clause of our long-standing peace treaty may not be activated until after the swap of our Industrial Era Bonus techs.
  • The "notification of meeting other contacts" clause will also be extended into the Middle Ages. Actual swap of in-game contacts will continue to be left up to the discretion of both teams.

II. Mutually Assured Advancement Plan - II
  • FREE and The Council agree to continue to cooperate to get into the Industrial Era as rapidly as possible.
  • Both teams agree to not execute a "slow burn" in getting technologies slower in favor of stockpiling gold, unless explicitly approved by the other team.
  • Both teams pledge to do their level best to not undermine the alliance in rapid advancement of knowledge.
  • The following MAAP II agreement may only be modified by joint agreement of the teams.
  • The MAAP II naturally expires after the exchange of our Bonus Industrial Era technologies, but both teams hereby express a desire to continue to work together on a MAAP III agreement for the Industrial Era.
  • FREE agrees to make up the 360 beaker imbalance in the MAAP II agreement by paying ½ of that amount in gold to The Council. The Council agrees to let FREE pay this amount over 10 turns from the signing of this treaty if FREE would like.

The MAAP II
Code:
[U]FREE[/U]                                  [U]The Council[/U]
				Polytheism Imbalance (720)
Monotheism (1080)               	Invention (1320)
Theology (1200)                  	Gunpowder (1440)
Education (1320)                 	Chemistry (1800)
Astronomy (1680)                	Metallurgy (1920)
Physics (1920)                     	Magnetism (2040)
Banking (1560)                  	Military Tradition (1920)
Theory of Gravity (2040)

[B]Total 10,800                        	11,160[/B]
* Exchange IA bonus techs without regard to beaker value

III. Optional Techs and Their Wonders
  • There are several wonders in the Middle Ages that are attached to techs not covered by the MAAP II agreement. They are: Knights Templar (Chivalry), JS Bach (Music), Shakespeare's theatre (Free Artistry), Smith's Trading Co (Economics), and Magellan's Voyage (Navigation).
  • If either team would like to build one of these wonders, they must first notify the other team and get their approval that the tech can be gained without unreasonably slowing down the coordination on getting Physics, on unreasonably slowing the advance to the IA. If the tech can be gained without unacceptably slowing things down for either team, then…
  • For Knights Templar or Smith's Trading Co., the team getting the wonder will supply the tech (Chivalry or Economics) without charge or expected compensation in beakers in exchange for building the wonder unchallenged.
  • For JS Bach, the team building the wonder will agree to give one of their surplus luxury resources for free for 40 turns in exchange for non-competition.
  • For Shakespeare's Theatre, both teams agree to forget about this wonder, as 3,600 beakers is just too large an investment for one wonder.
  • For Magellan's Voyage, the team that builds the wonder agrees to turn over their world map ONE time at the request of the other team (this request can not be made later than when Replaceable Parts is learned by either team) in exchange for non-competition. The traded world map may not be subsequently traded away without the permission of the other team.
  • In the unlikely event that both teams desire to pay the price for one of the optional tech wonders, FREE shall have the advantage on Magellan's Voyage and the Knight's Templar. The Council shall have the advantage on Smith's Trading Co, and JS Bach.

IV. Required Technology Wonders
  • There are several wonders in the Middle Ages that are attached to techs that ARE covered by the MAAP II agreement. They are: Sun Tzu's Art of War (Feudalism), Sistine Chapel (Monotheism), Leonardo's Workshop (Invention), Copernicus' Observatory (Astronomy), and Newton's University (Theory of Gravity). Of these, FREE has previously identified Sun Tzu, Leonardo's Workshop as being most important to them.
  • Both teams agree to just assign the "rights" to each wonder to either side. These "rights to build" may be traded away to the other team in any negotiations that may come up.
  • Team FREE shall have the right to build: Sun Tzu's Art of War, Leo's Workshop, & all remaining AA wonders
  • The Council shall have the right to build: Copernicus' Observatory, Newton's University, & the Sistine Chapel

