End of Empires - N3S III

ooc: 2500 measures of fine silver for a sacred Island TMG? if that translates as 2500 economic points... well lets just say that wouldn't buy you a seminary in Opios. In fact what it would buy you according to the guide for such matters is approximately 2.5 temples.

OOC: It would buy you two and a half temple complexes. I'll note that the price the Daharai offered is roughly equivalent to the entire income of the Church of Iralliam over the course of a decade. It would allow for the establishment of at least two colonies, or it could support 12500 infantrymen of superior quality for a span of ten years. Considering that the Savirai are going to war against the Karapeshai, and considering they have little room for financial maneuver given the number of soldiers they are currently supporting, I would consider the offer of the Daharai well-considered and fair.
 
OOC: The Church of Iralliam incidentally not being a state and so not really good as a comparison. To elaborate, presumably a lot of the tithe and other income streams go not to the Grand-Patriarchate where I can use it, but rather are burnt up at a lower level on charity and the ordinary functions of the Church (those new monasteries the update mentioned in the Holy Moti Empire didn't build themselves, and I didn't pay for them out of the Grand-Patriarchates coffers!).

If we were to discuss the offer though, I would say you're not taking into account the income the Savirai gain from Dinyart. Is a one time payment of a relatively small (just take a look at the incomes of the great empires) sum worth the long term benefit? That said, its a question between you and the Savirai as you take advantage of their inconvenient situation to pursue your own ends, let us not therefore perpetuate this discussion further.
 
It is tempting to dismiss the followers of Aitah as evil men, or perhaps as deluded fools. This must be avoided, for it far understates the danger the cultists pose. For the most convincing Lie, the most dangerous Darkness, is that which is cloaked in bright Truth, to hide its essential nature from all but the very wise. And there are truths in the teachings of its cultists, hard truths that we must confront if we are to understand the peril facing the Faith. Yes, the Lightgivers have failed, the Lightholders have failed, and most of all the Wards have failed, even to the High Ward himself. Yes, we have failed, but we have not departed from the path. We have failed in our duty to the Faith and the Faithful. Our energies have been absorbed by theological arguments and political infighting, and so we ignored the great peril rising in the east, we saw not the danger. We failed to discern the nature of the Aitah, we failed to warn the Faithful of their peril. Absent that warning, how can we blame men for embracing that which looks bright and true? We failed and we are paying for that failure, but the Faith must be revitalized, reinvigorated, not abandoned for the false promises of the easterners. Because beneath that shining glaze of Truth hides the great Lie, the yawning void at the heart of their cult. You have only to believe in Aitah and all will be well, they say; there is no need for struggle, for Guidance, for effort, because Virtue is easily obtained through mere belief. Virtue is not easy, for if it were easy all men would be virtuous and the world would never have fallen. In the absence of Guidance, in the absence of vigilance, men will inevitably stray. But here is the true malign genius of this cult, for Aitah has men believe they are virtuous no matter their actions, has them believe they are leading the world to perfection, as all the while they stray further from the virtuous path. Aitah would lead the world into decay and despair, while the world smiled and cheered and believed itself redeemed, only to realize too late its damnation. Aitah is nothing but a spirit of Darkness, come to corrupt the Faith itself and warp it into a vehicle for the world's destruction!

But we are not yet lost. In its arrogance this Darkness revealed its nature at Gallasa, vented all its spite and hate and contempt for the High Ward and the Faithful. The Immolation has shocked the Faithful into action, but more importantly it has shaken the Faith from its complacency. We have opened our eyes and we have seen the Darkness, and we now know what we must do. We must rededicate ourselves to the Faith! We must root out the corruption and decadence that infest our government, and create a state worthy of the Faith, a state capable of defending the Faith! We must save those enthralled by the false glamour of the Red Lady and throw back its legions! Most of all, we must spread the word, deliver at last the warning. All men of the Faith must know the truth: Aitah is the Enemy!


