RevolutionDCM for BTS

Here is my current save file from the game I just wrote up. I have not advanced it yet from that point. I thought some of you would like to fire this up and do some of the dirty work so to speak It's all just for fun, though anyway

It's 1802AD, the newly conquered cities of formerly great Egypt are restless. You control the Apistollic Pallace, but it only holds sway with Jewish believers. Should you wish to wielf the power of the Pallace, you'll have to convert many of your cities to Judaism to increase your influence, and you may need to change your state religion to Judaism.

You may also want to consider blitzing the rest of Ramsess' cities to the North...but you must always keep a wary eye on China...the Tiger in the West...

Elsewhere, Mansa Musa reigns over his technological empire, bathing in his wealth, and the western end of the Old World is full of chaos and civil wars. In the New World, young nations are being born...how will you deal with them?

is it about to go out the version 2.0 of of "Rise of Mankind", a new version of RevolutionDCM mod it will also go out?

Thanks a lot for all this mods,game experience it's superb!

kwarriorpoet said:

Here is my current save file from the game I just wrote up. I have not advanced it yet from that point.

Click to expand...

Although still in the middle of a late game RevDCM0.2 game, it's a good idea to share around *interesting* game saves that are actually like a full blooded "scenario". Doesn't happen often that the complexity level meshes perfectly with the moment, but when it does it's cool. Some scenario's are complicated enough to be able to get more than one human head involved I think. Your game settings are almost standard which make the concept even better. Cool.

@dasvidania and deon
Jdog is getting hit with small bugs on his latest Revolution releases as he attempts to wrap up this version and concentrate on a new even better Revolutions. So for now, I'm gunna have to wait until the bugs get sorted out before attempting another release of RevolutionDCM.

@anyone
I'm pleased to report that the UN has been built and utilised by the AI on aggressive AI setting which seems to confirm that leader attitude and unit production are the main changes on aggressive AI. I will probably never play another game without aggressive AI turned on. It seems to make for a more competitive game on Monarch. With around 28 nations on a huge terra map in the 21st century and in the midst of a world war, time between turns is around 2-4 minutes on a Intel Duo T5400 CPU which makes the late game still worth while to play in my humble opinion. With two Gigs of RAM this type of computer makes for the perfect CIV 4 RevolutionDCM computer but probably totally obsolete when Civ 5 comes along......

Cheers.

@Glider1

I am particularly interested in knowing if you experience any MAFs. I mean 28 civs on a huge terra and already beyond 2000, even with 2GB it seems pron to MAFing. By the way, do you toss in VD for flavor or do you go with plain BTS + RevolutionDCM.

I've been contemplating the idea of turning off time limit along with domination, and culture victories on a huge terra map. I just don't wonna invest in such game if MAFs would make it impossible at some moment to keep going.

Hi Glider. I'm getting a hang - that is the turn time never ends and I have to end process with task manager.

I'm playing revolution/inquisition.
My question is where should I post the bug report and save ?? Here or in the rev/inq thread ?

Kalimakhus said:

@Glider1

I am particularly interested in knowing if you experience any MAFs. I mean 28 civs on a huge terra and already beyond 2000, even with 2GB it seems pron to MAFing. By the way, do you toss in VD for flavor or do you go with plain BTS + RevolutionDCM.

I've been contemplating the idea of turning off time limit along with domination, and culture victories on a huge terra map. I just don't wonna invest in such game if MAFs would make it impossible at some moment to keep going.

Click to expand...

By MAF I had to think for a moment. I think you mean disk fragging and not "Mass Air Flow" which I get too

I think the trick is to have plenty of graphics memory. I run this game I've been playing for the last two months between two different computers. On the XP box the graphics card has 512MB of dedicated memory. Thus the 2G system memory handles disk swapping pretty well. You are right that it does take a huge chunk of memory and the game takes up to five minutes to load initially. However once loaded, it swaps to the desktop back and forth real nice. On the Vista x64 box the graphics card has only 256MB of dedicated RAM and so part of the rest is shared with system memory. However the disk swapping algorithms in Vista x64 are noticeably more efficient and so halving the graphics memory has no effect. All in all it's really stable so long as you turn off certain DCM components known to be volatile.

I was "incorrect" last post on time between turns in the 21st century. It can be highly variable but seems to be in the region of 2-6 minutes per turn on a core duo. Now that's not bad at all considering that on normal speed, the detail per turn is so high that during a war, I'm easily spending 45 minutes on a single turn dealing with all the various issues...

As for the late game, it is a hell of a lot of fun most definitely if you have colonised and are running DCM. Dale's work like fighter engagement add to the tactics. Strategically, it is really hard to hold a big colony abroad because of various civil instabilities combined with conquered leaders that re-emerge in unstable regions in the new world. What also is cool is that inevitably, the minor civ that was inhabiting the fertile temperate regions of the new world before you arrived, if not quickly *removed* expand rapidly and become a major player in the new world. They tend to fall under your radar because their growth is so meteoric that you imagine they can't be competition...but on aggressive ai.....they are.