V. Defense Against All
  • If either team is invaded in the next 40 turns, the team that hasn’t been invaded will provide 50 gold per turn to the besieged team for the duration of the invasion, or up to 750 gold total (15 turns), whichever is less.
  • If either team is invaded, both teams will be relieved of their obligations to continue research at top speed on the MAAP plan, in recognition of the enhanced need for gold. When the invasion is over, normal obligations will resume – but both teams pledge to be generous towards the other if the MAAP needs to be adjusted after the invasion due to setbacks from the fighting
  • For purposes of the DAA, an “invasion” will be defined as any enemy units on shore, or waiting immediately off-shore, with with actual fighting starting shortly after.
  • Each team will immediately notify the other of any sightings of enemy ships with their (approximate) locations and heading. Each team will also notify the other if any foreign team begins making aggressive demands or sends other signals as a possible prelude to war.
  • As a defense against other's catching us in our technology lead, both teams agree to not trade, sell, or otherwise transfer any technology to foreign teams without the express permission of the other ally.



I'm amazed that we've managed to nail down something this big with apparently near unanimous consensus. Go team! Now, FREE had better accept this! :lol:
 
I'm amazed that we've managed to nail down something this big with apparently near unanimous consensus. Go team! Now, FREE had better accept this! :lol:

You'd get actual unanimity if you wouldn't define invasion using a future occurence. ;) I can live with the latest version but I'd still either remove any reference to fighting to happen in the future or spell out what happens if fighting doesn't occur in the future.
 
Ok – For the sake on unanimity, I'll remove the reference to future fighting. Wasn't it you that suggested including it in the first place in our deal with Saber? (can't really remember now… and it's not important anyway. :) )

(Also made the zyxy suggested change to "sightings of foreign ships" )

Version 3.2:
Spoiler :

Dear FREE allies,

At long last, our response to your proposal for the Middle Ages!
We'd like to suggest going beyond just a tech arrangement, and do a full treaty including peace, foreign relations, etc… and call it the MAAP II agreement.
Hopefully you're open to that idea.

Following is our proposal for the MAAP II:

I. Peace
  • FREE and The Council agree to extended the period of guaranteed peace with each other through the middle ages.
  • The "15 turns notice of intent to cancel" clause of our long-standing peace treaty may not be activated until after the swap of our Industrial Era Bonus techs.
  • The "notification of meeting other contacts" clause will also be extended into the Middle Ages. Actual swap of in-game contacts will continue to be left up to the discretion of both teams.

II. Mutually Assured Advancement Plan - II
  • FREE and The Council agree to continue to cooperate to get into the Industrial Era as rapidly as possible.
  • Both teams agree to not execute a "slow burn" in getting technologies slower in favor of stockpiling gold, unless explicitly approved by the other team.
  • Both teams pledge to do their level best to not undermine the alliance in rapid advancement of knowledge.
  • The following MAAP II agreement may only be modified by joint agreement of the teams.
  • The MAAP II naturally expires after the exchange of our Bonus Industrial Era technologies, but both teams hereby express a desire to continue to work together on a MAAP III agreement for the Industrial Era.
  • FREE agrees to make up the 360 beaker imbalance in the MAAP II agreement by paying ½ of that amount in gold to The Council. The Council agrees to let FREE pay this amount over 10 turns from the signing of this treaty if FREE would like.

The MAAP II
Code:
[U]FREE[/U]                                  [U]The Council[/U]
				Polytheism Imbalance (720)
Monotheism (1080)               	Invention (1320)
Theology (1200)                  	Gunpowder (1440)
Education (1320)                 	Chemistry (1800)
Astronomy (1680)                	Metallurgy (1920)
Physics (1920)                     	Magnetism (2040)
Banking (1560)                  	Military Tradition (1920)
Theory of Gravity (2040)

[B]Total 10,800                        	11,160[/B]
* Exchange IA bonus techs without regard to beaker value

