zeroRPGmaker
Chieftain
I'll give it a go this weekend. I'll play vanilla and then with your dll and let you know how it goes.
Side comment:
Various mod components + ai buffed is a must!
Buffed AI for BNW
- Thread starter glider1
- Start date
I'll give it a go this weekend. I'll play vanilla and then with your dll and let you know how it goes.
Side comment:
Various mod components + ai buffed is a must!
glider1
Deity
Could you use beta 8 instead? I'm pretty sure beta 7 is too weak on AI science rate. Thanks!
When WHoward releases the code for VMC-V62, I'll do a merge. At the moment, I can only see V60 code available.
When WHoward releases the code for VMC-V62, I'll do a merge. At the moment, I can only see V60 code available.
Indian game (this started on Beta 7 but switched turn 128 to Beta 8). Immortal, Large Islands, standard map size. This also includes the Natural Wonder mod with delayed tech placement of early national wonders, including NC & Circus Maximus
This post covers thru the end of the Midevil era.
Turn 0: I found my capital in place on the River Hill. Global happiness dropped from starting +9 happiness to +3.
Ouch!
Turn 20: My map is now complete of my own "large island", it's actually on the small side. My primary luxury is Truffles, but they all start 3 hexes away from my capital. My secondary luxury is Pearls. 1 site already taken by a city, but it's on the NW corner so it's not killing extra city spots.
In addition to my capital, there is room for 2 more city spots while there's another city spot on one of the tiny islands off the coast, that site has Marble. Some desert and tundra, but highest faith potential is with Stone Circles with 4 tiles with Stone (+ the Marble) near me.
Turn 23: With settler founding needing to be delayed due to starting UA and location of the luxuries, I start construction of the Great Library.
Turn 24: I'm first to a pantheon and pick Stone Circles
Turn 25: I open Tradition. My global happiness is now down to only +1.
Turn 33: I pick Legalism, hopefully this will speed up getting those Truffles within my cultural boundary.
Turn 34: An unmet AI founds junk pantheon (Godess of Protection)
Turn 37: An unmet civ enters the Classical era
Turn 42: I complete Great Library. I picked Drama and Poetry, entering the classical era. (With NC delayed to Education anyway, there was no need to rush to unblock Philosophy and so I researched normal techs.
Turn 43: I pick Monarchy. It only increased global happiness by 1. It must multiply with India's UA instead of adding.
Turn 47: Pearls connected. Global happiness sky rockets from +2 to +6.
Turn 48: An unmet AI founds the Dance of the Aurora pantheon.
Turn 57: I add Landed Elite.
Turn 60: I met Catherine. It's no surprise that she's the one that founded Dance of the Aurora.
Turn 63: An unmet civ founds Protestantism.
Turn 64: I meet the Irq, it turns out that they were the ones that founded Protestantism last turn.
Turn 65: I meet America, they are on the next island east. I like that its them and not some aggressive AI there.
Turn 66: An unmet civ adopts Sacred Path.
Turn 70: Sri Pada discovered, it's right next to Grand River. 4 natural wonders left.
Turn 71: Great Lighthouse completed in a far away land.
Turn 72: Unmet civ enters the classical era.
I add Aristocracy.
Turn 73: First truffles now connected, I can now safely start a settler for a second city.
Turn 74: Washington enters the Classical era.
Turn 75: Who likes to smile most
Me +13, 2 AIs at +3, Irq at +2, Russia at +1, America at 0, 1 AI at -4, and another AI at -8.
Turn 76: Irq and America sign DOF
Turn 77: Washington builds Mas of H.
Turn 79: Catherine completes Temple of Artemis
Russia founds Eastern Orthodoxy
Turn 82: Mt Fuji discovered next to St Petersburg. 3 national wonders left.
Turn 83: Catherine reaches Classical Era.
I met Austria
Turn 86: Irq wants to be friends. OK
Turn 87: America wants to be friends. With them being right next to me, most definitely.
Irq enhances their Protestantism.
I see that the Austrian city of Graz only has 10% health left. They don't appear to currently be at war with anyone, I'm not sure if that was the barbs or if a war had recently ended.
Turn 88: Austria completes Stonehidge
I met Sonhai
Turn 89: I add Oligarchy, closing Tradition.
I found Munbai, my second city on the east coast of my landmass, knocking my global happiness down from +12 to +6.
Please sir, can I have another.
Turn 90: Washington completes T Army
Turn 93: I met Ottomans
Austria adopts religious Idols
Turn 95: Ottomans and Songhai sign peace treaty. I hadn't noticed that they were at war when I met them.
Turn 96: Pyramids built in a far away land.
Turn 97: Great Prophet born. I found Hinduism. Standard Tithe founder belief. I go with Religious Center for first follower for extra happiness from temples, the happiness based religious building beliefs are already gone.
Turn 100: Catherine completes Hanging Gardens
Turn 101: I discover Mt Kul. near a city state. It's in a location that someone much closer to it can found a city to take it in. 2 national wonders left.
Turn 103: I meet Persia. All major civs now discovered and its still the classical era. None of the AIs have any tourism yet.
Turn 105: Irq complete Parthenon. They are actually the first AI to have any tourism.
Turn 108: Austria founds Catholicism.
I found Vijay on an island west of me, knocking my global happiness down from 12 to 6. Thank you sir, can I have another.
Turn 110: Songhai builds Statue of Zeus
Turn 111: It's time to decide a victory to go after with it now being time to open a second tree. With my capital having good production and my other cities being very much on the small side for max population potential, a cultural victory looks better. So I open Aesthetics.
I discover the Crater. It's near a city state but won't ever be taken in culturally by it, so its wide open to settle by someone actually close to it. 1 national wonder remaining.
Turn 119: Washington enters Midevil era.