Also, the minor civs that become full blown in the new world, can actually fight each other for a while until they sense that you are stealing a lot of territory from them as a coloniser, and they will stop warring each other and begin to cooperatively harass the coloniser. In my game now I am facing a situation where Hatshepsut and Napoleon were fighting it out big time in the new world. I propped up the weaker party Napoleon to maintain the status quo so that I could continue colonising in peace after having conquered Japan there. However now Hatshepsut and Napoleon have made up, Hatshepsut has invaded me big time and Napoleon is harrassing me psychologically threatening to DOW. Simultaneously, the conquered leader Toku keeps re-emerging in unstable regions of the new world, and whenever he does so, my colonised population cheer for him behind closed doors, whenever I turn my back on them.....

There is still a lot of fun late game but you are completely correct to say that crashes and computer slowdowns would be a big kill joy. I recommend a 512MB graphics card on XP combined with 2G ram and a Core Duo processor. That should keep the monkey off one's back so long as you never ever entertain the idea that such a computer would be adequate for CIV 5 if that were ever to emerge.....

As for the late game monkey on your back, there is one other issue. Obsession. To control the deep immersive psychological split with reality that one faces playing civ and restrict game hours to just an hour or so a day, you have to take notes. I run notepad in the background and record the "history" of the game as it unfolds. This way I get a sense of continuity in my mind which is nothing more than a psychological "trick" that I use that gives me the ability to stop playing for the day or night and get on with the real world, feeling that there is a thread between one game session and the next that I can let go of...However that notepad narrative "thread" is already up to three thousand words in only one game!

Cheers.

PS) Yeah I've thought about turning off domination victory too. However under Revolutions, it's very difficult for an AI to pull off a domi victory so it's not an issue. A human can achieve it though even with Revolutions running. At some point your people love you for all that conquering I've never contemplated turning off culture wins, because if an AI actually does win by culture on aggressive ai, as far as I'm concerned they deserve it!

mice said:

Hi Glider. I'm getting a hang - that is the turn time never ends and I have to end process with task manager.

I'm playing revolution/inquisition.
My question is where should I post the bug report and save ?? Here or in the rev/inq thread ?

Click to expand...

Not sure what "inquisitions" is but there are so many reasons why a machine can hang it's hard to give advise. If you can narrow down the fault to a mod component, then definetly post to the bug forum of that mod. Dale with DCM in particular likes save game uploads that target the exact nature of the problem, so that he can debug. Jdog on Revolutions seems to have the intuitive ability to debug without a save game in many cases.

Cheers.

Kalimakhus said:

@Glider1

By the way, do you toss in VD for flavor or do you go with plain BTS + RevolutionDCM.

Click to expand...

Although tempted by the graphics candy of VD, I just keep it too pure unadulterated game play revolving tactics and strategy on RevolutionDCM. The default unit graphics are fine for me except that I do merge "Better Ship Scale" for myself (if you or anyone is interested let me know). Ships look much better to my eyes simply by changing their scale.

However, it would be impossible for me to live without Dales battle effects graphics. Zooming out to the globe view looking at the world from space, and being able to see conflict regions burning below, is just too much coolness.

Cheers.

glider1 said:

Not sure what "inquisitions" is but there are so many reasons why a machine can hang it's hard to give advise. If you can narrow down the fault to a mod component, then definetly post to the bug forum of that mod. Dale with DCM in particular likes save game uploads that target the exact nature of the problem, so that he can debug. Jdog on Revolutions seems to have the intuitive ability to debug without a save game in many cases.

Cheers.

Click to expand...

wow ,i get stupider every year. I mixed you up with jdog. He put out a mod comp called revolution/inquisition that merged in the inquisiton mod. - sorry, wrong forum.

Anyway i played from a much earlier save and it solved the issue. I think it was a problem with Darius appearing. I the second play through, Darius wasnt picked, Cyrus was. There may be some issue with Darius.

Jdog's latest build of Revolutions (1.42) has not had any stability issues so I have spent the time to incorporate it into another build of RevolutionDCM. Check the readme for more information.

Some more observations on game balance starting options under RevolutionDCM:

1) Space race win on a huge map on monarch difficulty is too easy for the human. This is because a human's civilisation often contains so many cities allowing the human to multitask space ship construction far better than the AI. On a standard map size with less cities available to the human, the issue is not as bad. This is because the human cannot multitask the construction as easily and is forced to serialize the construction in a similar fashion to the AI. Conclusion: on huge maps the space race win option = OFF

2) On Terra maps, to inhibit the tendancy for one nation in the northern temperate region to become a global super power and thus dominate the geopolitics of the globe for the rest of the game, start a Terra map with double the numbers of initial starting civs relative to the default number for the map size. This has the tendancy to break up the super power earlier, before they have time to integrate their society properly.

3) On toroidal huge terra maps on aggressive AI, monarch level and space race victory turned off. In this combination the AI builds big armies and is not distracted by the space race. Because the AI can attack by sea in all directions, they then generally have more chance of success with naval warfare partly because of the element of surprise they have available to them. Although the human has the same benefit and can exploit that benefit even better than the AI, the human does not necessarily have a military strength advantage in order to utilise it. This is a good game option as well because it makes playing as a tundra civ more fun. The tundra civ can engage northward or southward by sea and conquer other rival tundra nations as a strategic option.

