The Ancient Mediterranean MOD

@SV: Good info, great.

@Caledorn: I'm pretty good with XML, too. But I have one problem with this version: When loading the mod, I get an error on Gemanic_Tribes.xml... I have NO CLUE what's wrong, I've checked everything but just can't find the problem. Can you look into it?
 
CIV4GameTextInfos_Germanic_Tribes.xml

Line 8

<Civ4GameText xmlns="http://www.firaxis.com">,

The comma at the end there is the reason for the error :)
 
thamis said:
@Caledorn: I'm pretty good with XML, too. -snip-

You would almost have to be - I'm very impressed by your XML files - they are excellently structured, and have a strong neatness to them. Working with you, if you want my help, is going to be my pleasure :)

Errors like that comma error are so annoying when they occur - after working with PHP for a couple of years now, I am all too familiar with the kind. One of the lifesavers I found to help me with that kind of errors for PHP was the Zend Development Suite - however, XML is a lot more difficult to create a similar environment for, giving the fact that the XML designer creates his own tagnames etc. In sorts, XML is both a blessing and a curse.

I've been following the development threads on the various XML tools for Civ4 in the Tools forum section, and I most sincerely hope that one or more of them are completed one of these days. Of course, I could probably sit down and program my own, but I'm not so sure PHP is the best tool for it, and I'm not all _that_ familiar with Python and other languages yet, even though I admire Python as a programming language very much. Learning Python is definitely on my todo list. ;)

The real bummer, though, would be if Firaxis actually has their own tool for editing all the XML files, which they just haven't released. I think quite a lot of the modders would feel like slowly castrating some Firaxians with whatever spoons and other various cutlery they might have available in that case. :goodjob: The XMLSpy comment tags does suggest otherwise though.:crazyeye:
 
Boudicca ought be a charioteer, not a axewoman.

I'd go some Persian general or satrap over Xerxes as hero - Pharnaces, Mardonius, Tissaphernes are some names that come to mind.

I think Theodericus (that's the usual Latin spelling, IIUC) deserves to be LH, not a mere hero. Possible replacements as hero include Alaricus, Teias - the last Ostrogoth king, supposedly a truly exceptional warrior -, and Ermannaricus.

Achilles as a phalanx makes no sense at all. But I suppose you know this.

Maybe replace Berber with Numidians or Mauretanians? More of a Classical feel to it, I think.

@Spirit_Viriato: Jaguars? You must mean some other animal, since jaguars never inhabited Iberia.
 
The Last Conformist said:
Boudicca ought be a charioteer, not a axewoman.



Achilles as a phalanx makes no sense at all. But I suppose you know this.

Once the SDK arrives I should be able to oblige(Boudicca).
Phalanx model is the currently the only one in-game thats fits as a placeholder at least.(Achilles)
 
@Caledorn:

Thanks for fixing that. That was a typo when I copied & pasted...

Regarding the tools. I know for a fact that Firaxis works with the professional edition of XML Spy (a mere $400 per copy). I use the home edition of XML spy (free), but it lacks the good grid view. It's just a better text editor with XML checking. ;)

I'm going to write a few more PHP tools like the city list generator. Unless someone comes up with a great editor first. ;)

@TLC:

It's hard to decide who is more important, Theoderich or Alarich. One of them is leader, the other hero. I think that fits just fine. I use the Germanic spelling, because they are Germanic people (just as I use the Greek spelling for Greek cities whenever possible). As long as the name is still recognizable...

Achilles as Phalanx: Well, he was a Greek warrior, and he fought with spear and shield. Thus, the Phalanx model is great.

Berber: Yes, I did look into Numidians or Mauretanians, but I didn't find any info for TAM-CIV3.

Boudicca: You are right. War Chariot.

@Indibil:

Welcome!
 
It might be too late, but I thought it also could be useful, if only for Civi or reference reasons.

It's taken from Bosch-Gimpera's 'La ETNOS IB&#201;RICA'. N&#250;m. 25, enero-febrero 1947, de los Cuadernos del Exilio. Editados en Coyoac&#225;n (M&#233;xico)'.

I wouldn't take it for 100% reliable and I sure will check its accuracy in following days.