III. Optional Techs and Their Wonders
  • There are several wonders in the Middle Ages that are attached to techs not covered by the MAAP II agreement. They are: Knights Templar (Chivalry), JS Bach (Music), Shakespeare's theatre (Free Artistry), Smith's Trading Co (Economics), and Magellan's Voyage (Navigation).
  • If either team would like to build one of these wonders, they must first notify the other team and get their approval that the tech can be gained without unreasonably slowing down the coordination on getting Physics, on unreasonably slowing the advance to the IA. If the tech can be gained without unacceptably slowing things down for either team, then…
  • For Knights Templar or Smith's Trading Co., the team getting the wonder will supply the tech (Chivalry or Economics) without charge or expected compensation in beakers in exchange for building the wonder unchallenged.
  • For JS Bach, the team building the wonder will agree to give one of their surplus luxury resources for free for 40 turns in exchange for non-competition.
  • For Shakespeare's Theatre, both teams agree to forget about this wonder, as 3,600 beakers is just too large an investment for one wonder.
  • For Magellan's Voyage, the team that builds the wonder agrees to turn over their world map ONE time at the request of the other team (this request can not be made later than when Replaceable Parts is learned by either team) in exchange for non-competition. The traded world map may not be subsequently traded away without the permission of the other team.
  • In the unlikely event that both teams desire to pay the price for one of the optional tech wonders, FREE shall have the advantage on Magellan's Voyage and the Knight's Templar. The Council shall have the advantage on Smith's Trading Co, and JS Bach.

IV. Required Technology Wonders
  • There are several wonders in the Middle Ages that are attached to techs that ARE covered by the MAAP II agreement. They are: Sun Tzu's Art of War (Feudalism), Sistine Chapel (Monotheism), Leonardo's Workshop (Invention), Copernicus' Observatory (Astronomy), and Newton's University (Theory of Gravity). Of these, FREE has previously identified Sun Tzu, Leonardo's Workshop as being most important to them.
  • Both teams agree to just assign the "rights" to each wonder to either side. These "rights to build" may be traded away to the other team in any negotiations that may come up.
  • Team FREE shall have the right to build: Sun Tzu's Art of War, Leo's Workshop, & all remaining AA wonders
  • The Council shall have the right to build: Copernicus' Observatory, Newton's University, & the Sistine Chapel

V. Defense Against All
  • If either team is invaded in the next 40 turns, the team that hasn’t been invaded will provide 50 gold per turn to the besieged team for the duration of the invasion, or up to 750 gold total (15 turns), whichever is less.
  • If either team is invaded, both teams will be relieved of their obligations to continue research at top speed on the MAAP plan, in recognition of the enhanced need for gold. When the invasion is over, normal obligations will resume – but both teams pledge to be generous towards the other if the MAAP needs to be adjusted after the invasion due to setbacks from the fighting
  • For purposes of the DAA, an “invasion” will be defined as any enemy units on shore, or waiting immediately off-shore.
  • Each team will immediately notify the other of any sightings of foreign ships with their (approximate) locations and heading. Each team will also notify the other if any foreign team begins making aggressive demands or sends other signals as a possible prelude to war.
  • As a defense against other's catching us in our technology lead, both teams agree to not trade, sell, or otherwise transfer any technology to foreign teams without the express permission of the other ally.
 
Egads I never made that suggestion! I asked why invasion instead of war and things went from there.

Looks like we have a version that has the unanimous backing of the Council. Or am I missing someone's objection?
 
Nope! Looks unanimous to me! :D

Refreshing after all the controversy in the BABE thread! Diplomacy sure is easier when you’re pretty sure that the party isn’t just negotiating to pass the time before they kill you ;)

Sending version 3.2 to FREE.
Title: MAAP II Response!
Spoiler :

Dear FREE allies,

At long last, our response to your proposal for the Middle Ages!
We'd like to suggest going beyond just a tech arrangement, and do a full treaty including peace, foreign relations, etc… and call it the MAAP II agreement.
Hopefully you're open to that idea.

Following is our proposal for the MAAP II:

I. Peace
  • FREE and The Council agree to extended the period of guaranteed peace with each other through the middle ages.
  • The "15 turns notice of intent to cancel" clause of our long-standing peace treaty may not be activated until after the swap of our Industrial Era Bonus techs.
  • The "notification of meeting other contacts" clause will also be extended into the Middle Ages. Actual swap of in-game contacts will continue to be left up to the discretion of both teams.