I enter Midevil era via Civil Service
Beginning of Midevil era Status:
Me: 20 techs. #1 science
Songhai: 18 techs. worst in land area
America: 16 techs. #1 in troops & hapiness. Worst man goods
Russia: 18 techs. #1 population, crops, man goods, and GNP
Irq: 18 techs. only AI with any tourism. Worst population & crops
Ottomans: 16 techs. Worst GNP, approval, and science
Austria: 18 techs.
Persia: 17 techs. #1 in land area
Turn 120: Washington completes Oracle
Russia & Persia enter midevil era.
Turn 121: Austria enters mideveil era.
Turn 125: I met the last undiscovered city state. Austria's not yet married anyone.
Turn 126: Ottomans enter midevil era.
Turn 127: Catherine completes Chicken Itza
Turn 128: Songhai enters mideveil era.
I found Pataliptum, northern city on my landmass. Knocking my global happiness from +14 down to +8. That will complete my city founding unless I find something really good with Astronomy that the AI doesn't found first.
Mod hot patch upgraded to Beta 8
Turn 129: Irq completes Colossus
Turn 130: Austria enhanced Catholicism.
America founds Buddhism.
Austria completes Petra.
Turn 132: Catherine completes Bor.
Turn 133: Ottomans completes Great Wall
Turn 136: Irq enters midevil era
Turn 138: I add Cultural Centers.
GS born -> academy
Turn 144: Russia enhances Eastern Orthodoxy
I enhance my Hinduism. The standard Religious Texts to make my religion more powerful than next door's Buddhism within my own territory. Feed the World chosen as second follower belief with goes well with my first follower.
Turn 145:Ottomans declare war on Songhai
Turn 150 happiness mile post
Catherine +22
Washington +12
Irq +11
Persia +7
Songhai +6
Me +5
Austria +3
Ottomans +1
Turn 152: Ottomans and Songhai sign peace treaty.
Turn 160: Catherine completes A. Wat.
Turn 166: Catherine completes Alh.
Irq completes Great Mosque
GS born, he'll found academy next turn.
I add Fine Arts
Turn 170: Catherine enters Rean era first.
I'm still #1 in science, she's bypassed techs to get a quicker to open Rean era tech.
Turn 174: Austria enters Rean era.
Turn 178: Persia enters Rean era.
Turn 179: Catherine completes Forbidden Palace. Must have been Banking she entered with.
Ottomans declare war on Songhai.
Turn 180: I enter Rean era via Printing Press
Status
Me: 31 techs. I'm #1 in pop & science. I'm friends with America, Washington, Irq, and Persia. (Persia is my other neighbor) Rean era.
Songhai: 26 techs. Worst crops, man good, land, and approval. At war with the Ottomans. Midevil era.
America: 28 techs. Friends with me, Irq., and Persia. Midevil era.
Russia: 28 techs. #1 crops, man goods, land. Friends with me & Irq. Rean era.
Irq: 27 techs. Worst pop. Friends with me, America, and Russia. Midevil era.
Ottomans: 25 techs. Worst GNP & science. At war with Songhai. Midevil era.
Austria: 29 techs. #1 approval. Rean era.
Persia: 29 techs. #1 GNP & troops. Friends with me & America. Rean era.
I'm thinking that Irq, Songhai, and Ottomans have fallen out of the funnel while the others are within it, but Glider can check.
There is 1 natural wonder left to discover.
Screen shot of the sate of the world as I entered Rean era.
This post covers thru the end of the Midevil era.
Turn 0: I found my capital in place on the River Hill. Global happiness dropped from starting +9 happiness to +3.
Ouch! Turn 20: My map is now complete of my own "large island", it's actually on the small side. My primary luxury is Truffles, but they all start 3 hexes away from my capital. My secondary luxury is Pearls. 1 site already taken by a city, but it's on the NW corner so it's not killing extra city spots.
In addition to my capital, there is room for 2 more city spots while there's another city spot on one of the tiny islands off the coast, that site has Marble. Some desert and tundra, but highest faith potential is with Stone Circles with 4 tiles with Stone (+ the Marble) near me.
Turn 23: With settler founding needing to be delayed due to starting UA and location of the luxuries, I start construction of the Great Library.
Turn 24: I'm first to a pantheon and pick Stone Circles
Turn 25: I open Tradition. My global happiness is now down to only +1.
Turn 33: I pick Legalism, hopefully this will speed up getting those Truffles within my cultural boundary.
Turn 34: An unmet AI founds junk pantheon (Godess of Protection)
Turn 37: An unmet civ enters the Classical era
Turn 42: I complete Great Library. I picked Drama and Poetry, entering the classical era. (With NC delayed to Education anyway, there was no need to rush to unblock Philosophy and so I researched normal techs.
Turn 43: I pick Monarchy. It only increased global happiness by 1. It must multiply with India's UA instead of adding.
Turn 47: Pearls connected. Global happiness sky rockets from +2 to +6.
Turn 48: An unmet AI founds the Dance of the Aurora pantheon.
Turn 57: I add Landed Elite.
Turn 60: I met Catherine. It's no surprise that she's the one that founded Dance of the Aurora.
Turn 63: An unmet civ founds Protestantism.
Turn 64: I meet the Irq, it turns out that they were the ones that founded Protestantism last turn.
Turn 65: I meet America, they are on the next island east. I like that its them and not some aggressive AI there.
Turn 66: An unmet civ adopts Sacred Path.
Turn 70: Sri Pada discovered, it's right next to Grand River. 4 natural wonders left.
Turn 71: Great Lighthouse completed in a far away land.
Turn 72: Unmet civ enters the classical era.
I add Aristocracy.
Turn 73: First truffles now connected, I can now safely start a settler for a second city.
Turn 74: Washington enters the Classical era.
Turn 75: Who likes to smile most
Me +13, 2 AIs at +3, Irq at +2, Russia at +1, America at 0, 1 AI at -4, and another AI at -8.
