The Ancient Mediterranean MOD

The Green Man
Briton.gif

Why simplify? ;)
(Image is greener in game , contrast altered for forum clarity)

Flags do not have to be two color. As far as mods go I would say better they are not in fact..after all it is a mod
 
thamis said:

Can I possibly suggest either spinning each religion off into its own 'tech, with the first civ researching it being the founder, or assigning the religions from the game start?

If this is to be a 're-creation' of what could have logically been, then we would see a few distinct traditions: Zoroastrianism (Babylon, etc.), Greco-Roman pantheon (Greece, Rome), Animism (Germanics), Druidism (Gauls, Britons, Iberians), the Egyptian pantheon (Egypt, Nubia), the Phoenecian pantheon (Phonecia, Carthage) and Judaism (Israel). There is nothing that says that these faiths, if they exist from game start, have to belong to only one nation or have a 'holy' city. Christianity should still be researched, and would have a founding city as per normal rules though.

Just a few cents' worth...
 
thamis said:

- I would invert Map Making with Sailing, not really for realism but for gameplay purpouse. E.g. your civ doesn't have access to sea hence it doesn't need Sailing but will still need Map Making. Of course invert the prereq. for Seafaring.
- I would add in the first line Fishing to work in the same way of the epic game and make it prereq. for Sailing.
- I would make Pottery lead to Mysticism rather than Agriculture, and maybe to compensate Agriculture to lead to Cuneiform.
- Chariots should need Animal Husbandry, but I guess this is implicit if Chariots will need horses.
- I would change name from Alphabet to Writing.
- Lastly I think Architecture sorta needs Mathematics, unless you want those 2 main branches to stay indipendent from each other for gameplay reasons.
- I will stay away from the religion discussion, though for gameplay balance, the first religion seems to come in a bit too early.
 
Breunor said:
Sorry Last,

I wouldn't use them. The 'Neo-Babylonians' were the Chaldaens. The ancient Babylonians represented for msot of the game, like Hammarabi, were the original Amorites. It was really a different civilization in a lot of ways.
The kings were of Chaldaean descent, but they achieved power by convincing the traditional (Akkadian-speaking or at least Akkadian-writing) élites of the Babylonian cities to chose them over the Assyrians, used Akkadian for official inscriptions, and called their kingdom "Sumer and Akkad". I think there's about as much continuity one can ask for over the relevant times.

Oh, and Nabopolassar certainly was more of a Babylonian than Sargon II was!

Now, if Thamis prefers, I can certainly dig up hero-names from the Amorite and Kassite periods too.
 
onedreamer said:
- I would change name from Alphabet to Writing.
I wouldn't - having Cuneiform as a prereq for Writing would give me a migraine.

You might want to change Cuneiform to Writing tho - more generic. Or call it Logograms; fits with leading to Alphabet, and still more generic than Cuneiform.
 
Well I comment you a bit of things of the mod.

I'm playing with Iberian Tribes and in the first contact with the gauls appears this message : AI_CONTACT_FIRST_DIPLO_LEADER_GAUL.

PD: I'll edit if y found another strange thing.
 
@EdCase: Awesome! Can you send me the dds, or can you just put it into the XML and do some other flags, too?

@Sword Dancer: Actually it might be a good idea to assign religions to their respective civilizations. But then, gameplay-wise, there's less of the race for religions... Hmm...

@Onedreamer: The original fishing is a good idea. I prefer to have map making after Sailing, though. My philosophy in the design of the tech tree is that in order to get good stuff, you sometimes have to go down a route that you don't really need. I did the same for TAM-CIV3.

Architecture with Mathematics is good. I think Agriculture as requrrement for Mysticism is better than Pottery. You need to have time to sit down and think to mysticize around. ;)

You're right. Aesir shouldn't come with the first tech. I guess Thing Law would be better here.

TLC: To be honest, I don't really mind who is picked as hero. The most important thing is that he is a known character in history.

Logograms is good.

@Spirit_Viriato

Interesting. I had hoped that this doesn't happen. Please check if that's also the case in the new version. The DiplomacyInfos.XML is very very complicated... :(
 
Yeah, in other versions all were good. In this version (0.8) not only are with Gauls, in 3 or 4 four civilizations past the same ( I remember one Kolchi).
 
@ Thamis ...I will e-mail it to you and will continue to work on others as time permits (crazy workload in RL atm:sad: )
 
thamis said:

Why does the religions come after agriculture? The Aman Re Cult I can see, its egyptian which was pretty agriculture nile based. But the others werent.

Aman Re Cult and Zeus Cult? Maybe its just me but the word cult throws an image of weaker religious status. Why not Olympian parthenon and Nile Parthenon. Geographical location is a little unrealistic but I dont see the difference if the gauls can found the worship of zeus.

