Deon
Lt. of Mordor
Change the default path to the path from registry. That's all.
RevolutionDCM for BTS
- Thread starter glider1
- Start date
dasvidania
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2007
- Messages
- 109
Thanks Kalimakhus 
I used Ranged Bombardment as add-on for Rise of Mankind and here i fund 2 button for ranged bombardement. One is for wall etc. and the otherone it damages unit.
With RevolutionDCM i have only one button and i can't damage unit (only if i attack directly the unit whit siege weapon for example).
Nice to use archer to bombard enemy.
good job!
I used Ranged Bombardment as add-on for Rise of Mankind and here i fund 2 button for ranged bombardement. One is for wall etc. and the otherone it damages unit.
With RevolutionDCM i have only one button and i can't damage unit (only if i attack directly the unit whit siege weapon for example).
Nice to use archer to bombard enemy.
good job!
Deon
Lt. of Mordor
Oops, I didn't notice there's 1.41 up =).
Anyway I manually fixed your issue in 1.4 and it's already fixed in 1.41.
But wait a bit, it looks like 1.41 have some bugs about options, read the bug thread.
Anyway I manually fixed your issue in 1.4 and it's already fixed in 1.41.
But wait a bit, it looks like 1.41 have some bugs about options, read the bug thread.
glider1
Deity
Will have to wait agree. Jdog is in the middle of redesigning Revolutions to be even better, and is being hit by a few "Python" issues in the last couple of releases since he incorporated the "BUG MOD".
Cheers.
glider1
Deity
That's good news thanks for that. The other "issue" about aggressive AI is the UN. After 100 hours into my current game, many AI's appear to stall on researching Mass Media and prefer military techs (there is a world war going on so kinda makes sense!). It's only the second place civ that has researched it. I've sold Mass Media around the globe to over twenty different civs and made a bucket load of gold out of it. It will be interesting to see what happens with the UN on aggressive AI.
The upside of an aggressive AI increasing it's military size is that it will be able to better quash rebellions. The down side is that the AI has to deal with financial problems....
On another issue regarding game options I'd be interested to get your thoughts. Last couple of games (four months duration!), I've gone for the start option of the standard eleven or twelve nations on a huge Terra map but on NORMAL speed not Epic or Marathon. The reasoning essentially is that a Terra map on huge with a standard number of nations is almost like a smaller size Continents map you would tend to play on Normal speed. This is because half the map is actually inaccessible until Astronomy.
The upside of normal speed on a huge Terra map are multiple. Game strategy is emphasised much more on a turn by turn basis. Offensive unit deployments, railroad construction and colonisation become more of an issue feeding back to more critical tactics. Games become much more thickly concentrated on a turn by turn basis (there is always something interesting happening every turn) and exploration directions and choices are much more critical as well.
Warfare is much more regionally based too (mainly between neighbours), because units can't travel as far because they have less turns to do and still be effective. This tends to be quite "realistic" to me and could quite possibly disincline the AI to declare ridiculous hypothetical wars (only a guess).
The downside of Normal speed on a huge Terra map with standard starting civs are two fold. It hypothetically favours the defender over the attacker because if an army has travelled a long way to begin it's attack, it might be obsolete by the time it starts and the defender can potentially build defensive units within a few turns.....
On this basis I'd probably reject normal speed if I were not playing Revolutions. However with Revolutions, the whole issue about invasion and conquering is much more difficult generally. You have to win the support of the conquered peoples and also crush nationalist uprisings. If you think of it in terms of what the AI has to do, it struggles to get that right more than a human does. So Revolutions tends to swing the game balance in the favour of humans once you learn how to deal with rebellions.
If however you play on Normal speed with the Revolutions mod, the defender is a little bit more advantaged relative to the attacker. This restores some of the balance to the Revolutions mod because AI invaders are more likely to fail with the invasion, which is probably in their interest because of the rebellions that will ensue that the AI cannot deal with anyway!!!
What I think I'm finding is that what actually pans out is that AI invasions fail more than fifty percent of the time, but they do get the benefits of wrecking their enemies economy and obtaining plunder etc which suits the AI's needs quite well. Occasionally they do even succeed in holding conquered lands long term....
The whole thing is about trying to make it harder for the human relative to the AI especially once you get to Monarch difficulty. Beyond Monarch, I think the game becomes a little stupid because the human always has to play excessive catch up exercises because of the AI's huge production and research advantage.
The other disadvantage of Normal Speed on a huge Terra Map is regarding colonisation. It can take fifteen turns or so for a galleon to sail all the way to the new world. This means colonial planning has to be done correctly. You have to prepare at least three galleons with workers, defenders, settlers to give the colony a chance when the investment in the journey time is so big. By the time modern transports come and especially air transport, the problem is simpler. Personally as far as my own experience has shown, it means that colonising abroad on normal speed has to be quite well thought out.