Turn 76: Irq and America sign DOF
Turn 77: Washington builds Mas of H.
Turn 79: Catherine completes Temple of Artemis
Russia founds Eastern Orthodoxy
Turn 82: Mt Fuji discovered next to St Petersburg. 3 national wonders left.
Turn 83: Catherine reaches Classical Era.
I met Austria
Turn 86: Irq wants to be friends. OK
Turn 87: America wants to be friends. With them being right next to me, most definitely.
Irq enhances their Protestantism.
I see that the Austrian city of Graz only has 10% health left. They don't appear to currently be at war with anyone, I'm not sure if that was the barbs or if a war had recently ended.
Turn 88: Austria completes Stonehidge
I met Sonhai
Turn 89: I add Oligarchy, closing Tradition.
I found Munbai, my second city on the east coast of my landmass, knocking my global happiness down from +12 to +6.
Please sir, can I have another.Turn 90: Washington completes T Army
Turn 93: I met Ottomans
Austria adopts religious Idols
Turn 95: Ottomans and Songhai sign peace treaty. I hadn't noticed that they were at war when I met them.
Turn 96: Pyramids built in a far away land.
Turn 97: Great Prophet born. I found Hinduism. Standard Tithe founder belief. I go with Religious Center for first follower for extra happiness from temples, the happiness based religious building beliefs are already gone.
Turn 100: Catherine completes Hanging Gardens
Turn 101: I discover Mt Kul. near a city state. It's in a location that someone much closer to it can found a city to take it in. 2 national wonders left.
Turn 103: I meet Persia. All major civs now discovered and its still the classical era. None of the AIs have any tourism yet.
Turn 105: Irq complete Parthenon. They are actually the first AI to have any tourism.
Turn 108: Austria founds Catholicism.
I found Vijay on an island west of me, knocking my global happiness down from 12 to 6.
Thank you sir, can I have another.Turn 110: Songhai builds Statue of Zeus
Turn 111: It's time to decide a victory to go after with it now being time to open a second tree. With my capital having good production and my other cities being very much on the small side for max population potential, a cultural victory looks better. So I open Aesthetics.
I discover the Crater. It's near a city state but won't ever be taken in culturally by it, so its wide open to settle by someone actually close to it. 1 national wonder remaining.
Turn 119: Washington enters Midevil era.
I enter Midevil era via Civil Service
Beginning of Midevil era Status:
Me: 20 techs. #1 science
Songhai: 18 techs. worst in land area
America: 16 techs. #1 in troops & hapiness. Worst man goods
Russia: 18 techs. #1 population, crops, man goods, and GNP
Irq: 18 techs. only AI with any tourism. Worst population & crops
Ottomans: 16 techs. Worst GNP, approval, and science
Austria: 18 techs.
Persia: 17 techs. #1 in land area
Turn 120: Washington completes Oracle
Russia & Persia enter midevil era.
Turn 121: Austria enters mideveil era.
Turn 125: I met the last undiscovered city state. Austria's not yet married anyone.
Turn 126: Ottomans enter midevil era.
Turn 127: Catherine completes Chicken Itza
Turn 128: Songhai enters mideveil era.
I found Pataliptum, northern city on my landmass. Knocking my global happiness from +14 down to +8. That will complete my city founding unless I find something really good with Astronomy that the AI doesn't found first.
Mod hot patch upgraded to Beta 8
Turn 129: Irq completes Colossus
Turn 130: Austria enhanced Catholicism.
America founds Buddhism.
Austria completes Petra.
Turn 132: Catherine completes Bor.
Turn 133: Ottomans completes Great Wall
Turn 136: Irq enters midevil era
Turn 138: I add Cultural Centers.
GS born -> academy
Turn 144: Russia enhances Eastern Orthodoxy
I enhance my Hinduism. The standard Religious Texts to make my religion more powerful than next door's Buddhism within my own territory. Feed the World chosen as second follower belief with goes well with my first follower.
Turn 145:Ottomans declare war on Songhai
Turn 150 happiness mile post
Catherine +22
Washington +12
Irq +11
Persia +7
Songhai +6
Me +5
Austria +3
Ottomans +1
Turn 152: Ottomans and Songhai sign peace treaty.
Turn 160: Catherine completes A. Wat.
Turn 166: Catherine completes Alh.
Irq completes Great Mosque
GS born, he'll found academy next turn.
I add Fine Arts
Turn 170: Catherine enters Rean era first.
I'm still #1 in science, she's bypassed techs to get a quicker to open Rean era tech.
Turn 174: Austria enters Rean era.
Turn 178: Persia enters Rean era.
Turn 179: Catherine completes Forbidden Palace. Must have been Banking she entered with.
Ottomans declare war on Songhai.
Turn 180: I enter Rean era via Printing Press
Status
Me: 31 techs. I'm #1 in pop & science. I'm friends with America, Washington, Irq, and Persia. (Persia is my other neighbor) Rean era.
Songhai: 26 techs. Worst crops, man good, land, and approval. At war with the Ottomans. Midevil era.
America: 28 techs. Friends with me, Irq., and Persia. Midevil era.
Russia: 28 techs. #1 crops, man goods, land. Friends with me & Irq. Rean era.
Irq: 27 techs. Worst pop. Friends with me, America, and Russia. Midevil era.
Ottomans: 25 techs. Worst GNP & science. At war with Songhai. Midevil era.
Austria: 29 techs. #1 approval. Rean era.
Persia: 29 techs. #1 GNP & troops. Friends with me & America. Rean era.
I'm thinking that Irq, Songhai, and Ottomans have fallen out of the funnel while the others are within it, but Glider can check.
There is 1 natural wonder left to discover.
Screen shot of the sate of the world as I entered Rean era.