II. Mutually Assured Advancement Plan - II
  • FREE and The Council agree to continue to cooperate to get into the Industrial Era as rapidly as possible.
  • Both teams agree to not execute a "slow burn" in getting technologies slower in favor of stockpiling gold, unless explicitly approved by the other team.
  • Both teams pledge to do their level best to not undermine the alliance in rapid advancement of knowledge.
  • The following MAAP II agreement may only be modified by joint agreement of the teams.
  • The MAAP II naturally expires after the exchange of our Bonus Industrial Era technologies, but both teams hereby express a desire to continue to work together on a MAAP III agreement for the Industrial Era.
  • FREE agrees to make up the 360 beaker imbalance in the MAAP II agreement by paying ½ of that amount in gold to The Council. The Council agrees to let FREE pay this amount over 10 turns from the signing of this treaty if FREE would like.

The MAAP II
Code:
[U]FREE[/U]                                  [U]The Council[/U]
				Polytheism Imbalance (720)
Monotheism (1080)               	Invention (1320)
Theology (1200)                  	Gunpowder (1440)
Education (1320)                 	Chemistry (1800)
Astronomy (1680)                	Metallurgy (1920)
Physics (1920)                     	Magnetism (2040)
Banking (1560)                  	Military Tradition (1920)
Theory of Gravity (2040)

[B]Total 10,800                        	11,160[/B]
* Exchange IA bonus techs without regard to beaker value

III. Optional Techs and Their Wonders
  • There are several wonders in the Middle Ages that are attached to techs not covered by the MAAP II agreement. They are: Knights Templar (Chivalry), JS Bach (Music), Shakespeare's theatre (Free Artistry), Smith's Trading Co (Economics), and Magellan's Voyage (Navigation).
  • If either team would like to build one of these wonders, they must first notify the other team and get their approval that the tech can be gained without unreasonably slowing down the coordination on getting Physics, on unreasonably slowing the advance to the IA. If the tech can be gained without unacceptably slowing things down for either team, then…
  • For Knights Templar or Smith's Trading Co., the team getting the wonder will supply the tech (Chivalry or Economics) without charge or expected compensation in beakers in exchange for building the wonder unchallenged.
  • For JS Bach, the team building the wonder will agree to give one of their surplus luxury resources for free for 40 turns in exchange for non-competition.
  • For Shakespeare's Theatre, both teams agree to forget about this wonder, as 3,600 beakers is just too large an investment for one wonder.
  • For Magellan's Voyage, the team that builds the wonder agrees to turn over their world map ONE time at the request of the other team (this request can not be made later than when Replaceable Parts is learned by either team) in exchange for non-competition. The traded world map may not be subsequently traded away without the permission of the other team.
  • In the unlikely event that both teams desire to pay the price for one of the optional tech wonders, FREE shall have the advantage on Magellan's Voyage and the Knight's Templar. The Council shall have the advantage on Smith's Trading Co, and JS Bach.

IV. Required Technology Wonders
  • There are several wonders in the Middle Ages that are attached to techs that ARE covered by the MAAP II agreement. They are: Sun Tzu's Art of War (Feudalism), Sistine Chapel (Monotheism), Leonardo's Workshop (Invention), Copernicus' Observatory (Astronomy), and Newton's University (Theory of Gravity). Of these, FREE has previously identified Sun Tzu and Leonardo's Workshop as being most important to them.
  • Both teams agree to just assign the "rights" to each wonder to either side. These "rights to build" may be traded away to the other team in any negotiations that may come up.
  • Team FREE shall have the right to build: Sun Tzu's Art of War, Leo's Workshop, & all remaining AA wonders
  • The Council shall have the right to build: Copernicus' Observatory, Newton's University, & the Sistine Chapel

