Do players regard France's new UA as underwhelming

A

Astennu

Warlord
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
123
To expand on my point in my introduction post below, I would like to aim for a cultural victory with France, however I'm having concerns that their UA is a bit weak.

It only applies to their capital, and tourism only has limited uses in boosting other areas besides Culture. It seems that the new UA has drastically reduced France's versatility to pursue multiple victory conditions. Of course I'll be focusing solely on CV, but having that extra boost overall would be nice.

Can anyone relate their experience using France recently?
 
I certainly hate it.
On higher difficulties you won't get more than 2-3 wonders in Paris, so it's useless.
It's useless in the first place for any games but Culture Victories... the only one this is competing with is the Mongols ;)

it's especially painful as France went from the most versatile civ in the game to the least versatile.

Hint: Imho all they'd need to do is giving Paris +2 Culture per turn before discovering Steam Power (same as previously, but limited to Paris instead of all cities) [not even sure if it has to go with steam power, could as well just stay all game too].
 
World wonders isn't the only source of theming bonuses for Paris; you can also build two national wonders there along with a Museum.

Also, while France has a minor edge for Cultural via UA; it's UB gives it a minor edge towards both Diplomatic and Space race victory (Freedom version) via more gold.
 
Ya the France UA sucks now; the old civ was much better. As an Englishman, I am exceedingly happy about this :).
 
FeiLing said:
I certainly hate it.
On higher difficulties you won't get more than 2-3 wonders in Paris, so it's useless.
It's useless in the first place for any games but Culture Victories... the only one this is competing with is the Mongols ;)

it's especially painful as France went from the most versatile civ in the game to the least versatile.

Hint: Imho all they'd need to do is giving Paris +2 Culture per turn before discovering Steam Power (same as previously, but limited to Paris instead of all cities) [not even sure if it has to go with steam power, could as well just stay all game too].
Click to expand...

I agree with FeiLing fully.

France used to have +2 culture in every city from the very first turn. That would help pick-up early SP's quickly. More importantly, it'd really help expand borders quickly.

Now, no matter what difficulty level, France starts slower (no +2 culture per city anymore, need to get Chateau's up to get culture in any unique way, etc.). Worse, at higher levels, as FeiLing points out, you probably will struggle to get enough wonders up in Paris to really use the UA.

And I agree with the Hint part of the quote: at least give culture in the capitol until Steam power. I mean, even Japan now can get earlier culture (via UA and fishing boats).
 
I'm fine with the Chateau replacing the +2 Culture per city until Steam Power, as I think it's overall an improvement and it's neat to dot the countryside with Chateaus. Nice boost to Tourism, having all those nice culture and gold tiles to use with Hotels and Airports.

The UA is pretty lousy in my opinion. If it applied to every city, so all the museums could enjoy nice Theme bonuses it'd be a bit better, but frankly I think it needs an entirely new idea. I get that they're set up for Culture / War, but their War aspect has been lost with the loss of the foreign legion. Maybe they need to tie Culture back to war or science somehow.
 
Probably tougher on higher difficulty levels, but even then you will at least always be able to build Oxford University, Hermitage and a Museum in the capital even if you don't get anything else and you should have a fair chance of getting at least one of the Theming Wonders in the capital as well even on Deity.

However, it's still not the best UA out there but as others often point out a Civ is not all about it's UA.

France's new strength lies in the Chateau IMO. It's an incredibly powerful improvement that just gets better as the game goes on. This and the Musketeer are the meat on the bones of France. I think the package as a whole is OK as it is but I wouldn't object to a slight buff to the UA (maybe a bonus to Tourism for all great works in the capital?)
 
Astennu said:
It only applies to their capital, and tourism only has limited uses in boosting other areas besides Culture.
Click to expand...

Doesn't tourism increase science output from influenced trading partners, increase spy efficiency on influenced rivals and reduce/eliminate unrest and population loss from influenced conquered cities? Don't really see how that's limited.
 
I think anyone who doesn't built all of the themeing wonders in a single city is bit of a fool... really.. I mean take the example of Lourve.

Base +4 Themeing bonus from matching it up
+4 from being France (now a total of +8)
Aestethics finisher brings it to a total of (+16)

That's more than Eiffel Tower.
 
Technically, the old UA is still in place and even got stronger. By building enough chateau's one can surpass +2 cpt. Besides, this one will actually last well after steam power. Of course, not getting culture instantly results in a slightly different experience, but i wouldn't go as far as saying it's underwhelming. Tons of "free" culture (later tourism) and a very, very good melee unit.
 
I like playing as France. I usually play on Prince though, where wonder building is easy. You can be rockin @ 50-60 Tourism before any of the late-game modifiers. I also got my only pre T300 victory on diety with them. (cheap diplo, but hey, it was diety)
 
Moriarte said:
Technically, the old UA is still in place and even got stronger. By building enough chateau's one can surpass +2 cpt. Besides, this one will actually last well after steam power. Of course, not getting culture instantly results in a slightly different experience, but i wouldn't go as far as saying it's underwhelming. Tons of "free" culture (later tourism) and a very, very good melee unit.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, it's not there in the early game where is mattered the most.
 
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