Attachments
zeroRPGmaker
Chieftain
Yeah, of course. I will use latest version released.
glider1
Deity
Thanks Zero, the main reason is that I doubt that there is much more that can be done about adaptive buffing to the science rate. Beta #8 is probably about it.
Joncnunn, great to see you making mistakes. I blunder as well and it is sign that the game is a challenge. How did the AI get to -8 unhappiness at turn 75? Good to see that they recovered at least? At -8 they will be getting very little adaptive buff. If they can stabilise and fix their happiness, the adaptive tech funnel will pull them back in.
To know if the AI is in the tech funnel, you convert their age into a number. Ancient=1, Classical=2, Medieval=3 etc. Looking at your game now, everyone is in the funnel except Ottomans, Irq and Songhai (but might have misread). The strength of the pull back in AI science also increases with age and is in a squared relationship getting stronger as each age passes.
I think there is a possibility that the AI is struggling a little bit in early population gain, but haven't played enough games to know. It could be because I have told the AI that it doesn't need to think about building as many workers, because they improve really well and unlike the base game, they guard their workers a bit better. Hmmmm....
Joncnunn, great to see you making mistakes. I blunder as well and it is sign that the game is a challenge. How did the AI get to -8 unhappiness at turn 75? Good to see that they recovered at least? At -8 they will be getting very little adaptive buff. If they can stabilise and fix their happiness, the adaptive tech funnel will pull them back in.
To know if the AI is in the tech funnel, you convert their age into a number. Ancient=1, Classical=2, Medieval=3 etc. Looking at your game now, everyone is in the funnel except Ottomans, Irq and Songhai (but might have misread). The strength of the pull back in AI science also increases with age and is in a squared relationship getting stronger as each age passes.
I think there is a possibility that the AI is struggling a little bit in early population gain, but haven't played enough games to know. It could be because I have told the AI that it doesn't need to think about building as many workers, because they improve really well and unlike the base game, they guard their workers a bit better. Hmmmm....
glider1
Deity
TIP: To anyone trying V18 beta 8 for the first time, because you are not playing catch up with the AI nearly as much, you don't have to always prioritise National College and Oxford like in the base game. A high population strategy works as well if not better to keep competitive with science, but is also more risky. It depends on the situation with your neighbours and whether they see you as a target.
EDIT: if anything, a high population strategy might be too good, because the AI doesn't prioritise it enough (just not sure yet).
EDIT: if anything, a high population strategy might be too good, because the AI doesn't prioritise it enough (just not sure yet).
I don't know, I hadn't even met the AIs with -4 & -8 by turn 75 yet.
There is some evidence to support being Ottomans & Songhai (either order) since those 2 AIs have had multiple wars since I did discover them and both are bringing up the rear in techs even now, but as you can see from that screenshot, the only city within the Songhai I had visibility to pre Astronomy was their capital and that was from embassy, it would probably have been possible to sail there as well but as you can see I had chosen different scouting paths before they headed home to be in position to upgrade to Caravels.
glider1
Deity
Your city of Dehli is a mega city absolutely stunning, with a 25 pop city. You have both high fertility and hills. Also, you are within two tiles of a mountain. I cannot see how the AI is going to compete with you but I hope they will at least give you a challenge!
EDIT: your game is not a pure V18 beta 8 game, but should be close enough to get an idea of how it is going.
EDIT: your game is not a pure V18 beta 8 game, but should be close enough to get an idea of how it is going.
Rean era continuation of above game
Turn 181: I found World Congress
I propose the standard Arts Funding first for when seeking Cultural Victory. Russia & Persia love the idea while Irq hate it.
Food is enough of a problem for Mumbai (that eastern city), that I'm now chopping the forest underneath the 2 camps. +1 food -1 production each.
Turn 182: Russia proposed World's Fair. That is a full council early, but can't be helped.
Turn 184: Washington enters Rean era
Turn 185: GP born, he'll be sent to fulfill 4 of those city state requests to convert to Hinduism.
Turn 186: Ottomans & Songhai sign peace treaty.
Turn 187: I complete the first copy of my UB in this game. This is much earlier than I would normally build the base building.
Turn 188: Irq enters the Rean era
Turn 190: America finally connects an additional Whale so I can trade my last spare Truffles for another luxury.
I open Rationalism, it currently being more important to open it than continue with Aesthetics.
Turn 192: Ottomans enter Rean era
Turn 193: Persia completes Notre Dame
Turn 195: Ottomans declare war on a city state. That's going to make them very unpopular with the other AIs.
GS born, it will build an academy next turn.
Turn 197: I complete Leaning Tower -> GE
Turn 198: Globe Theater completed with above GE
Turn 200: "Unidentified spy" stole Acoustics. Probably the Russians.
Turn 201: Songhai enters Rean era
Turn 202: Ottomans sign peace treaty with that city state.
Turn 203: I discover the Rock of G, it's within the cultural boundary of a currently unknown Ottoman city that I'll find soon. No more natural wonders left to find.
Turn 205: Ottomans declare war on Songhai.
Austria completes Macuha Picca
Russia colonizes Persia's starting land mass. I don't like that city being so close to me but AI Persia will absolutely hate it.
Turn 208: Austria marries Sidon, the city state on their starting landmass.
Turn 209: Russia declares war on Irq.
RA completes
Turn 210: I resume Aesthetics by adding Flourishing of the Arts, this extends an ongoing natural Golden Age.
Turn 211: Austria marries Ur. This was on the landmass south of there's. Russia was settled so widely that this brings their borders into contact.
RA completes. I'm first to enter the Industrial era via Scientific Theory
Beginning of Industrial era status:
Me: 37 techs. #1 in population, approval, and science
Songhai: 31 techs. Worst crops, man. goods, land, and science. At war with Ottomans
America: 34 techs. Worst in the world approval rating at 39%. Friends with me, Irq., and Persia
Russia: 35 techs. #1 in everything that I'm not in. At war with Irq. Friends with me.