Perhaps this travel time disadvantage might favour the human over the AI and so slightly break the the idea unfortunately.... Time will tell. The experience I've had is that by the time you make it to the new world with all those galleons, the minor civs are already making solid progress in settling it, and so the prospect to build a big colony abroad is not that good unless you wage war. The AI on Monarch is still able to successfully colonise the new world especially along the coast lines so it seems ok. You'd have to compare the success of AI colonisation on marathon verses normal speed over many games.....
The last advantage of Normal speed is that you are doing less waiting around for turns to tick over. Because normal speed games are event rich turn by turn, it's even worth the investment in real time to sit back and watch all the enemy and friendly moves each turn.
Cheers.
PS) turn off time based 2050 victories if you really want to enjoy the late game....
Kalimakhus
Emperor
- Joined
- May 8, 2007
- Messages
- 1,249
Good analysis. I've been going back and forth between normal and marathon speeds myself ever since I started playing Civ4. I also had some interesting stops with the epic speed and I should say it is worth more attention. I feel it might be more balanced. I played with Revolution on earth map with 4 starting civs on epic speed and it was quite good.
Out of my experience normal speed generally puts the human player to a higher level of challenge. Terra maps make even a little more challenging and still Revolution will add yet a little bit as well. The rational behind it is that the human player has got an advantage that grows each turn. With more turns this advantage will make a wide gap early era-wise. On higher difficulties it means that the human will catch up quickly with the AI i.e. within ancient era. On normal speed the human player may not be able to catch-up before the Medieval era. At this time the AI has built large empire and is in a position to give the human player some hard time. In later stages it is also unlikely that you will be the first and only one who made it to the new-world. In some marathon games I would have built my third colonial city when an AI Caravel makes its first appearance in other have of the world. In my current game on normal speed I had to compete with two other civs for getting the bonus of being the first to prove earth is a globe. (BTW. I just have a thing for this race I have to win it in every terra game or I will be very sad and usually a civ that beats me to it will be annihilated in a nasty manner).
About time limit, I almost always win my games or abandon them (for being a sure win) before 1920. At some moment I am all rich and powerful that it is almost impossible to keep calm I just have to go wipe one AI after the other (If you played civ3 it just felt that they deserved it
). It doesn't make a difference if one or more AI are powerful the modern era warfare is too complicated for them to win against the human player.
Out of my experience normal speed generally puts the human player to a higher level of challenge. Terra maps make even a little more challenging and still Revolution will add yet a little bit as well. The rational behind it is that the human player has got an advantage that grows each turn. With more turns this advantage will make a wide gap early era-wise. On higher difficulties it means that the human will catch up quickly with the AI i.e. within ancient era. On normal speed the human player may not be able to catch-up before the Medieval era. At this time the AI has built large empire and is in a position to give the human player some hard time. In later stages it is also unlikely that you will be the first and only one who made it to the new-world. In some marathon games I would have built my third colonial city when an AI Caravel makes its first appearance in other have of the world. In my current game on normal speed I had to compete with two other civs for getting the bonus of being the first to prove earth is a globe. (BTW. I just have a thing for this race I have to win it in every terra game or I will be very sad and usually a civ that beats me to it will be annihilated in a nasty manner).
About time limit, I almost always win my games or abandon them (for being a sure win) before 1920. At some moment I am all rich and powerful that it is almost impossible to keep calm I just have to go wipe one AI after the other (If you played civ3 it just felt that they deserved it
). It doesn't make a difference if one or more AI are powerful the modern era warfare is too complicated for them to win against the human player.glider1
Deity
Yes, you are probably right. It will take a lot of work on the AI to make it understand the modern era. That will come with time....
However, I'm not normally as wealthy as you by 1920 but am usually in the top five nations. The next 100 years is spent trying to claw up the final five places and ensure that an AI doesn't win the space race or cultural win. There's still a bit of challenge in the last 100 years if a top three AI DOWS on you and is already got a head start on the space race. This is another reason why aggressive AI can be a good option...
However you have to turn off the 2050 time limit win because this can really shut the game down arbitrarily in a handful of cases....It's a pity to play through 100 hours on a game to have it end "arbitrarily" especially when the score at 2050 is not necessarily a real reflection of how well the civ has done relative to others....
One thing is for certain. Normal speed certainly doesn't mean a game plays through quicker on RevolutionDCM because the complexity levels rise so quickly and there are so many things to do per turn, that you spend as much real time on a normal speed game as you do on a marathon game!