The 5 greatest tribal agrupations in Hispania

1.- The "Pirenaics"

Basques

"We need to make clear that the pirenaic tribes, who stretched from Cantabria to the Western Catalan Pyrinees, are the descendants ... of the ancient franco-cantabric tribes that can be traced back to the Paleolitic. Their character is formed around and because of the territory they inhabited, the Pyrinees...Their Eastern tribes (Aragon Pyrinees and Catalan Pyrinees as well as their Cantabric counterparts loose their roots in the following periods, but they're in fact very similar in their origins to the basque country tribes. However, there's some tribes amongst those de-naturalised zones that keep most, if not all, their pirenaic traits: The Andosins (Andorra) and the Arenosis (Aranese Valley)" (page 82)

[It must be stablished that] "The actual inhabitants of the Basque country aren't in any way the descendants from the Iberic tribes, as Humboldt's classic theory states and somebody echoes. It is from the tribes originated in Almer&#237;a that we must search the roots of the Iberic tribes." (Page 83).

The Ceretan tribe (Spanish and French Cerdanya) was basically a Pirenaic tribe, though heavily influenced by the Capsian tribes.

2.- The Celts

Castellano-Leoneses

The Celt invasion waves:

The First Wave: (rejected by the Iberic tribes)

[They start their invasion] "Through the mediterranean coast (Tarragona and Salou) and make their way through the Iberic settlements in the Urgell Valley ... Until they reach the Ebro (El Molar), stablishing in all this area."

"Their arrival in those areas can be traced to 900 B.C. approximately and they stay in those areas until the Southern Iberic Tribes (Valencia, Almeria, Murcia) exterminate the Celts from their 'National Territory' in 650 B.C."

The Second Wave: Gets into Hispania through Navarra and stablishes in Castilla-Le&#243;n.

"The period of maximal influence of the Celt tribes in Hispania stretches from VIth C B.C. until IInd C B.C. They manage to subdue the Galassos (Galicia), Lusitanos (Portuguese) and the Pirenaic (Basque-Navarre), though they fail in their attempt to completely dominate the 'peninsula', as the Tartessos in the South and the Ibers in the Eastern Mediterranean Zones reject them. About the indigenous tribes that settled the Castilla-Le&#243;n zone little is known as they were completely exterminated by the Celts."

"The Lussitan tribes, although being heavily influenced by the Celt tribes, finally manage to break their dominance in IInd C B.C. and stablish their control in the Portugal and Extremadura zone."

"Although dominated as well by the Celts, the Pirenaic tribes didn't subdue to them and their culture and traits didn't suffer much from this period of dominance." (Page 135)

"It is believed, that although under heavy influence by the Celts and having their culture heavily 'Celticised' by this period of dominance, the Lussitanos and the Galassos didn't mix up with the dominant classes, mantaining the 'tribal' traits unchanged, even if they didnt manage to keep their original cultural traits". (Page 136)

3.- The Tartessos

Andalucia

"The Tartessian tribes managed to create a big confederation during the VIth C B.C in which they formed an alliance with some Southern Iberic tribes: The Bastetans, Deiatans and Mastiens. This later tribe was the dominant one amongst those Iberic Tribes.". (Page 148)

Mastiens, Bastetans and Deitans were the Iberic tribes that inhabited Almeria and Murcia. Although Iberic in their origins, those tribes were so heavily influenced by the Tartessians to make the first Greek scouts label them as Tartessian Tribes.

"This group of tribes in the Tartessian Confederation (Mastiens, Bastetans and Deitans) are Iberic Tribes in the sense that they are descendants from the ancient 'Almerian Tribe' [1st vestige of what today is called Iberic Culture]. Iberic Tribes in their strictest sense (Gimnetes-Contestans, Edetans and Ilergetes-Ilercavons with several other groups towards Nort-East Catalonia, stretching as far as the Roussillon and Montpelier) are the secondary expansion of this originary 'Almerian Tribe' towards the North.

The originary 'Almerian tribe' Group had strong commercial ties with the Tartessos. Those ties were strengthened during the Tartessos flourishment and thus the unification of those three Iberic Tribes under the Tartessian Confederation.

"The most ancient records (the Greek 'Periplo', Hecateu, VIth C BC) distinguish between Tartessos and Iberic Tribes, mentioning that some of those Iberic Tribes are under the Tartessos Confederation and others aren't."

"It is not until Herodor, 430 BC, that Tartessos are comonly labelled as 'Iberic Tribes'."

4.- The Iberic Tribes

The Catalan Speaking Zones in nowadays Spain and Southern France

The great cultural focus of those tribes and the place where they originated is in Alicante-Almeria.

Differences Between Iberic Tribes and Tartessos

Politic and Social: "Tartessia had a quite more advanced culture and refination than the Iberic Tribes. The later remained in a state that we could compare to that of the Bereber tribes: little agrupations around a village or a city, practically independant amongst them, that were only intertwinned with other [Iberic] tribes by Militar alliances when they felt threatened by others.