From Ward Risadri's First Sermon on the Enemy, delivered at Sirasona in SR 600
 
To: The Grandpatriarch of Opios
From: The Sarafaio of the Farubaida o Caroha


We have heard enough from your herald, and we have heard enough for the time being.

Two weeks ago, he arrived in Caroha, expressing alarm at what he termed 'Anti-Iralliamite Practices in the Farubaida'. The Pentapartite Council's ears were caught by this claim, for it would be crass and unbecoming of us to behave in such a manner, to act counter to a faith of truth, goodness and light. With rapt attention, we bade him speak, and speak he did.

This voice of the Grandpatriarch went on to declare the Farubaida's favouritism towards Aitahism, at the expense of the Iralliamites of the Federation. So great was this stated inequity that he declared our behaviour to be outright “...reprehensible, particularly in consideration of the assistance the realms of Iralliam gave to the Aitahist nations against the Satar horde, assistance without which we would have seen the Satar retaining their dominion over your lands. The Farubaida owes its liberty to assistance from the followers of Iralliam and yet it repays them with marginalization, and disrespect? It maintains the protection of Iralliamite nations and yet tramples the Church into the dirt and scoffs at the name of Opporia?”

Let us pause here, for a moment, and consider why this guest to our dignified halls of government may have made a poor first impression of himself. First, he called our behaviour reprehensible, when it is most visibly not. The Farubaida patronizes a great many things. The establishment of structures of learning, of theatre and the arts, and of faith, are all aided by the largesse of the Sarafaio. Religious buildings, be they Temples to Aitah, Temples to Haiao, or Temples to the Heart of Knowledge itself, are established in proportion to the number of those who use them. The Farubaida is a land of much mixing and overlap of faiths, and it is terribly difficult to state for certain how many of us are Orthodox Aitahist, how many of us worship Haiao alone, and how many hold both divinities dear. However, to be most crude and broad, we may estimate that there exist four Aitahists for every one Iralliamite. What proportion exists in human souls is reflected in the churches of our lands.

However, our guest, the herald of the Grandpatriarch, did not halt with merely one affront. He went on to declare the Farubaida's deep debt to the Realms of Iralliam, casually raising the spectre of the Treda and wielding the vile Dahaiaou as a threat against us. In doing so, he insults all who perished in the annihilation of Farou and Tarofa, and all who died in the fell years that followed. Ignored are the armies of the great General Aramsayafa, who fought by the side of the Moti Chief-of-Chiefs throughout that terrible war. Does this herald disregard how the Helsians cast the Satar out of their own lands? Does he not know how we destroyed the Butcher of Kargan, and reclaimed the city in which he stands at this very moment? We won our freedom, as we have time and time again since antiquity, through force of will and force of arms!

Through that war, the precursors of the Farubaida and the Holy Moti Empire forged a bond that has never been broken, an alliance unshakeable, and unassailable. We have each sacrificed much for the other. We stand together as the closest of partners, but neither of us are beholden to the whims of the other's churches. We are allies! We! Are! Not! Slaves!

Beyond all this, the herald returned to his tremendous insults, that we trample upon Iralliam, and scoff at Haiao's name! What more horrendous things will this man accuse us of doing? Haiao is beloved to Iralliamites and Aitahists both, for he is the light, the sun, the source! In the words he spoke, the herald of the Grandpatriarch showed himself to be wholly uninformed of our people, and accuses us of making the most blasphemous and false insults against our own faith!

He concluded his speech to our dumbfounded council by declaring his Grandpatriarch's demands “The Church requests an end to this disrespect and undue favouritism of Aitahism. It requests an equivalent and respectful equality of support in acknowledgement of the Farubaida's debt to Iralliam, and the presence of ostensibly equal Iralliamite nations in its Federation. We would also ask, if the Farubaida is so inclined to show it is not an enemy of the faith or an ungrateful recipient of the faithful, that it redresses the previous abuses by supporting the construction of Iralliamite temples in those areas where Iralliam is practiced and in the major cities, for the community of the faithful to balance the excessive support of Aitahism to the neglect of Iralliam the Farubaida commited over the last ten years.”