Cheers.
glider1
Deity
I think Epic speed is the reference speed for Jdog's development of Revolutions and this could be why you are experiencing it as more balanced for Revolutions. However, Jdog has written the code to scale correctly to any speed.....
Cheers.
Seidrik_The_Gray
Seidrik The Gray
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2006
- Messages
- 1,160
WOW...I had some time on my hands this weekend and would love to share my experience.
**I personally think that movement rates should increase with map size, but since they don't I don't play on Huge or larger maps, even Terra size Large should warrant unit speed increases.**
Game Settings: Monarch, Large Terra, Normal Speed 6 total Civs, Choose your religion, and everything else = default.
Starting Civs = Me (Holy Roman), Ramsess II (Egypt), Qin Shi Huang (China), Mansa Musa (Mali), Alexander (Greece), Montezuma (Aztec).
In Ancient times, the Malinesians have revolted many times, so have the Aztecs. A few minor civs have risen to become Kingdoms in the new world. There are now about 18 civs in my game, 5 are in the new world. I have had to aggressively trade techs and manage my sprawling empire (hit 20 million around 1300 AD).
It is currently in the early 1800's. I have now been in the #1 position for the last 100 years solid, but I am not leading the tech race, yet. I had lived in peace with China and Egypt, and between the three of us, we have held the top 3 spots since time imemmorial. The three of us have also been in heated competition for wonders, culture, economy, and religion. I founded Christianity (gunning for Meditation early on), and spread it to China and Egypt. However, Egypt founded Jewdaism soon after I began spreading Christianity, and by the early middle ages, Egypt was the Holy Center of the world with the Apostollic Pallace and 3/4s of the old world under Jewdaism as their state religion. I held onto my Christian faith. Through careful diplomacy and tech trading etc...I managed to stay on every one's good side (no doubt helped by not having Aggressive AI on).
Although I had joined in on a couple wars (I have been in a state of War with two small civs who revolted between Mansa and Monte for ever), my army never fired a short or struck a blow against an enemy. Until 1590 AD...
Mansa was racing up the tech tree, Qin was popping great scientists, merchants and engineers like no one's business, and Ramsess II was pissing me off. First off, did I mention that Qin and Ramsess shared my North and western borders? Ramsess' capital, Thebes, had 6 Great Wonders, including the Sistine Chapel, the Apistollic Palace, the Great Lighthouse, Chichinitza, and a couple others...and was challenging my cultural position in the world. Not to mention that his holy city of Heliopolis was also a major culture mecca.
It took me nearly 100 years to build a force that I was comfortable would take Thebes. (10 Galleons full of Trebs, Curiassers, Musketmen, and Crossbowmen) I also built several spies to help protect my border cities, and to aid in my initial assault. I had only just gotten to the point where I could build Grenadiers, but didn't have many of them, so stationed them in defensive positions along my border with Egypt. About the time I had managed to station my Armada of Doom outside of Thebes' cultural borders but within a one turn drop distance, Ramsess had finished Steel! I was still 5 turns away from Steel...Cannons could meen the end of any hope in crippling Egypt.
I had a spy stationed in Mempis, Ramsess' border city within 4 tiles of two of my own border cities, which I had made little more than military production and gathering centers. By a hugely fortuitous event, I had popped a Great Spy in the late 1400s, and had already used him to infiltrate Egypt.
It was now or never, basically, and Thebes already had twelve defensive units, approximately 4 of each of these: (a mix of Macemen, Longbowmen, and Crossbowmen - I don't know why he didn't have Musketmen). I DOW, used my spy to steal Steel tech (SWEET!!!), and dropped my troops in an adjacent tile, and stationed my Galleons in proximety to nearby peninsula cities to cut off some trade routes and protect my coastal cities from any emerging Egyptian naval units. I was also building some Frigates to help on the Naval side.
Turn one, IBT after drop and spy mission and blockade initiation, Egypt fortifies their three key cities, including Thebes, so now, I have to also deal with a few more trebs and a couple other defensive units. I bombard the city's defenses, knocking them down to nearly 20%...too high from my previous experience with DCM and the defensive mix in there...one more turn outside the walls...meanwhile, Egypt's fleet of galleys has managed to sink a few of my galleons! and a couple Caravels are in the waters now too!
Turn two, I maneuver my Galleons to take out a couple Caravels and protect the majority of them while a my new Frigate makes its way up. I bombard again and then launch all of my units into Thebes in a stack attack with over 8 Musketmen, 8 Curiassers, and 10 Crossbowmen...what a battle! One day, I am going to reload that save file and watch the battle in slow mode, lol. I didn't take the city...and of the assault forces, I only have 1 badly wounded Musketman, and 3 badly wounded Curiassers, and all of my Crossbowmen.