Irq: 33 techs. Worst population. At war with Russia. Friends with me.
Ottomans: 32 techs. At war with Songhai.
Austria: 34 techs.
Persia: 34 techs. Friends with me & America.
At this point it looks like most of the AIs are within the funnel, but I'm the one who bypassed the techs this time, so things could quickly change when I go catch up on those techs. (Most of them do in fact fall out of in during the next 14 turns)
Thanks to Austria, there are now only 6 of the starting 8 city states left in the game.
Attached is the beginning of the Industrial era screenshot.
Attachments
glider1
Deity
It does look grim for the AI with your city of Dehli already close to 30 pop which is the equivalent of three cities but without the risk (you had an amazingly good start location). Not sure what to do. I mean your city of Dehli is in a sheltered cove and cannot even be attacked but with one ship at a time and you have no terrestrial neighbours. I'm not sure how the AI can compete with that 
It does look grim for the AI with your city of Dehli already close to 30 pop which is the equivalent of three cities but without the risk (you had an amazingly good start location). Not sure what to do. I mean your city of Dehli is in a sheltered cove and cannot even be attacked but with one ship at a time and you have no terrestrial neighbours. I'm not sure how the AI can compete with that
Against a human with this position, you'd need to take down Mumbai first (the city to the east). In fact it may be best to have an ally and have them take down my Island city to the west at the same time your attacking Mumbai.
Against the poor AI though, Frigates with range promotions can probably eventually take Delhi in a strategic strike. Battleships would be preferred. An artillery unit can be set up on the Truffles on the two tile island as well.
Industrial era continuation of the same game
Turn 212 Arts Funding fails 5-4. Russia, who had loved the idea when first proposed used all three of their votes to vote it down.
Worlds Fair fails 1-1.
Not having the votes for Arts Failing, I propose World's Fair.
Turn 213: Russia proposed Eastern Orthodoxy as the Worlds Religion. The other AIs aren't going to like that.
Turn 215: Austria wants to be friends. Why not?
Turn 216: Ottomans steal Astronomy.
Turn 217: Persia completes Sistine Chapel.
Turn 219: RA completes
Turn 220: Ottomans and Songhai sign peace treaty.
Turn 222: I add Cultural Exchange.
Turn 223: Washington completes Himeji Castle
I complete Uffizini
Turn 225: With my first faith based GE, I build the Taj Mahal, further extending my GA
Turn 230: Russia completes PT. They now have one sub policy into Rationalism, looks like they only had the opener six turns back and so it didn't show up.
Russia enters Industrial era
I now have Fertilizer, which will help Vijay and Mumbai.
Turn 231: Ottomans declare war on Russia
Turn 232: I add Artistic Genus, completing Aesthetics
Turn 233: America enters Industrial Era
Turn 234: GS born, he'll build an academy next turn.
Turn 235: Persia enters Industrial Era
World Congress Welcomes City States
I vote for myself, I have no shot, but could throw it to anyone else, but if I do that Russia would be able to propose resolutions anyway. I have a better shot at regaining ability to propose resolutions if Russia is the host than anyone else.
Turn 236: As expected, all AIs vote for themselves and Russia becomes host. I'm now 3rd in vote count but only need to add one more city state ally to regain ability to make resolutions, as an alternative if Austria marries one of their city states I'll also regain this ability.
Turn 238: My long Golden Age finally comes to an end.
Turn 241: Russia completes Red Fort
RA completes
Turn 242: Ottomans and Russia sign peace treaty.
I add secularism.
Oxford completes. I pick Radio to advance to Modern Era.
Beginning of Modern era status:
Me: 46 techs. #1 pop, approval, and science.
Songhai: 37 techs. Worst crops & land. Rean era.
America: 41 techs. Worst GNP. Industrial era
Russia: 42 techs. #1 crops, man goods, land. Industrial era
Irq: 39 techs. Worst pop, man goods. Rean. era
Ottomans: 36 techs. #1 troops. Worst approval & science. Rean. era
Austria: 39 techs. Rean. era
Persia: 40 techs. #1 GNP. Industrial era
At a glance it looks like the AIs in the Industrial era are within the tech funnel and the ones in the Rean era are outside it.
Russia & Irq are currently at war.
Russia has the most culture for me to overcome for a cultural victory.
Beginning of Modern Era map
Turn 212 Arts Funding fails 5-4. Russia, who had loved the idea when first proposed used all three of their votes to vote it down.
Worlds Fair fails 1-1.
Not having the votes for Arts Failing, I propose World's Fair.
Turn 213: Russia proposed Eastern Orthodoxy as the Worlds Religion. The other AIs aren't going to like that.
Turn 215: Austria wants to be friends. Why not?
Turn 216: Ottomans steal Astronomy.
Turn 217: Persia completes Sistine Chapel.
Turn 219: RA completes
Turn 220: Ottomans and Songhai sign peace treaty.
Turn 222: I add Cultural Exchange.
Turn 223: Washington completes Himeji Castle
I complete Uffizini
Turn 225: With my first faith based GE, I build the Taj Mahal, further extending my GA
Turn 230: Russia completes PT. They now have one sub policy into Rationalism, looks like they only had the opener six turns back and so it didn't show up.
Russia enters Industrial era
I now have Fertilizer, which will help Vijay and Mumbai.
Turn 231: Ottomans declare war on Russia
Turn 232: I add Artistic Genus, completing Aesthetics
Turn 233: America enters Industrial Era
Turn 234: GS born, he'll build an academy next turn.
Turn 235: Persia enters Industrial Era
World Congress Welcomes City States
I vote for myself, I have no shot, but could throw it to anyone else, but if I do that Russia would be able to propose resolutions anyway. I have a better shot at regaining ability to propose resolutions if Russia is the host than anyone else.