The Farubaida does not play favourites between Iralliam and Aitahism. The Farubaida is not indebted to the Church of Iralliam. The Farubaida resents the implication that the equality of its Federation is a lie. The Farubaida is affronted by the mere suggestion that it might be an enemy of the faith, or a Federation of Ingrates. The Farubaida will not be driven to action by untruths.

With this, our first audience was completed. The Sarafaio, understandably incensed, chose a levelheaded representative to respond on their behalf. Thus spoke Lady Piralayei Maeridula of Faerouhaiaou.



“Your words seem harsh, dear messenger, and troublingly accusatory in tone. However, the road from Opios has been long, you are weary, and I do not begrudge you your concerns, for were they to be wholly true, then there would be much trouble afoot in the Farubaida. As is ever the case, there are many ways in which illumination may be brought to this issue. First, let me assure you that the Farubaida holds a deep respect for both Aitahism and Iralliam, and in this very room you will find men and women of both faiths, present at the highest levels of the Pentapartite Council. You can be quite sure that, were the Teachings of Light and Dark being suppressed as you so fear, then we would have a most terrible conflagration going on at this very moment, in protest of such an issue. The Grandpatriarch need not fear that the Church, over whom he is Ward, is suffering in our lands.

Our Farubaida is, as its Faronun name suggests, a Federation. The Five States; The Union of Aya'se, The Empire of Dremai, the Empire of Helsia, Neruss, and Faerouhaiaou; are five self-governing federates united by a common foreign policy. How each state opts to patronize various causes is up to the various Senates, Kings, Emperors, and Faeoria Councils which govern them.

Faerouhaiaou is my land, that of the Helsian Uplanders. We are a people whose faith has been informed by a great many sources. Just as the ancient Liealbis learned of Opporia the Luminous, the ancient Faronun independently recognized and rightly revered Haiao as the holy source of all. It took a great many years for the Satar to come, and teach us of Dahaiaou, and longer still for the word of Kleo to reach our ears. Through the Prophet or Iralliam's teachings, we learned of the duality, and knowledge of the ultimate good and the ultimate evil has informed us ever since.

Similarly, teachers from the north, the land of the Sehorsehockyes, taught us of the Red Lady, and the celestial court. Aitah shines Haiao's light upon the path to salvation- it is not a different path, it is the same tale, told through the tongues of different prophets.

Through the love of Aitah and the Light of Haiao, my people follow the Doru o Ierai, the hunt for truth. We seek the holiness of pure knowledge, the perfect forms of the Haiao, and the liberation of mankind from the wickedness, ignorance and deception of the Dahaiaou.

It is to this that our great temple in Sahelahaia is constructed. It is not a temple of Aitah alone, and you may find that it shares far more with a house of the Illuminating One, than it does with a shrine to the Lady Goddess.

I do invite you to look upon it, and perhaps you shall not fear so much that the faith of Iralliam suffers from disregard or disrespect.

Now, returning to more temporal matters, places of worship and civic institutions are funded through the charity of their communities and the patronage of their rulers. The Union of Aya'se, being the heartland of Aitahism and overwhelmingly Orthodox, will see the construction of buildings celebrating the Lady, while the Empire of Helsia, the bastion of the South, shall set out to glorify the Light. In both, believers of other faiths may worship, and just as minor Patriarchies evangelize in the north, so do the new Hundreds preach the word of Aitah throughout the south.

The Farubaida was founded in an accord between Aitahists and Iralliamites, and the accord stands. Both faiths are recognized in the eyes of the law, and both guide their followers towards goodness and truth. For us to tread upon one or the other would be an affront to our beliefs, values and laws, all at once.”




