Unofficial BTS 3.13 patch

A similar instance with the workboat, which I'm sure many of you have seen, is a resource that is outside the cities Fat cross. Your own build list will continue to list the Wboat even though you will get no direct benefit from sending 1 to that resource tile. The tile is In your area of Influence but if you send the Wboat and it *nets* the fishies you don't get any benefit from it. Why waste the time and effort to send the wboat there? The AI will do it too.

Even if the resource is half a world away but in your area of Influence ALL your cities will list Wboat in the build list. So if I build one in China and set it on Auto it will travel if possible to New York to claim that resource that you will get no benefit from. That seems futile to me.

JosEPh

If a resource is within your cultural borders, you DO get direct health or happiness benefit; it doesn't have to be within a city's fat cross (!). I think it's coded to look for unimproved resources.

That said, I think the suggested build list may be placing too much emphasis on unimproved resources anywhere in your territory, at least in some cases like this. Then again, I never really pay attention to those list recommendations.
 
Thanks, I should try that out. Unfortunately, when I tried reinstallation the other day, Windows saw it fit to keep Bhruic's patch installed, so that when I updated to 3.13 again after reinstalling BtS, Bhruic's DLL wasn't replaced and the game remained patched.

When I first downloaded the patch, just swapping the DLLs as the Readme suggests didn't upgrade the game to Bhruic's patch. I had to use grumbler's automated .exe to do the work for me, even though I have no idea why following the Readme's instructions didn't work. I'll probably have to manually delete every trace of BTS or else reinstall all of Civilization IV to be sure.

When I start the game by simply replacing Bhruic's DLL with the backed-up original DLL, the loading screen with different languages pops up, but then after it goes away Windows Vista says that the program stopped working. No Civ IV warnings, no crashing. It just doesn't start up past the loading screen.
Reinstalling might be the easiest option - if you want to work it out though please create a new thread in the Tech Support section and we could try to figure out what is the problem - I just don't want to clutter this thread with stuff like that.
I would suggest: uninstall BtS and delete all BtS folders manually, then reinstall and if it still does not work - post in the Tech Support section...
 
Weighting Food v. Hammers v. Commerce for a city spot depends on what you want it for

In any case if the total is low for Either of the first two, the spot is less valuable, because they are resources that NEED to be local (hammers for buildings and Food to grow/sustain population)

Among other things it depends on your strategy (especially considering hammers v. commerce)

in any case the range of values would be

1 hammer = 1 to 3 commerce (Wealth v. US+upgrades)

Food is more complicated given its role in growth and maintenance
 
Is this FAD? I have the Civil Service Tech and I want to Irrigate the tiles next to a City but not near any fresh water. The city is on a hill and also near fresh water therefore it gets a health bonus and it is also on a hill. My problem is I can't irrigate the tiles next to the city even though the city is next to a fresh water source.

Is it normal that I can't irrigate tiles near a city on a hill even though the city is connected to fresh water?

Note the tile is a normal tile you can irrigate eg- Plains and Grassland.
 
That's normal. Hills can't be irrigated, so a city on a hill won't spread irrigation.

ah k thanks, although they should put this information somewhere in the civpedia or at least on the Civil service tech because I was confused why I could irrigate a tile I wanted to irrigate for a while.
 
Reinstalling might be the easiest option - if you want to work it out though please create a new thread in the Tech Support section and we could try to figure out what is the problem - I just don't want to clutter this thread with stuff like that.
I would suggest: uninstall BtS and delete all BtS folders manually, then reinstall and if it still does not work - post in the Tech Support section...
Deleting all the folders manually and installing the patch as a mod (thanks again, Grumbler!) worked perfectly, at least from the testing I just made. Thanks for the help, and I'm off to enjoy some Bhruic goodness.
 
Deleting all the folders manually and installing the patch as a mod (thanks again, Grumbler!) worked perfectly, at least from the testing I just made. Thanks for the help, and I'm off to enjoy some Bhruic goodness.

Did you uninstal the game? I tried unistalling and reinstalling BTS with no luck, the patch will not go!!! The last resort is to uninstall all Civ games clean my pc and make a new instalation.
 
i hear that if you do that and blockade their seafood sources, even if you don't pillage their fishing boats, they keep making workboats. and keep making them, and keep making them. the fishing boats are still in place, but the civ doesn't get credit for the resource since it's blockaded, i guess that confuses them.

I haven't found any evidence that it gets confused about improved tiles that are blockaded. Are you sure that there weren't unimproved water resources in some other location that it was making fishing boats for?