Turn 236: As expected, all AIs vote for themselves and Russia becomes host. I'm now 3rd in vote count but only need to add one more city state ally to regain ability to make resolutions, as an alternative if Austria marries one of their city states I'll also regain this ability.
Turn 238: My long Golden Age finally comes to an end.
Turn 241: Russia completes Red Fort
RA completes
Turn 242: Ottomans and Russia sign peace treaty.
I add secularism.
Oxford completes. I pick Radio to advance to Modern Era.
Beginning of Modern era status:
Me: 46 techs. #1 pop, approval, and science.
Songhai: 37 techs. Worst crops & land. Rean era.
America: 41 techs. Worst GNP. Industrial era
Russia: 42 techs. #1 crops, man goods, land. Industrial era
Irq: 39 techs. Worst pop, man goods. Rean. era
Ottomans: 36 techs. #1 troops. Worst approval & science. Rean. era
Austria: 39 techs. Rean. era
Persia: 40 techs. #1 GNP. Industrial era
At a glance it looks like the AIs in the Industrial era are within the tech funnel and the ones in the Rean era are outside it.
Russia & Irq are currently at war.
Russia has the most culture for me to overcome for a cultural victory.
Beginning of Modern Era map
Attachments
glider1
Deity
Yes some of those AI's are in the tech funnel, but if they have low pop or are unhappy, the benefit is not going to be all that big. Your happiness is ridiculously good, is that because you are able to ally a lot of CS?
To add flavour to the game, I was thinking about changing the AI's voting behaviour in the congress so that weak AI's would vote for their allies instead of themselves. However, I can't just make it a blanket rule, there has to be valid exceptions. Any ideas on a reasonable algorithm? What Firaxis tend to do if they can't think of an algorithm, is to randomise it so that most of the time AI's vote for themselves, but sometimes votes for the allies
To add flavour to the game, I was thinking about changing the AI's voting behaviour in the congress so that weak AI's would vote for their allies instead of themselves. However, I can't just make it a blanket rule, there has to be valid exceptions. Any ideas on a reasonable algorithm? What Firaxis tend to do if they can't think of an algorithm, is to randomise it so that most of the time AI's vote for themselves, but sometimes votes for the allies
I wish, I lost control of the world council when the World Council welcomed city states because I didn't have enough allies.Pop based unhappiness as India is .5 in most cities, .25 in the capital with Monarchy.
Universal Sufferance has always had internal per city rounding so it's weirder than normal for India, but it would mean that 8 specialists in the capital with Monarchy would produce only 1 unhappiness and 4 specialists in a single non capital city would produce only 1 unhappiness, but that's not until my Modern era post.
World's Fair won't be a factor until Modern era post either.
I can definitely support more cities, but there's really no empty territory near me that's good (north of me the landmasses are nothing but ice. My army isn't big enough to go on a conquest spree, but my two neighbors are my friends anyway now that Persia conquered the city that Russia had planted on Persia's starting landmass.)
Modern era continuation of same game
Turn 243: I adopt Freedom and pick Avant Garde & Civil Society as the early adopter tenets.
Turn 244: I figure the world will vote down the world religion proposal anyway and use all my votes to vote for the Worlds Fair
Turn 245: World Religion fails 10 - 4
Worlds Fair passes 11 - 0
Turn 246: Russia proposes Science Funding
Austria proposes Embargo on City states.
Russia denounces Ottomans
Irq and Austria sign RA
Austria enters Industrial Era
Turn 247: Persia declares war on Russia
Ottomans denounce Russia
Turn 248: Persia captures Krasnoy.
That is the city that Russia had colonized Persia's starting landmass with.
Turn 249: Irq enters Industrial era
Turn 251: Russia completes Branders Gate
Turn 253: Russia and Persia sign peace treaty. Good war for Persia.
I add Universal Suffrage
Turn 254: I host the World's Fair. I pick Creative Expression. I also got enough points on the GA counter to start a GA next turn.
GS born -> Will build an academy in 2 turns
Turn 258: New Deal added
Turn 261: RA completes
Turn 262: Media Culture added
Turn 263: Persia completes Louvre. Doesn't matter, there are NO sites anywhere near me that aren't in someone elses territory.
I build Eiffel Tower via natural born GE
Turn 264: Ottomans enter Industrial era
Turn 265: I bulb the GW just born (double culture while hosting worlds fair in the middle of a GA was too good not to) Soverity & Scientific Revolution added
Turn 267: Russia enters modern era
2 RAs complete.
Turn 268: Songhai denounces Ottomans
Russia adopts Order, they have dissidents.
(-14 from them since they have 14 cities, this causes their happiness to drop to -9)
Turn 269: Russia denounces me
I denounce Russia.
Turn 270: America adopts order, they have dissidents However their overall happiness is still positive.
I use all my votes to vote against science funding.
Turn 271: Austria denounces Russia
Science Funding passes 11 - 10
Embargo City states passes 4 - 0
I propose International Games
I add Humanism
Turn 272: Russia proposes World Ideology of Order.
Turn 273: Russia denounces Austria
Turn 275: I use second faith based GE to build Broadway
GS born -> bulbed
Turn 277: Austria & Ottomans sign RA
Turn 279 Ottomans declare war on Songhai
Turn 283: Russia conquests the SW city on Irq starting landmass. They are razing it to the ground
I add Free Thought, completing Rationalism.
I choose Penicillin entering the Atomic Era
Beginning of Atomic Era status:
Me: 58 techs. #1 in approval & tech
Songhai: 43 techs. worst GNP. Industrial Era
America: 46 techs. Order, but has dissidents. Overall happiness is now -1. Industrial era
Russia: 52 techs. Order, but has dissidents. Overall hapiness is now -14. #1 land & troops. Worst happiness. Modern Era
Irq: 46 techs. Worst population, crops, man goods, and troops. Industrial Era
Ottomans 43 techs. Industrial Era
Austria: 47 techs. Industrial Era
Persia: 46 techs. #1 population, crops, manufacturing goods, and GNP. Industrial Era
Ottomans are currently at war with Songhai
Russia is currently at war with Irq
Russia has the most culture to overcome.