This, we hoped, would impress upon the Grandpatriarch's herald the nature of the issue into which he was wading. Unfortunately, it was not to be. Lady Maeridula was rebuffed, the herald noted that he was well aware of the “attitudes and mechanics of [our] dominion”. He then proceeded upon his insistence that our support of Aitahism was “egregious”, and that the Grandpatriarch demanded recompense, precisely budgeted from that point and on into the future. When questioned on precisely what that amounted to, the herald stated a value of 5 000 000 Haoui [5000 EP], then suggested that, due to the Grandpatriarch's mercy and generosity, that value could be reduced to a mere 4 000 000 Haoui. These values amount to roughly three year's worth of the entire Farubaida's discretionary income.

This provoked a profoundly negative reaction, largely because the justification for the donation in the first place is a false accusation. However, the herald carried on unbothered. Speaking more of this tithe...

“This would expiate the seeming marginalisation of Iralliam in your dominion, and need I say it ensure that no fallout comes your way from the events in Hallat, where the Aitahists there saw fit to burn the High Ward of the Maninists at the stake. The political situation is such that it is quite necessary from my side of the fence for the Farubaida to clear up any perception (intended or not) of being unequitable to Iralliam. Twould also alleviate the Grand-Patriarchs urge to denounce Aitahism in light of the atrocity (which the Farubaida incidentally has failed to condemn), something which would be politically inconvenient for you I'm sure.”

At this point, anger and frustration knew no longer where they ought to go, and gave away to confusion. Was this man, the voice of the Grandpatriarch of Opios, threatening to denounce the entirety of the Aitahist religion in response to the death of the High Ward of Maninism? The death of a man who was in league with the Dahaiaou? The Dahaiaou, who stand against everything that the Grandpatriarch, as the figurehead of Iralliam, stands for?

As the Sarafaio sat aghast, the herald went on to discuss how the funding for new Iralliamite churches might be distributed between the various federates of the Farubaida. At last, Se'Val, Representative of the Senate of the Union, rose to interrupt the herald. A heated argument broke out regarding the nature of his statements, leading to the herald restating the position which he was appointed to represent.

“I did not blame the Farubaida for the burning of the High Ward, instead I pointed out that Aitahists did it, in the name of the Aitah, and that this concerns the Grandpatriarchate in the context of ostensible favouritism to Aitahism in the Farubaida. Afterall as they say there are many Aitahs but only one Aitah, who's therefore to say this ostensible favouritism could not turn into something like what is occurring in Hallat, namely the aggressive subjugation and active extirpation of a competing religion, should the Holy Moti Empire cease to be the leviathan on your doorstep? The context of the burning of the High Ward entirely revolves around the Aitahist religion, it did not occur in a secular context, and politically therefore in terms of this discussion it is relevant when explaining why the Church of Iralliam desires tangible signs of equality with Aitahism within the Farubaida. It fears that the Farubaida's Aitahists have ill intent to the Church.”

To summarize the Faronun response: The burning of the High Ward is an event possessed of both secular and religious motivations, for he is both a political opponent, and a man in league with the Dahaiaou. The idea of Farubaidan Aitahists slaughtering their own people, Iralliamites, is ludicrous and offensive. The equality you seek exists, despite the fact that you seem to be doing your very, very best to undermine it through your statements.

Your herald has since departed from our audience, O Grandpatriarch, but we wish to send a messenger of our own to your hallowed halls in Opios. Let it now be read.



Long have the words of the Prophet Kleo been heeded, both in Helsia and throughout the Farubaida.

Long has Haiao been worshipped, and the Dahaiaou been shunned in our lands.

Long have the Moti, Faronun, Seshweay, Nerussians, and all other civilized folk of the cradle been allies.

Long may our alliance last.

Great is your authority, Aisen of Opios, but you are unwise to wield it heavily, in cultures with whom you are unfamiliar.