Their basis was quite democratic and equalitary, having a council formed by the 'Eldest' amongst each tribe (very much like the Bereber 'djemaa'. It is only under great threat that higher organization appears and kings and under-kings come to exist and reach hereditary rule (During the Roman conquest: Edetans (Edec&#243;) and Ilergetes (Indibil and Mandoni)". (Page 160).

Tartessos, in contrast to that organization, had a very marked social class: Aristocratic landlords, Aristocratic merchants, peasants, sailors, slaves); creating Monarchies formed by several cities. Those cities were under the rule of families of Princes. It was from the Confederation of those Monarchies that the Tartessian Confederation was born.

5.- Lusitans and Galessis

Portugal and Galicia

[Bosch-Gimpera thought previously to this book that the Lusitan tribes where indeed Iberic Tribes, though he rectifies this in this work] (page 164) There is really no suggestion in my investigation that supports this claim [them being Iberic Tribes]. Everything suggests that Lusitans would rather be an indigenous tribe that can be traced back to the Paleolitic whose culture was heavily influenced by the second Celtic wave. Their area of dominance would comprehend nowadays Portugal (except the northern provinces) and Extremadura.

Galessis: Northern Portugal and Galicia. Ethnically very simmilar to Lusitans and also heavily influenced in their culture by the second Celt Wave.

[Edit: Sorry for the umpteen typos, as it's a translation from a catalan text badly translated to spanish that I've rushedly translated into English. If the text is needed for whatever reasons I can devote more than the 70 minutes I've used to make this rough translation.]
 
Hey Thamis, how have you been? been a while =)

I've been wanting to work on TAM again since CIV4 came out, so that's good, heh. Don't mind if I join in the fun?

I've mostly thought about the units/promotions and military progression, not much else. I've nearly done a version with all the new promotions, but I kept the standard civ units with updated class type for promotions. I'll probably create all the new units soon and map them to vanilla civ4 techs, since I haven't thought about the tech tree either.

I also nearly finished a map, but I didn't have tons of time lately and I didn't really go further than making the bmps to convert it to civ4 format. It's 128x60 and covers less desert in the south and more land to the north and east, including the british islands. It is much more similar to your original TAM map, but I did rotate it a bit more.

I can send the BMPs to you, I think only the forests overlay BMP needs work, it was done in an hurry. I'll probably try to finish it during the holidays. No resources or wnything like that tho.

I'll probably use the wiki to add units, promotions and such if you don't mind. A couple buildings too since I've been wanting to try something new with civ4:

Instead of units requiring copper/bronze/iron/etc., I want to allow everyone to build any kind of units. However, each available metal gives you +XP when building units. So if you don't have any copper, tin or iron, you can still build swordsman. However, someone with iron would maybe get +4/6 XP when building swordsman.

To get the effect, maybe have a building "Blacksmith, Copper" that requires copper and gives +2XP, "Blacksmith, Bronze" +4XP, "Blacksmith, Iron" +6XP or something like that. Or maybe just edit it when the SDK comes out and only requires a generic Forge that chooses which XP bonus to give depending on available metals.

Oh, and the most important question....

Where are *my* Assyrians?? :mad: :p
 
Damn Thamis, you've done it again!

I remember putting Civ III on the back shelf until I saw TAM, and it rapidly became my all-time favourite game to play. I found it incredibly well balanced, and a pure joy to play, not to mention being awestruck about the historical accuracy and work that went into the proper placement of natural resources.

I only wish that I was able to assist you with XML and graphics. As it is, most of my own historical focus has been on Eliz. England and Republican Rome -- the first is unsuited to this project, and the second is so widely known as to make me just another voice in the crowd.

One thing I would like to ask though -- are there any plans for alternate leaders to throw a little variation between games? If so I'd like to suggest Gaius Marius as an alternate for Rome. His traits would most likely be Aggressive and Organized.

-Mike
 
I was thinking re: Quintus Sertorius (and the legion) as an Iberian UU.
You may want to change Iberia's UU to some form of cavalry, since that region was known for its horses and provided Rome with much of its cavalry forces until the conquest of Sarmatia.
 
Karhgath said:
So if you don't have any copper, tin or iron, you can still build swordsman.

Looked at my promotion mod?


Karhgath said:
So if you don't have any copper, tin or iron, you can still build swordsman.

Maybe they should be built slower too if you don't have the resource as someone else suggested.
 
Top Bottom