Russia appears to be the only civ still in the funnel, but they are experiencing major happiness issues.
Screenshot of beginning of Atomic Era
Also, I was looking around the map, a lot of capitals are in coves on this map, it's not just mine. Appears to have just worked out that way when the script was placing the starting settlers.
Turn 243: I adopt Freedom and pick Avant Garde & Civil Society as the early adopter tenets.
Turn 244: I figure the world will vote down the world religion proposal anyway and use all my votes to vote for the Worlds Fair
Turn 245: World Religion fails 10 - 4
Worlds Fair passes 11 - 0
Turn 246: Russia proposes Science Funding
Austria proposes Embargo on City states.
Russia denounces Ottomans
Irq and Austria sign RA
Austria enters Industrial Era
Turn 247: Persia declares war on Russia
Ottomans denounce Russia
Turn 248: Persia captures Krasnoy.
That is the city that Russia had colonized Persia's starting landmass with.Turn 249: Irq enters Industrial era
Turn 251: Russia completes Branders Gate
Turn 253: Russia and Persia sign peace treaty. Good war for Persia.
I add Universal Suffrage
Turn 254: I host the World's Fair. I pick Creative Expression. I also got enough points on the GA counter to start a GA next turn.
GS born -> Will build an academy in 2 turns
Turn 258: New Deal added
Turn 261: RA completes
Turn 262: Media Culture added
Turn 263: Persia completes Louvre. Doesn't matter, there are NO sites anywhere near me that aren't in someone elses territory.
I build Eiffel Tower via natural born GE
Turn 264: Ottomans enter Industrial era
Turn 265: I bulb the GW just born (double culture while hosting worlds fair in the middle of a GA was too good not to) Soverity & Scientific Revolution added
Turn 267: Russia enters modern era
2 RAs complete.
Turn 268: Songhai denounces Ottomans
Russia adopts Order, they have dissidents.
(-14 from them since they have 14 cities, this causes their happiness to drop to -9)Turn 269: Russia denounces me
I denounce Russia.
Turn 270: America adopts order, they have dissidents
However their overall happiness is still positive.I use all my votes to vote against science funding.
Turn 271: Austria denounces Russia
Science Funding passes 11 - 10
Embargo City states passes 4 - 0
I propose International Games
I add Humanism
Turn 272: Russia proposes World Ideology of Order.
Turn 273: Russia denounces Austria
Turn 275: I use second faith based GE to build Broadway
GS born -> bulbed
Turn 277: Austria & Ottomans sign RA
Turn 279 Ottomans declare war on Songhai
Turn 283: Russia conquests the SW city on Irq starting landmass. They are razing it to the ground
I add Free Thought, completing Rationalism.
I choose Penicillin entering the Atomic Era
Beginning of Atomic Era status:
Me: 58 techs. #1 in approval & tech
Songhai: 43 techs. worst GNP. Industrial Era
America: 46 techs. Order, but has dissidents. Overall happiness is now -1. Industrial era
Russia: 52 techs. Order, but has dissidents. Overall hapiness is now -14. #1 land & troops. Worst happiness. Modern Era
Irq: 46 techs. Worst population, crops, man goods, and troops. Industrial Era
Ottomans 43 techs. Industrial Era
Austria: 47 techs. Industrial Era
Persia: 46 techs. #1 population, crops, manufacturing goods, and GNP. Industrial Era
Ottomans are currently at war with Songhai
Russia is currently at war with Irq
Russia has the most culture to overcome.
Russia appears to be the only civ still in the funnel, but they are experiencing major happiness issues.
Screenshot of beginning of Atomic Era
Also, I was looking around the map, a lot of capitals are in coves on this map, it's not just mine. Appears to have just worked out that way when the script was placing the starting settlers.
Attachments
glider1
Deity
I think I know what to do. You have avoided the negative diplomatic modifiers for rapid wide expansion, by expanding rapidly tall instead. Why are the AI's not pissed by the fact that you grew to a size 25 city by the renaissance?
EDIT:
I think I will make it so that the AI thinks just as negatively about rapid tall expansion, as rapid wide expansion. I actually cannot believe that this is not already implemented in the code?? Would not a human player respond if they saw a player rapidly pop growing?
Here is a table of Jocnunn's growth in Dehli thanks to his posts above:
Turn - Growth
180 - 25 pop (rapid growth)
211 - 29 pop
242 - 32 pop
283 - 34 pop (growth has tapered off)
What I think I will do is implement a duplicate of almost the same code that already exists for wide expansion and apply it to a tall check that triggers the reckless expansion diplo modifier. For wide expansion, the AI already gets upset if the player has 1.5 times the average number of cities. So for tall expansion, make the AI get upset if the player has X times the average population.
Question is what should the value of X be?
The change should be simple, because it all happens in the function:
CvDiplomacyAI::IsPlayerRecklessExpander(PlayerTypes ePlayer)
EDIT:
I think I will make it so that the AI thinks just as negatively about rapid tall expansion, as rapid wide expansion. I actually cannot believe that this is not already implemented in the code?? Would not a human player respond if they saw a player rapidly pop growing?
Here is a table of Jocnunn's growth in Dehli thanks to his posts above:
Turn - Growth
180 - 25 pop (rapid growth)
211 - 29 pop
242 - 32 pop
283 - 34 pop (growth has tapered off)
What I think I will do is implement a duplicate of almost the same code that already exists for wide expansion and apply it to a tall check that triggers the reckless expansion diplo modifier. For wide expansion, the AI already gets upset if the player has 1.5 times the average number of cities. So for tall expansion, make the AI get upset if the player has X times the average population.
Question is what should the value of X be?