Glory to the Light. Glory to the Lady.
 
ooc: you neglect to note of course that save the first two bolded sections which were indeed in context statements, the remaining parts were written out of context and were intended as explanations of the broader political context (pertaining to the Church's concerns regarding the possibility of "radical aitahism" eastern style being present in the Farubaida and antagonistic to the Church) in which the in context message was sent considering you didn't seem to understand why the Church was concerned as it was, and considering the fact your in-context response didn't actually answer the core of my in-context query and was mere deflection. You also neglect to note that I later sent a message to you apologising for the irritated tone of condescension in both IC and OOC messages, pointing out various RL and other factors that contributed to me being as such (and noting they do not justify being a tard) and offering alternate arrangements that would see the Church's concerns assuaged.

I can understand of course why you were/are pissed at me, heck I would be irritated if I had to answer my own letters I sent you! But as I said I acknowledged (both now and in that apology PM I sent you and which you may or may not have read and deliberately ignored) that the demeanour of my PMs was less than ideal, and that RL circumstances didn't justify being a dick to you. Understanding I was dick, that truth does not justify passing off comments that were made out of context as in context remarks. It does not justify cutting and pasting parts of what I said and misrepresenting those decontextualized fragments in the way you have. (I asked, as one example, that you precisely budget an equivalent distribution between Iralliamite and Aitahist faiths in expenditures pertaining to religion in the future [ergo funding should henceforth be divided based on relative population], AND that you redress the lopsided support in favour of Aitahism, which I presume was unintended considering you sent me the order lists for religious spending, that occurred in previous years as was noted in the update through one time spending on Iralliamite temples in the Farubaida (I did not say donate that to the Church, or that as you seem to be implying that you should allocate 4 to 5k each turn to Iralliam). That conduct, however bad mine was (and it was bad) is not right.

In light of the above message as such, presuming of course you do not withdraw those out of context sections from an in context sphere and that this stoush remains as such unresolved, I will be obligated to respond to your, or rather the Farubaidas, remarks, in context, correcting their slanders and making some comments of my own in a less than positive light. I said quite honestly (ooc mind you) that this was something the Church would be inclined to do if its concerns were not assuaged and if you didn't talk with it in good faith. (actions have consequences, thus as you noted if its concerns about the Aitahist federation were not assuaged there would be good reason for the Church to condemn Aitahism as it has Indagahor) Misrepresentation of what I said, and the passing off of out of context remarks as in context in the way you have, even after I apologised quite sincerely for my untoward conduct in those messages, obviously displeases me and does not show that good faith of which I speak. Considering this, if we translate our out of context discussion to an in-context sphere (as you have disingenuously done), it would seem to indicate that the Church's fears are entirely valid, and entirely true.

-

EDIT: since we have plenty of time to resolve this "diplomatic crisis", I shall refrain from an in-context response for now to give you time to consider discussing this like civilised gentlemen. If however you insist upon neglecting to respond to the last message I sent (something thus far you have seemed as committed as an anchorite to doing) I will be forced to respond in kind to your statements, and let the chips fall where they may irrespective of how it may inconvenience various states.

-

EDIT II: The full In context message I sent to Iggy (correction of typological and grammatical errors included and noted)

Spoiler :
To: Helsia and the Farubaida o Caroha
From: The Grandpatriarchate

-

It has not escaped the attention of the Church of Iralliam that the Farubaida o Caroha, ostensibly a collection of equal and equivalent states nobly associate(d) for mutual defence and prosperity in the face of the threat of the Satar barbarians is unduly favouring the Aitahist religion and Aitahist regions, and marginalising the Faith of Iralliam and those constituent nations within the Farubaida where it is practiced.