IBT, Egypt is sending in reinforcements, but none reach Thebes, and inside are three badly wounded Egyptian Longbowmen.
Turn three, my fleet has secured coastal supremacy and locked down the blockade of the three Egyptian cities most likely to launch a sea-born reprisal. The Apistollic palace announces a vote to end the war against Ramsess II! I say NO! I launch all of my units 10 trebs, 10 Crossbowmen and the wounded members of the first assault into Thebes! I am victorious with no casualties, but many of my crossbowmen are somehow moderately injured.
Outside of Thebes, Egypt has a Cannon, 2 Macement, and 2 Longbowmen, and 2 Crossbowmen stationed.
Turn four, IBT, a Revolt occurs! Two of the coastal cities that I was blockading are now Babylonian cities, with several longbowmen in them! Initially, I'm at peace, so my fleet is kicked out of the cultural borders, but in the same turn, Babylon accepts Egypt's terms of subjugation! So then, they DOW on me. I fortify my units in Thebes and start healing them up. I am starting to muster a second wave of invasion forces (still realing from the shocking casualties of my first wave.) I reposition my fleet now to blockade Babylon. Another new Frigate is on its way.
Turn 5, the Apistollic vote results come in...the War is over bah! I am building a new invasion force and mustering them in a border town waiting for an excuse...I go to peace with Babylon and Egypt.
Several turns later, I now have a new invasion force ready with Curiassers, and Grenadiers, and Cannons, and a handful of Crossbowmen, and several Musketmen as well.
**Military Science cuts production of Longbowmen and Crossbowmen, but Riflemen and Musketmen, and Grenadiers cannot Bombard...hmmmm....**
I have a larger fleet ready now, and prepositioned for a new blockade.
I kick off the second phase of my war with Egypt, this time I will have to contend with cannons too. Thebes is in open rebellion also, but I have never actually seen the Persian rebels, who have sacrificed themselves twice already against my stack in Thebes.
This time, my war goes much smoother. The Grenadiers and Cannons make quick work of two of the Southern border towns, then the Curriasers, aided by Coastal bombardment take out the two Babylonian Coastal cities, then my reinforcements come in, and I now have taken out Babylon, and have two large conquering forces, with Cannons, Grenadiers, and Crossbowmen and Musketmen, who start to become Riflemen and Cavalry from Curiassers.
I take Heliopolis and another important city whose name escapes me.
I sue for peace, as my own people, start yelling about rebellion, due to the war weariness, and my open defiance of the Apistollic pallace, and the sudden expansion of my empire, etc...
Ramsess II now only has 3 cities left, but taking him out could mean the fracturing of my own empire...two of my main cities were threatening to revolt! I had to bribe one of them already. And, naturally, my conquest of Egypt was pissing off China and other member nations of the Apistollic palace.
I sued for peace, and am going to have to focus on incorporating the Egyptian culture into my own...no easy task, and my culture slider is now at 20%, but thanks to my financial prowess, I am still able to research early Industrial techs in 6 turns...oh, but did I mention that Egypt stole Military Science from me!!!
This mod forced me to sue for peace...that's awesome! The challenge was incredible! I've never spent so much time to planning out my invasion force, and my naval blockades, spies, etc...all into such a huge and fast-paced war. I felt that my first invasion force could have been lost actually...30 units...can you imagine? The kitchen sink, the frigerator, the garbage disposal and the microwave all went into taking just one city...
This game so far has played like one big roller coaster. Slow and steadily climbing, and then woooooosh! and then a rapid climb higher than before, then wooooosh! I am now wishing I could tell everyone to leave me alone for the rest of the day, just so I can fortify my position in Southern Egypt, and prepare for an invasion of China...another Industrious competitor, who could spoil my chances at a space race victory...
Let's face it, a domination win is impossible under these conditions, and i had to abandon culture a long time ago, although a strong cultural position has certainly kept my large empire stable.
Too bad I have to go to work today...
Addiction...I have found you!
On closing, I think Archer Bombard is crazy strong. It gave my Trebuchets (did I mention Galleons sunk by Archers?) and Curiassers serious pause. I think Archers should only have defensive Bombard or Stack Attack Bombard, but they can still take out too much of a unit IMHO. I know this reverses a previous statement I made, but where as in the early game it makes sense, by the middle ages, especially the late middle ages, they should have reduced impact, instead, Crossbowmen are still your elite force, lol. I think Military Science is now a waste, lol...I wanted Crossbowmen more than Grenadiers in final analysis. That thought just feels wrong on so many levels. But this is the ONLY thing I would consider changing. Everything else is awesome and has reignited my love of civ.