Thing Law? Is this a placeholder for something?

I'd move the anu cult to ceremonial burial if for no other reason then to help prevent 1 state from founding 2 religions in a row and hogging them. I really hate when the computer does that.

The more techs the better and especially since we wont have a lot of the later ones I would like this expanded on more.
Alchemy -> Concrete.
Architecture -> Bridge Building -> Superior Roads (+1 road movement since we wont get the regular tech that does it should be unbalancing)

I'd remove the Ceremonial prereq from Music. Doesnt seem logical.
 
@Ed: Thanks, got the file.

@Rhianni:Yea, I've been thinking about how to name the religions a lot. Olympian Pantheon is just so long... :(

If I move Anu to Ceremonial Burial, then they can immediately found Zeus with Priesthood. How about Anu with Masonry (requires the construction of Ziggurats)?

Concrete? They didn't have concrete back then, did they?

The Superior Roads are a good idea. I'll call the tech Construction though.

I put the Ceremonial Burial tech because Music was first performed in religious ceremonies, just like dance. Music, singing, and dance were all part of magic in the early stages of human civilization.
 
Ok, I've modified the tech tree Thamis posted, based on a tech tree I did a while ago.

I've added a bit more techs, especially warfare techs, it was a bit lacking. I also played around with prereqs and such after some research on the net, but some still feels wrong. It's a lot more xomplex to build a tree now with the optional and required techs.

Modified Tech Tree

Do you have Visio Thamis?
 
thamis said:
@Sword Dancer: Actually it might be a good idea to assign religions to their respective civilizations. But then, gameplay-wise, there's less of the race for religions... Hmm...

Yes it does lessen the impact of religion, but keep in mind that teh majority of religious-based wars occurred after the collapse of the Roman Empire.

Further, it does make Christianity a BIG goal, since it will have a Holy City attached to it, unlike the other religions.

Conversely, if you want to assign holy cities to the pre-assigned (organized) religions, then you should be prepared to grant balance factor bonuses to the other civs practicing those religions -- they will not be able to build the associated religious wonders.
 
Sword Dancer said:
Yes it does lessen the impact of religion, but keep in mind that teh majority of religious-based wars occurred after the collapse of the Roman Empire.

Further, it does make Christianity a BIG goal, since it will have a Holy City attached to it, unlike the other religions.

But, if you have christianity in the game as a religion, wouldn't that be too late to even be useful? At that time, the end of the game is close, so you don't have much time, and desir, to build missionary and such to spread christianity...

Unless you make that a victory condition and make it come a bit early. Thinking about it, near the end of the game, every civs will be connected with roads and have tons of trade routes, so a religion should spread really really fast.

Maybe make the other 'religions' a Civic choice instead and have only Christianity as a true religion? Convert X% of the world to Christianity would be a new victory condition, instead of a diplomatic victory.
 
I cleared up and divided the techs in 4 ages. I made tons of small and large changes, removed some tech because some paths were way too long, or the techs were redundant, etc.

It's also color coded, so that it's prettier. Thamis, let me know what you think, it changed a lot since yours so I dunno if you like it or if I've bastardized your ideas for the tech tree =)

Here's the color coded tech tree

If you like your tree better, I'll just post criticism on yours instead of making up another tree =)
 
@haplo:
Wow... that's quite a compliment actually.

@Karhgath:
I really like your tech tree. Just a few changes that I would suggest:
- Stirrups came to Europe after 500 AD. It was a (conscious) historical mistake in TAM, and I want something different now. How about we put in something like "Chain Mail"? Not sure when it was invented, but it could be some other mail too. Or simply call it "Heavy Armour". Tactics would then have no requirement. Chivalry would require Heavy Armour.
- Compass: Not sure that was invented by then. Columbus didn't have a compass, he used this triangular thing that I forgot the name of. How about we rename it "Geometry"? With map making you can trade maps, geometry centers the world map.
- Crop rotation: A medieval invention I think. Gotta look that up.
- Architecture: Where did that disappear? I think it should go like this:
Code:
Masonry -> Construction -> Architecture
__________ Construction -> Bridge Building -> Road Building
Architecture would allow the construction of one or two nice wonders.
- Ballistics: Should require Geometry then.
- Literature: Requires Alphabet anyway, doesn't need the extra requirement.

If you agree on this, can you modify these changes in? Oh, and it should be Code of Laws (plural) I think.

I don't have Visio.

@RELIGIONS:
I suggest the following: Religions are founded automatically (via Python) whenever they were historically founded (ie. specific date) in the capitals of all the civs that eventually adopted the religions. They don't have holy cities. Their shrines can be built, but they are normal wonders.
Christianity must be researched and will produce a holy city. Christianity should be a cheap tech. I'm in favour of adding the spreading of Christianity to 50% of the cities of the world as victory condition.
 
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