This favouritism of Aitahism and certain constituent states, while neglecting the Irraliamite regions and religion in those areas where it is customarily practiced is reprehensible. Particularly so In consideration of the assistance the realms of Iralliam gave to the Aitahist nations against the Satar horde, assistance without which would of seen (ooc: I used "would see" here, ergo if that assistance did not occur the Satar would still be there, ergo I did not threaten the Farubaida at all, but noted the valuable role Iralliamite nations played in their liberation) the Satar retaining their dominion over your lands, and persisting in the persecution of your peoples and the Aitahist religion. The Farubaida owes its liberty to assistance from the followers of Iralliam and yet it repays them with marginalisation, and disrespect? It maintains the protection of Iralliamite nations and yet tramples the Church into the dirt and scoffs at the name of Opporia?

The Church requests an end to this disrespect and undue favouritism of Aitahism. It requests an equivalent and respectful equality of support in acknowledgement of the Farubaidas debt to Iralliam, and the presence of ostensibly equal Iralliamite nations in its federation. We would also ask, if the Farubaida is so inclined to show it is not an enemy of the faith or an ungrateful recipient of the faithful, that it redresses the previous abuses by supporting the construction of Iralliamite temples in those areas where Iralliam is practiced and in the major cities, for the community of the faithful to balance the excessive support of Aitahism to the neglect of Iralliam the Farubaida committed over the last ten years.

The Light of Opporia burn brightly in your souls

~ Grand Patriarch Aisen, High Priest of Opporia.
 
OOC: If you are concerned at all of Farubaidan Aitahism becoming a threat to you, then setting out to antagonize and insult the Farubaida runs the risk of creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

In general, the nations of the Farubaida have never paid tithes to Opios before, and it seems unlikely that they are going to start now. Ever since its inception, Iralliam in Helsia has been overseen with a light hand, which has suited Helsian Iralliamites perfectly well.

Also, while some of your PMs were OOC, I was under the impression that the motivations behind them were reflected by In-Character attitudes, which the Sarafaio would have picked up on.

So, I'm perfectly fine reposting our PMed discussion just to make things more clear, and then we can continue IC diplomacy from there.

Essentially, the whole core of my message can be boiled down to the last italicized section. The Farubaida does not desire a conflict with the Grandpatriarch or any other Iralliamite Nation, but the Pentapartite Council feels that Aisen is somewhat clumsily overstepping his authority, in a manner which could provoke the very hostilities that he (and we as well) would prefer to never ignite. As such, the Council wishes to affirm its good intentions, and warn that his actions are heavy-handed and, as they currently stand, unwelcome.

Also, North King can confirm that overall funding for spiritual edifices is split proportionally according to the prominence of religious beliefs in the Farubaidan population. That, I think, is the core of your concerns, and it was already in a fair state before you came to speak with me, so there shouldn't be much of an issue if we just let sleeping dogs lie here.
 
OOC: Firstly, it appears you misunderstood some of what I said and that this incomprehension is informing a somewhat erroneous response.

For example I never asked the Farubaida to tithe to Opios (which would be an absurd proposition) nor did I make any statement regarding increasing direct oversight over the Church in the Farubaida. What I did ask is that in its own expenditures on religious works, it actively ensure that proportional funding is given to both Iralliam and Aitahism in the future AND that to balance out previous disproportionate spending noted in the update, that the Farubaida spend a certain amount of money on Iralliamite temples this turn.

Then in the out of context posts I outlined a first proposal of 4k for that one time spending on Iralliamite temples (presuming you would argue it down somewhat as is usual in such diplomatic dialogue) and noted some of the context of why the Church was concerned for your benefit (such as the savage laws Masada mentioned, and the savagery of the Aitahists in the east in the immolation of a religious figure and suppression of Malinism) This of course does relate to the attitudes of the Church in context, they were explanations of the political background, but they are not statements the Church's emissary made and it was disingenuous of you to imply they were in your previous message.

-

Noting all that, as I previously noted I am happy to proceed with IC diplomacy, referring to the relevant statements in the apology post of mine (which contained a more reasonable alternate arrangement in response to your objections over the original 4k offer).