**I personally think that movement rates should increase with map size, but since they don't I don't play on Huge or larger maps, even Terra size Large should warrant unit speed increases.**
Game Settings: Monarch, Large Terra, Normal Speed 6 total Civs, Choose your religion, and everything else = default.
Starting Civs = Me (Holy Roman), Ramsess II (Egypt), Qin Shi Huang (China), Mansa Musa (Mali), Alexander (Greece), Montezuma (Aztec).
In Ancient times, the Malinesians have revolted many times, so have the Aztecs. A few minor civs have risen to become Kingdoms in the new world. There are now about 18 civs in my game, 5 are in the new world. I have had to aggressively trade techs and manage my sprawling empire (hit 20 million around 1300 AD).
It is currently in the early 1800's. I have now been in the #1 position for the last 100 years solid, but I am not leading the tech race, yet. I had lived in peace with China and Egypt, and between the three of us, we have held the top 3 spots since time imemmorial. The three of us have also been in heated competition for wonders, culture, economy, and religion. I founded Christianity (gunning for Meditation early on), and spread it to China and Egypt. However, Egypt founded Jewdaism soon after I began spreading Christianity, and by the early middle ages, Egypt was the Holy Center of the world with the Apostollic Pallace and 3/4s of the old world under Jewdaism as their state religion. I held onto my Christian faith. Through careful diplomacy and tech trading etc...I managed to stay on every one's good side (no doubt helped by not having Aggressive AI on).
Although I had joined in on a couple wars (I have been in a state of War with two small civs who revolted between Mansa and Monte for ever), my army never fired a short or struck a blow against an enemy. Until 1590 AD...
Mansa was racing up the tech tree, Qin was popping great scientists, merchants and engineers like no one's business, and Ramsess II was pissing me off. First off, did I mention that Qin and Ramsess shared my North and western borders? Ramsess' capital, Thebes, had 6 Great Wonders, including the Sistine Chapel, the Apistollic Palace, the Great Lighthouse, Chichinitza, and a couple others...and was challenging my cultural position in the world. Not to mention that his holy city of Heliopolis was also a major culture mecca.
It took me nearly 100 years to build a force that I was comfortable would take Thebes. (10 Galleons full of Trebs, Curiassers, Musketmen, and Crossbowmen) I also built several spies to help protect my border cities, and to aid in my initial assault. I had only just gotten to the point where I could build Grenadiers, but didn't have many of them, so stationed them in defensive positions along my border with Egypt. About the time I had managed to station my Armada of Doom outside of Thebes' cultural borders but within a one turn drop distance, Ramsess had finished Steel! I was still 5 turns away from Steel...Cannons could meen the end of any hope in crippling Egypt.
I had a spy stationed in Mempis, Ramsess' border city within 4 tiles of two of my own border cities, which I had made little more than military production and gathering centers. By a hugely fortuitous event, I had popped a Great Spy in the late 1400s, and had already used him to infiltrate Egypt.
It was now or never, basically, and Thebes already had twelve defensive units, approximately 4 of each of these: (a mix of Macemen, Longbowmen, and Crossbowmen - I don't know why he didn't have Musketmen). I DOW, used my spy to steal Steel tech (SWEET!!!), and dropped my troops in an adjacent tile, and stationed my Galleons in proximety to nearby peninsula cities to cut off some trade routes and protect my coastal cities from any emerging Egyptian naval units. I was also building some Frigates to help on the Naval side.
Turn one, IBT after drop and spy mission and blockade initiation, Egypt fortifies their three key cities, including Thebes, so now, I have to also deal with a few more trebs and a couple other defensive units. I bombard the city's defenses, knocking them down to nearly 20%...too high from my previous experience with DCM and the defensive mix in there...one more turn outside the walls...meanwhile, Egypt's fleet of galleys has managed to sink a few of my galleons! and a couple Caravels are in the waters now too!
Turn two, I maneuver my Galleons to take out a couple Caravels and protect the majority of them while a my new Frigate makes its way up. I bombard again and then launch all of my units into Thebes in a stack attack with over 8 Musketmen, 8 Curiassers, and 10 Crossbowmen...what a battle! One day, I am going to reload that save file and watch the battle in slow mode, lol. I didn't take the city...and of the assault forces, I only have 1 badly wounded Musketman, and 3 badly wounded Curiassers, and all of my Crossbowmen.
IBT, Egypt is sending in reinforcements, but none reach Thebes, and inside are three badly wounded Egyptian Longbowmen.