V. Defense Against All
  • If either team is invaded in the next 40 turns, the team that hasn’t been invaded will provide 50 gold per turn to the besieged team for the duration of the invasion, or up to 750 gold total (15 turns), whichever is less.
  • If either team is invaded, both teams will be relieved of their obligations to continue research at top speed on the MAAP plan, in recognition of the enhanced need for gold. When the invasion is over, normal obligations will resume – but both teams pledge to be generous towards the other if the MAAP needs to be adjusted after the invasion due to setbacks from the fighting
  • For purposes of the DAA, an “invasion” will be defined as any enemy units on shore, or waiting immediately off-shore.
  • Each team will immediately notify the other of any sightings of foreign ships with their (approximate) locations and heading. Each team will also notify the other if any foreign team begins making aggressive demands or sends other signals as a possible prelude to war.
  • As a defense against other's catching us in our technology lead, both teams agree to not trade, sell, or otherwise transfer any technology to foreign teams without the express permission of the other ally.
 
Next question: BABE and SABER.

It may well be that BABE is going to attack SABER. Should we consider gifting SABER to the middle ages, as well, and ensure they get Feudalism? I would vastly prefer to send BABE against GONG - let them spend each other's GA against each other.

Of course, giving SABER Feudalism might make BABE look at us more, and that's no good. BABE may find FREE, as well, and that's not necessarily good, though a horde of enkidu and MDI will cause BABE a lot of problems, to say nothing of the issue of attacking directly into a Civ in a GA (which the first MW loss to enkidu would create)

The reason I bring this up here is, of course, that we should talk with FREE about it.
 
Free has little to fear from Babe. It's just either SABER or us. We've already covered a Defense Against All treaty, so I don't think we can do more than that.
 
I think we should wait till SABER is actually attacked before discussing gifting techs to them. I am in favor of doing whatever we can to stalemate BABE but let's not be premature.
 
Donsig said:
I think we should wait till SABER is actually attacked before discussing gifting techs to them. I am in favor of doing whatever we can to stalemate BABE but let's not be premature.
Well put! :agree: I agree.

We also don't want to freak FREE out about us being too cozy with Saber. If Saber is under attack and getting pummled, that's a golden opportunity to go to FREE and point out how bad things will be for all of us if BABE controls two continents. That's the ideal time to gift them into the Middle Ages… when we're sure that Saber is going to be badly setback anyway, making them less of a threat in the Middle Ages.

I do think we should send a note to FREE telling them about our Sun Tzu ploy… but I'd also like to combine that with a note about Saber and MapMaking… if we can reach a decision on that in a timely manner.
 
Ok – it does look unlikely that we're going to have a decision on what to do with MapMaking with Saber here soon…

So here's the note I propse sending to FREE.
There's been enough approving comments elsewhere, I don't feel like we need much discussion – but I'll wait to send it until zyxy has played the save, just in case.

Dear FREE allies,

Just a quick note keep you in the loop!

Our talks with BABE haven't gone great… they're very aggressive and clearly looking for a chance to use their Great Lighthouse advantage to find a military target… expanding their empire and sparking a golden age.
Apparently, they've made some disturbing comments to Saber about wanting to attack one of the scientific Civs to slow down the pace of advancement in this game. :scared:
If you haven't seem them yet, keep out a sharp eye for the BABE's they've got boats out all over looking to make contacts and identify their best target.

Also, just to let you know, we will be switching to Sun Tzu's Art of war for a few turns… just to prove that we DO have Feudalism in an attempt to deter BABE from attacking us. Don't worry – we won't make any moves on a Middle Ages wonder until we have an agreement with you over the MAAP II proposal we sent.

Hope all is well in the land of FREEdom!

- General_W Speaking with the voice of The Council

Figured as long as I was writing a note, I might try to put a little fear of BABE into FREE, making it more likely for them to sign the DAA part of the MAAP II proposal… hopefully they don't need the extra motivation, but anyway.

Thoughts?
 
Just checked the save, it appears Babe now have contact with Free, this may require some slight alterations to the letter.
 
Looks good, and alterations aren't really necessary, we can pretend we didn't notice yet.
 
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