EDIT: noting your statement that the core of your message is that above the italics, and that below that refers to ooc stuff. It would be appreciated if you could delete those in-context references to out of context material.

-

sincerely

Jehoshua
 
None of those neat little OOC/IC distinctions were apparent in the PMs. (Iggy was good enough to send them to me for a laugh before this went public).
 
OOC: On the contrary, I noted I was speaking out of context in my reply to his in context speech thing. He then noted his accession to discussing things and the detail of any arrangement out of context and it proceeded from there. Iggy here has noted that already.

Naturally however of course when discussing the contextual background I used terms like "the Grand-patriarch would" or "The Church of Iralliam desires", I was trying to explain the point of view of the Church and make clear what its position was as stated in the IC statement. If as such you don't see a distinction between describing how a subject is thinking or its position, or in-context statements where the subject, namely the ecclesiastical emissary, is actually saying something than that's no skin off my back.
 
It wasn't clear and it still isn't.
 
ooc: As I said, its no skin off my back if you can't see a distinction. Namely because the discussion is between myself and Iggy and I'm not responsible for how your mind works.
 
It seems like every night is a bad night for Jehoshua :(
 
OOC: Why am I getting Wilhelm II flashbacks from this. :(
 
I giggled.
 
OOC: I would suggest cutting down on OOC messages in response to diplomacy, then, because from my vantage point, too, that was very confusing -- Iggy forwarded me various PMs from the conversation and I can't say that I saw a significant difference between the two. There's a reason the tags exist in the first place. In any case, even if we do take them to be OOC, it seems really quite dishonest to threaten someone's country in an OOC missive with the intent of getting a favorable reply IC, and then proclaiming them "OOC" (and therefore not repliable) when called on it in thread.
 
We must make a distinction, now, between gods and paths.

There are three types of men in this world, and this Exatai.

First, there are men who follow Taleldil, the God of Man, the God of Hope, the God of Wind and Thunder, who liberates men from their slavery to ancestors, spirits and demons masquerading as gods. And in godly men, both virtue and vice, darkness and light, are but tools to defend our freedom.

Then, are men who follow the false gods, evil spirits hiding behind masks of light and shadow to consume the souls of humanity in the afterlife. We know them by their names: Opporia, Aitah, Yleth. Even if they are virtuous, their virtue serves destruction, and if they are vicious, their evil corrupts.

Last, there are the men who follow no god at all. They do not affect the balance of the War in Heaven, and their freedom remains to them. In this life and the lives to come they may choose to join either the true god or the false gods, but as such their fate is not yet known. They may follow Paths, paths of Manin or Ytau. We may consider these but reflections of our own virtuous Path, the path of Exatas.

For the three different types of men, there must be three different fates.

What is the fate of the faithful man? To him accrues land, mask and membership in a Tribe. To him is allowed the place of honor in the princedom and the army. Only he may be a commander of men and an owner of slaves.

What is the fate of the worshiper of false gods? He is to be a slave. He has willfully cast away his freedom in the afterlife by choosing to worship a monstrosity, and so his freedom in this life will be taken away from him. No punishment can be accorded to those who kill such.

What is the fate of the worshiper of no god? He is to be left undisturbed. He may serve the godly men as a scribe, a scholar, a merchant, or an engineer, in the capacities that lack the honor of the warrior but do not lack value. A godless man may possess exatas, and may in time come to follow the God of Man along with his chosen path. In this, we see no sin, and no transgression.


-High Oracle Ikevhion-ta-Siaxis, On The Avetid Rule
 
OOC: I think it's important that OOC messages should not constitute diplomacy, but should be comment on the game, etc., whereas diplomacy should always be IC.

If someone says - for example - "OOC: King [...] of [...] would like to know what you would think of an alliance,"

the recipient's reply should surely be "OOC: why doesn't he ask us for an alliance, then?"