Turn three, my fleet has secured coastal supremacy and locked down the blockade of the three Egyptian cities most likely to launch a sea-born reprisal. The Apistollic palace announces a vote to end the war against Ramsess II! I say NO! I launch all of my units 10 trebs, 10 Crossbowmen and the wounded members of the first assault into Thebes! I am victorious with no casualties, but many of my crossbowmen are somehow moderately injured.
Outside of Thebes, Egypt has a Cannon, 2 Macement, and 2 Longbowmen, and 2 Crossbowmen stationed.
Turn four, IBT, a Revolt occurs! Two of the coastal cities that I was blockading are now Babylonian cities, with several longbowmen in them! Initially, I'm at peace, so my fleet is kicked out of the cultural borders, but in the same turn, Babylon accepts Egypt's terms of subjugation! So then, they DOW on me. I fortify my units in Thebes and start healing them up. I am starting to muster a second wave of invasion forces (still realing from the shocking casualties of my first wave.) I reposition my fleet now to blockade Babylon. Another new Frigate is on its way.
Turn 5, the Apistollic vote results come in...the War is over bah! I am building a new invasion force and mustering them in a border town waiting for an excuse...I go to peace with Babylon and Egypt.
Several turns later, I now have a new invasion force ready with Curiassers, and Grenadiers, and Cannons, and a handful of Crossbowmen, and several Musketmen as well.
**Military Science cuts production of Longbowmen and Crossbowmen, but Riflemen and Musketmen, and Grenadiers cannot Bombard...hmmmm....**
I have a larger fleet ready now, and prepositioned for a new blockade.
I kick off the second phase of my war with Egypt, this time I will have to contend with cannons too. Thebes is in open rebellion also, but I have never actually seen the Persian rebels, who have sacrificed themselves twice already against my stack in Thebes.
This time, my war goes much smoother. The Grenadiers and Cannons make quick work of two of the Southern border towns, then the Curriasers, aided by Coastal bombardment take out the two Babylonian Coastal cities, then my reinforcements come in, and I now have taken out Babylon, and have two large conquering forces, with Cannons, Grenadiers, and Crossbowmen and Musketmen, who start to become Riflemen and Cavalry from Curiassers.
I take Heliopolis and another important city whose name escapes me.
I sue for peace, as my own people, start yelling about rebellion, due to the war weariness, and my open defiance of the Apistollic pallace, and the sudden expansion of my empire, etc...
Ramsess II now only has 3 cities left, but taking him out could mean the fracturing of my own empire...two of my main cities were threatening to revolt! I had to bribe one of them already. And, naturally, my conquest of Egypt was pissing off China and other member nations of the Apistollic palace.
I sued for peace, and am going to have to focus on incorporating the Egyptian culture into my own...no easy task, and my culture slider is now at 20%, but thanks to my financial prowess, I am still able to research early Industrial techs in 6 turns...oh, but did I mention that Egypt stole Military Science from me!!!
This mod forced me to sue for peace...that's awesome! The challenge was incredible! I've never spent so much time to planning out my invasion force, and my naval blockades, spies, etc...all into such a huge and fast-paced war. I felt that my first invasion force could have been lost actually...30 units...can you imagine? The kitchen sink, the frigerator, the garbage disposal and the microwave all went into taking just one city...
This game so far has played like one big roller coaster. Slow and steadily climbing, and then woooooosh! and then a rapid climb higher than before, then wooooosh! I am now wishing I could tell everyone to leave me alone for the rest of the day, just so I can fortify my position in Southern Egypt, and prepare for an invasion of China...another Industrious competitor, who could spoil my chances at a space race victory...
Let's face it, a domination win is impossible under these conditions, and i had to abandon culture a long time ago, although a strong cultural position has certainly kept my large empire stable.
Too bad I have to go to work today...
Addiction...I have found you!
On closing, I think Archer Bombard is crazy strong. It gave my Trebuchets (did I mention Galleons sunk by Archers?) and Curiassers serious pause. I think Archers should only have defensive Bombard or Stack Attack Bombard, but they can still take out too much of a unit IMHO. I know this reverses a previous statement I made, but where as in the early game it makes sense, by the middle ages, especially the late middle ages, they should have reduced impact, instead, Crossbowmen are still your elite force, lol. I think Military Science is now a waste, lol...I wanted Crossbowmen more than Grenadiers in final analysis. That thought just feels wrong on so many levels. But this is the ONLY thing I would consider changing. Everything else is awesome and has reignited my love of civ.
Seidrik_The_Gray
Seidrik The Gray
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2006
- Messages
- 1,160
See my previous loooooooong post. Normal speed is not for the faint of heart, and make sure you have about 4 hours to blow, because you are going to be on the edge of your seet, biting your finger nails to bloody stubs!!! Epic is like sipping your poison of choice rather than chugging it.