4) Culture win and aggressive AI - Although aggressive AI is a very good option to consider, as far as I can tell the AI will not pursue a culture win strategy on aggressive ai (not fully sure of this). On normal aggression, it is capable of occasionally achieving a noteable cultural victory.

Any thoughts?
Cheers.

These starting options are interesting indeed:

1) Woowee under RevolutionDCM latest build, you have the option to start all civs including yourself as a minor civ and thus total war. Combine this with archer bombardment and the pre-writing phase is very interesting indeed. Diplomacy seems to begin on neutral terms only once writing begins. Thoughts?

2) Experiments with Terra map resource options reveal that "standard" distributes all types of resources in both the new and old worlds. However "balanced" is not at all balanced. It should be called "unbalanced". In this distribution, all types of resources are distributed in the old world but very little variety of luxuries or other resources in the new world. The effect of the latter could be very interesting. Minor civs in the new world will always struggle relative to the old world but it all depends on how the old world plays out itself. Colonization of the new world would hypothetically be easier to achieve but more difficult to hold onto because the new world returns are less. It could make colonization less attractive. At a guess it would seem to make the new world very unstable and changeable as well, with constant colonial successes and failures against minors in a low resource yield environment. Thoughts?

Cheers.

A new release of RevDCM is out now combining in Influence Driven War. It appears to be very stable but the court is out on what effect it will have on game balance in a Revolution and DCM context.

Started game last night with RevDCM's newest version and had some fun Early in the game when I had just 4 cities built the revolution part started to kick and I wasn't exactly prepared for that, had no gold to bribe the cities so eventually I lost control of my empire and AI player started playing it for some 30 turns. During this time one barbarian city nearby converted to chinese city state and waged war.. I had Great Wall but that didn't help anymore since those attackers weren't barbarians anymore. Watched how AI tried to defend my cities - I got control back just at the end of war, enemy had one troop left near my city and I had one troop inside the city. Luckily I was able to kill it.

Now after this I noticed one thing. The plot that was used near city by those attackers is marked as battlefield and there's smoke coming out even though it's now dozen turns or more since there was war in that square. That plot was turned to battlefield when AI was controlling my empire and now that I'm back in control, that plot doesn't change back to normal state. It worked correctly in other plot where I was killing barbarians before this whole revolution thing. Might be small bug somewhere?

I'm enjoying this so here's for you. Got to play this more to see how the influence driven war mod component affects game once most of the map is under control of players.

@Zappara

Battle effects can be annoying. I usually turn them off as they also add load on the display card. Anyway the number of turns the battle effect will continue to exist on a plot is supposed to be based on how many battles took place there. Each combat between two units counts as a battle. So a stack of ten attacking another of the same size will count as ten battles. Battle effect lasts for two turns per each battle so in the above example it would last for 20 turns. Now I don't personally like this formula but it is how Dale implements this thing. Bottom line I turn it off and live with a clear view. BTW the sound effect as well seems too much especially when it is all about a punch of pathetic warriors kicking each others butts in the wilderness.

@glider

Thanks for the new version. Now with IDW in the mod it truly represents that way I think Civ4 should be from game play point of view. This is with only minor exceptions to be honest. Enhanced Tech Conquest and a couple of Shqyp's SDK components are these exceptions. Of course this is a personal point of view though when it comes to Revolution and DCM I am quite sure many people agree with me that they define the future of any coming CivV (if indeed this will be developed).

I have released a new version of my Add-On that integrates RevolutionDCM into Rise of Mankind. Needless to say I am quite grateful for your work as it spares me a lot of time and pain.

Concur that battle effect duration is not working properly in some cases. It is true that it does slow the graphics card in some cases no doubt about that.

At this stage it is still going to be interesting with IDW. It's a solid concept no doubt. The question is the AI.....
Cheers.

zappara said:

Started game last night with RevDCM's newest version and had some fun Early in the game when I had just 4 cities built the revolution part started to kick and I wasn't exactly prepared for that, had no gold to bribe the cities so eventually I lost control of my empire and AI player started playing it for some 30 turns.

Click to expand...

The really good thing here is that you just let the chaos happen without giving up. Yes Revolution is more difficult but the rewards are also greater if you get it right. Handing over control to the AI is never an easy thing to do psychologically. When this happens the way to think of it is like you did, when you get control back, it's a new scenario, a new challenge.

Cheers.

@glider1

Yea, it was bit odd situation just to sit there and watch AI play those turns - actually I think it did lot better job there than I did At least I learnt to use slavery more effectively

zappara said:

@glider1

Yea, it was bit odd situation just to sit there and watch AI play those turns - actually I think it did lot better job there than I did At least I learnt to use slavery more effectively

Click to expand...

Agree on that. I lost control of my leadership too. The AI seemed to switch in and out of slavery for specific reasons where as I tended to set, forget and pay the price!

Cheers.