This convention is, of course, in practice sometimes bent; I might say, "Luckymoose, I want an alliance," for instance - but that isn't OOC; that's what's called "pseudo-OOC", or something similar, and is acknowledged by everyone to be equivalent to IC. This is one of the important unwritten conventions of NESing, surely - and this is what Jehoshua, from the looks of it, could reasonably be assumed to have been doing by Iggy. People may be unaware of this extremely widespread convention, but should note it, I think, for the future, because flouting it clearly leads to widespread confusion.
 
Yeah. I took Jehoshua's statements in his later PMs to be pseudo-OOC. They might have not been the Grandpatriarch's exact words, but the general gist was taken to be the same.
 
ooc: fair enough.
 
Am new to this part of the forum but would like to join on this game.

Culture name: Zarian
Society: The Zarian is a phratry bases society. In the clans there is clan leader, a Saelin (They are the priests of Sael), and a Bartagan (Vice leader). The leader role is to manage his clan’s affair, while the Bartagan is the military chief and replacement if the leader dies. People in the clan work in their roles whatever that role is and never dare to question it in fear of breaking one of Sael virtues. Each clans put more focus on one of the virtues then the others.
Lineage: Zarian clans all trace their lineage to Sael or his childrens. Saelin use a ritual to found out a person lineage. So if a baby is born between two different clans the Saelin has finally say and depending on which lineage the child is born under the family of that children have the chose to stay with their clan or move to the other clan that the children is born under. It is very common that family swith between clan because of lineage birth.
Values: Zarian values are groung in the 5 virtue of their Gods (Explain in the religion info at the bottom)
Religion name, Saelism: Zarian believe that in the beginning there was nothing. There were no mountains, there were trees, and there were no signs of any life. In this dark void one spirit came into existence. The spirit was golden and it name was Sael. Sael created 5 children to help created the world. These beings called names were Austi, Yardo, Vernn, Nildiss, and Salrynn. Salrynn created the water so the earth wouldn’t be so barren, Vernn created the plant and animals, Austi decide to glow brightly over the lands so that the earth wouldn’t always be so dark, Yardo raised some of the earth to make mountains, Nildiss made the clouds and the stars. Sael put the final touches on the earth by creating humans and spread them around the world that he and his children made . After creating man Sael order his 5 creation to help guide mankind knowing that with no guide human would fell into chaos and ruin.
Language(s): Zarian language is a complex language in that Zarian having a record of 19 characters in writing form and use multiply hands gestures.
Mythos: The Zarian believe that the 5 other being Sael created lead mankind into different direction and that Yardo lead them here.
Economic Base: The Zarian people take great pride in their agriculture skill in grow many tropical fruits like bananas, coconut, and mangos. Zarian lands also yielding great fishing areas for fishermens to prosper.
Nation Names: Zar, Goas, Herken, Pounew, Faldew
Person Names: Some Zarian would name their children after some of the gods (Yardo, Vernn, Austi, Salrynn, Nildiss, Meurn, Lobya, Joyota, Weu, Urgan)
Place Names: The clans believe the mountain to the west of them are call Yardo’s Mountains.

More Religion info:
Afterlife: The People of Saelism believe once you died your spirit will float into the sky were Sael and his 5 children await to see if your soul is worth being transferring to the resting place of Danvero. Those that have followed the 5 virtues will be able to go but those that haven't or have did crime that are go against these virtues will forever walk the earth as lost souls.

5 virtues of Saelism
1.Honor- One who live a honorable life live a full life.
2.Wisdom- Always learn from your mistakes or be doom to repent them.
3.Loyalty- One must be faithful to their love, children, and Kinsmen
4.Impartiality- Judge one as if you Judge yourself.
5.Obedience- each role must obey the one that above them or be doom to chaos.

Starting area
 

Attachments

  • Starting area.png
    Starting area.png
    4.8 KB · Views: 90
Top Bottom