Reading these last few comments, I'm inclined to laugh hysterically. I always play on normal speed with tiny maps (because movement doesn't scale with map size), and I've discovered some interesting side effects in Revolutions that jdog didn't foresee. See the Revolutions mod forum.
glider1
Deity
Yeah my first reaction was to laugh as well! Cool stuff and this type of complexity and mayhem is excellent to hear about, especially when I hear that the AI put up a bit of counter-mayhem as well. Most impressed was I that the AI pinched a tech off you too (You deserved it).
Yeah archer bombardment is certainly controversial. I'm not sure whether to turn it off next game. I don't have any experience so far with archer bombardment because of it's previous bugs forcing me to turn it off. The only comment is that yes a crossbowman army could be still more effective than a grenadier right at the moment of military science, but soon these crossbowman will become obsolete even with archer bombard. It's inevitable. So the army would seem to be only effective for a short time there after especially if you need a war right around the time of military science. What does a crossbowman upgrade too and how much does it cost? The issue is whether Musketmen are obsolete generally because of crossbowmen and archer bombard. What about that?
I gather from your game, all DCM components seem to be working in terms of crashes?
Cheers.
Kalimakhus
Emperor
- Joined
- May 8, 2007
- Messages
- 1,249
We do have a kind of dilemma here. Technically speaking all gunpowder units (except for grenadiers) are ranged units. They basically hit at distance with limited or non milee capabilities. Historically early gunpowder units were slower than crossbowmen and longbowmen. They also had shorter range.
Now the problem is that what the barrage ability in DCM represent is the archer units ability to shot indirect volley of projectiles (arrows) at the enemy causing collateral damage. Gunpowder units don't have such ability though later units (with larger range) can deal a similar damage. Up to Riflemen they only used to shot at a relatively short distance.
Anyway, I like that corssbowmen can be more effective than Grenadiers as historically the later were not that powerful or essential as they are represented in the game. Just imagine a bunch of Grenade throwers charging at crossbowmen in real life. The later would annihilate them so easily.
Now the problem is that what the barrage ability in DCM represent is the archer units ability to shot indirect volley of projectiles (arrows) at the enemy causing collateral damage. Gunpowder units don't have such ability though later units (with larger range) can deal a similar damage. Up to Riflemen they only used to shot at a relatively short distance.
Anyway, I like that corssbowmen can be more effective than Grenadiers as historically the later were not that powerful or essential as they are represented in the game. Just imagine a bunch of Grenade throwers charging at crossbowmen in real life. The later would annihilate them so easily.
Seidrik_The_Gray
Seidrik The Gray
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2006
- Messages
- 1,160
Yes, it was one of my best WTF moments in that game, getting a tech pinched by the AI. I admit that after pinching a tech from Ramsess, my espionage points were pretty low compaired to him, and the temptation was probably unavoidable for the AI, but still, it is exceptionally rare to have an AI do more than decimate a few improvements against me, even on Monarch. It was one of the better experiences in that game.
I believe they upgrade to Machinegunners...the defensive only 18 :str: units with a 50% bonus versus gunpowder units and possibly to the Anti tank mortar infantry units (what's their name again?)
I believe the upgrade is on the order of 150 or so gold.
My experience is that Musketmen are nearly useless. Granted, a crossbowman attacking a Musketman on equal terrain (let's use the example of a grassland tile no forest, etc...) would most likely lose. However, if the Crossbowman were attacked by the Musketman, the Musketman would lose. A stack of 2 Crossbowmen would bombard the Musketman about 10-20% in round 1, and if the Musketman didn't move, and were fortified, then he would definitely be dead in the next round. Hard to say really whether the Crossbowman is still better in one on one combat than the Musketman. I'd say it is situational. But here's why I found it exceptional to keep large numbers of them in my armies, especially when I was on the cusp of cannons...the Archery Bombard. With ten Crossbowmen, I was decimating defensive troops in preparation for my assault. They were much better at this than my Trebuchets, lol! I found it much more efficient to take the walls down with my Trebs and then bombard with my Crossbowmen, rather than to relie on my Trebs alone. Plus, when the enemy would attack my assault force, my Crossbowmen were practically killing them before they hit my front line, lol.
This last part was great, but why can't stationary gunpowder units do this also??? Ok, so maybe that's built into the :str: number of these advance units, especially Rifleman and beyond, but there's definitely an apparent overlap period, where holding onto hordes of Crossbowmen really holds an advantage that the AI doesn't appear to realize.
It could be a small window, but my game that I just wrote about definitely highlights this window in red hot neon!