The change should be simple, because it all happens in the function:
CvDiplomacyAI::IsPlayerRecklessExpander(PlayerTypes ePlayer)
glider1
Deity
Ok, I've written and tested the new code. V18 beta #9 will have the new diplomatic modifier:
"They believe we are populating the region recklessly!"
"They believe we are populating the region recklessly!"
This is probably an extreme case, in addition to the terrain being so nice for food in my capital, I was initially running 3 food cargo routes to Delhi. The main reason growth has gone down so much is that I later switched 1 of the routes to production followed even later by switching a second to better support world wonder construction after I had enough population to work all land tiles + support all future science & engineer specialist slots. I may even switch the last one over, but if & when I do that the city will never grow again.
Honestly I don't think that the developers thought of it. The too widely diplomatic penalty has been in the game since the beginning, but this amount of explosive growth only became possible with BNW and food cargo ship routes.
(It would be a good idea to eliminate the doubling of food & hammers for cargo ships compared to caravans, but I don't know how difficult that would be.)
What I'm actually though instead of AI calculating the average size cities and getting upset with those with a ratio above that it should instead add up the total population of all cities and get upset if the only players ratio of total population is too much above it own. (But also add a sanity check, that the AI will only get mad if it has the troop strength to do something about it. [You really don't want an AI reduced to an involuntary OCC to go denouncing the whole world])
Why not try X as 1.5 initially, but only have them express it if their military troop count is at least as large the person they are complaining to? [If this comes into play too often, the next value to try is 1.75; if not enough then 1.25]
glider1
Deity
Great! Firaxis already do include the military check for their weak exploitable version of the code, and I have included it as well. I decided on 1.5 initially (which is what Firaxis were hinting at). I suspect that it is not going to be a big factor for AI's, but big for humans! I made it 1.5 for the AI but reduce the ratio for humans by difficulty level, so that:
king = 1.25
emp = 1.15
imm = 1.11
dei = 1.07
I do this because humans are so much better at playing tall (we know exactly when it is ok to downsize military and turn trade routes inward) and so the AI's need to be wary of us. The really special thing about this diplo modifier, is that it can trigger later, not just early in the game. It should spice things up a bit.
EDIT: The point is that the diplo modifier operates much like the original. It won't kick in if the player keeps their military capacity on par with their neighbours. It won't affect wide playing AI's that usually have a significant military. I wonder if it could still be possible to grow these super cities in BNW anyway by keeping a handle on military parity?
Hum, maybe those "Your spreading too widely" modifiers should also apply early for humans as well?
(So if playing on King you'd get that modifer if you have more than 1.25 times the number of cities.)
Now if a human manages to get both a lot of cities and them also tall, he'll have the AIs upset with him for both reasons unless he has enough troops.
My game is now completed. It started becoming boring during my Atomic Era due to how far ahead I was.
I'm thinking the funnel needs to grow faster than 1:1 per era, maybe truncate (1.5 * era number). If ancient is considered era 0 instead of era 1, add 1 to the era number before multiplying by 1.5.
The AI to AI RA bonus needs to stay in, and also apply to those below the funnel to give them a shot at getting back into it.
The most interesting thing is that the American city of New York revolted to me, this was the turn after I became influencial over the Americans and so it came out of resistance only two turns later, following which I annexed it. It carried with it several great works which by relocating (and in one case trading) considerably boosted my tourism. America revolted to Freedom shortly after this.
Cultural Victory on turn 330. (1910 AD), this was 5 turns after the closing ceremonies of the Olympics and that bonus went away.
This was NOT induced by Great Musicans as not a single one spawned during (or even after) I hosted the Olympics. (That Science Funding proposal I wasn't able to vote down hurt that spawn rate)
It was instead helped by Great Scientists bulbing to the Internet. (Now how that internet works without Computers I don't know), following which thanks to their increased spawn rate from science funding I basically got every key mlitary tech except for Stealth aircraft before the game ended.
I also ended up towards the very end firing all merchants from Delhi as it was about to spawn an unwanted Great Merchant.
I hosted the Olympics by a 200 hammer margin (1800-something to 1600-something by Persia), America got screwed by being 7 hammers short of the threshold for Silver.
Abe Lincoln level.
(So if playing on King you'd get that modifer if you have more than 1.25 times the number of cities.)
Now if a human manages to get both a lot of cities and them also tall, he'll have the AIs upset with him for both reasons unless he has enough troops.
My game is now completed. It started becoming boring during my Atomic Era due to how far ahead I was.
I'm thinking the funnel needs to grow faster than 1:1 per era, maybe truncate (1.5 * era number). If ancient is considered era 0 instead of era 1, add 1 to the era number before multiplying by 1.5.
The AI to AI RA bonus needs to stay in, and also apply to those below the funnel to give them a shot at getting back into it.
The most interesting thing is that the American city of New York revolted to me, this was the turn after I became influencial over the Americans and so it came out of resistance only two turns later, following which I annexed it. It carried with it several great works which by relocating (and in one case trading) considerably boosted my tourism. America revolted to Freedom shortly after this.
Cultural Victory on turn 330. (1910 AD), this was 5 turns after the closing ceremonies of the Olympics and that bonus went away.
This was NOT induced by Great Musicans as not a single one spawned during (or even after) I hosted the Olympics. (That Science Funding proposal I wasn't able to vote down hurt that spawn rate)
It was instead helped by Great Scientists bulbing to the Internet. (Now how that internet works without Computers I don't know), following which thanks to their increased spawn rate from science funding I basically got every key mlitary tech except for Stealth aircraft before the game ended.
I also ended up towards the very end firing all merchants from Delhi as it was about to spawn an unwanted Great Merchant.
I hosted the Olympics by a 200 hammer margin (1800-something to 1600-something by Persia), America got screwed by being 7 hammers short of the threshold for Silver.
Abe Lincoln level.