I have not had any crashes...but I haven't gotten to the point where I am stack attacking with Infantry yet either though, which appears to be where the DCM CASA CTD appears to occur as reported in Dale's thread.
Maybe this weekend I'll get to see some more modern elements. My game time during M-F is not long enough to really play a late stage game like this one. Turns were taking 2-5 minutes with all of the combat and MMing and troop deployments going on.
My next phase would involve solidifying my new cities and either getting ready to finish Ramsess off or preparing to take on China. At either rate, I now have two very large land armies and a decent sized fleet for what I need.
Would anyone like to have my last save to push through the modern era? If for nothing else than to get to a point to test RevDCM in high combat with modern units?
I could supply it tonight when I get home if there's interest.
Seidrik_The_Gray
Seidrik The Gray
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2006
- Messages
- 1,160
True. Your points are very accurate historically speaking, and I support what Dale's vision is. I also like how the Archer Bombard really makes you throw the kitchen sink and several appliances into any war with a major civ...after all who wants to fight a push over? I suppose my biggest beaf is what those Egyptian Longbowmen did to some of my blockading Galleons. How can a Longbowman, even 4 units of them take a Galleon down to 30% in one round so that a Caravel or Galley stands a good chance of taking them down?
Your answer could be they might have used flaming arrows to set fires to the deck, etc...But my Galleons would in reality be far enough to be out of bow shot. I can live with the decimating impact of Crossbowmen and Longbowmen in the field...I mean, just look at the movie 300, or Troy, or Braveheart, etc...a rain of arrows has a sickening impact on light ground forces until rifles.
Is there a way to prevent Archery Bombard from affecting sea and potentially air units?
Deon
Lt. of Mordor
When will you be able to merge it with Revolutions 1.42 (fixes few bugs and pathfinding issue)? I want to play your mod...
Kalimakhus
Emperor
- Joined
- May 8, 2007
- Messages
- 1,249
@kwarriorpoet
It happened once to me that a #@$%& AI that has the Great Wall used one of his Great Spies to infiltrate me. (I guess it because I don't think there is a message tells you that "oops you've got infiltrated"). Anyway the next thing was The Secrets of so and so was stolen by a f$$%% enemy spy. I think I was robbed off 3 techs at that time.
Your points about Galleons is true. There is no way that any ranged unit except for canons and artillery can harm a ship. I don't know if a negative modifier for archery units against ships may affect the damage dealt by them in bombardment. i.e. if we give longbows -80% against naval units would it do the trick?
It happened once to me that a #@$%& AI that has the Great Wall used one of his Great Spies to infiltrate me. (I guess it because I don't think there is a message tells you that "oops you've got infiltrated"). Anyway the next thing was The Secrets of so and so was stolen by a f$$%% enemy spy. I think I was robbed off 3 techs at that time.
Your points about Galleons is true. There is no way that any ranged unit except for canons and artillery can harm a ship. I don't know if a negative modifier for archery units against ships may affect the damage dealt by them in bombardment. i.e. if we give longbows -80% against naval units would it do the trick?
glider1
Deity
Anyway good one and I do think you have a point there. I noticed you have put it up to Dale in a thoughtful intelligent way that might make Dale look into it and not get turned off. Well done and loved the write up on that game of your's last weekend.
@Kalimakhus
I do see your point on crossbowmen and agree that I kinda like archer bombardment all the way up to military science and a fraction beyond. Seems ok and also fun but it is controversial....
What do you think of the AI's use of archer bombardment in the field? Another interesting thing will be to see how the AI uses ranged bombardment with artillery....
@Deon
Yeah I'll try and do an update merge soon. Can you in the meantime make the modification to the Python that you actually correctly suggested to Jdog!?
Cheers.
Deon
Lt. of Mordor
It's changing
to
os.getcwd returns the directory the program (beyong the sword.exe in this example) is run from.
os.path.join(_getInstallDir(), "Mods") - to define the Mods directory if needed.
Also it fixes the path for MacOS if there's a problem.
Code:
def _getInstallDir():
{anything you have, usually registry key}to
Code:
def _getInstallDir():
civ4Dir = os.getcwd()
return civ4Diros.getcwd returns the directory the program (beyong the sword.exe in this example) is run from.
os.path.join(_getInstallDir(), "Mods") - to define the Mods directory if needed.
Also it fixes the path for MacOS if there's a problem.
glider1
Deity
Looks like it's not just Python but C++ code that has to change with Jdog's latest Revolutions build. That means another merge won't happen for quite a few days. Once C++ is involved, there's *lots* of potential for mistakes and as well a merge needs to be tested before being released. I won't be able to get a look at it until at least the weekend.
Cheers.
Similar threads