The test I did, the city just built endless amounts of Triremes. My blockading ship blocked 7 different water resources, so it should have qualified to trigger building work boats.

Another possibility - any chance workboats were the only naval units that they could build?

if you're blockading them you're trying to cripple them anyway. but that's just a really pathetic level of stupid, and it makes me sad. they're building workboats they wouldn't need to use even if they could get to the fish!

It's rather odd the lack of code surrounding blockading. I can't find a single routine to determine if a city is blockaded. Only individual tiles.

Bh
 
I wonder if it might be possible to correct the "best defender" heuristics. For example, I just invaded a city that was down to two Cavalry, one with Combat II and the other with Combat II and Formation (+25 vs. Mounted). I attacked with an Infantry, and the one with Formation defended. Why? The one without Formation is a better defender because I have my own Cavalry standing by to invade next. And when a unit has extra promotions that are irrelevant to the battle at hand, shouldn't that actually be considered a disadvantage? Presumably you would rather lose a less experienced unit that can fight the current fight just as well.

Well, I suppose there are other considerations, such as sometimes when you think your defender will win, you want it to be the one with the most XP so you can keep advancing it. But it just seems like 99.999% of the time in these situations, the computer picks units with extra useless-in-context promotions to be the sacrificial lambs, to the detriment of the defending Civ.
 
It's rather odd the lack of code surrounding blockading. I can't find a single routine to determine if a city is blockaded. Only individual tiles.

Well this seems to add up. I blockaded one of Tokugawa's cities, and it turned out that my privateer was sitting in the only sea access the city had. The city built 10 caravels and never tried to end the naval siege of the city. It was like this for a long time, so it was no fluke.

At first I though the AI was just too stupid to throw a bunch of caravels at a single privateer, but this is not the case. Another game I was blockading in a more open environment. The other civ threw caravels at it until they took it down.

There definitely seems to be a problem with ships fighting their way out of cities.
 
Did you uninstal the game? I tried unistalling and reinstalling BTS with no luck, the patch will not go!!! The last resort is to uninstall all Civ games clean my pc and make a new instalation.
I uninstalled BtS only, then deleted all of the Beyond the Sword folders manually within Program Files as well as the ones in the My Games folder found in My Documents.

I then reinstalled BtS, upgraded to the official 3.13 patch (had it downloaded and set aside for future use), and used Grumbler's automated installer to install Bhruic's patch as a mod.

That seemed to do it; a quick check to see if the official BtS bugs were in place (like culture that buildings provide isn't shown in the building queue) was enough of a visual check to confirm the patch was official.
 
I haven't found any evidence that it gets confused about improved tiles that are blockaded. Are you sure that there weren't unimproved water resources in some other location that it was making fishing boats for?

i'm sure that i didn't see any, using both ctrl-r and ctrl-y, and that chipotle didn't think they needed any workboats. but every time i pillaged a fishing boat, chipotle would show "workboats needed = 1" when i held down ctrl hovering over their city.

maybe the cities already had workboats in their queues from when i was testing the whole thing, when resources were pillaged before i went into WB and netted all their fish and got them to "workboats needed = 0" status. so they didn't realize "oh i don't need these workboats any more", and i just didn't wait long enough for that queue clearing even tho i thought i did. that wouldn't be a bug i suppose, since it's not a situation that would come up except in PAs, where somebody could do your worker tasks for you and eliminate your need for workboats/workers.

i just found it mysterious that they had the power to disobey chipotle, if chipotle is linked to the all-powerful city governor :lol:. they might not be linked, or i might not have been patient enough.

The test I did, the city just built endless amounts of Triremes. My blockading ship blocked 7 different water resources, so it should have qualified to trigger building work boats.

Another possibility - any chance workboats were the only naval units that they could build?

my case was a whole network of ships collectively blocking a bunch resources, not just one ship blocking them. the resources weren't clumped together conveniently that way. the little cities would make the work boats, the bigger cities would make caravels.
 
Probably, that's why you should make a backup of the old file. Then just move Bhruic's file, put the original file back in place, then install the official patch. If there are still problems, Bhruic will probably try to fix them. Won't you, Bhruic? :trouble:
 
I have a question before I install this patch:

Will it screw up my game when I try to download the next official patch?

Probably, that's why you should make a backup of the old file. Then just move Bhruic's file, put the original file back in place, then install the official patch. If there are still problems, Bhruic will probably try to fix them. Won't you, Bhruic? :trouble:
Actually NO ;) this patch will simply be overwritten by any new official patch, don't scare people :p
There is a negligible chance that any new official patch will have any problems with this patch - go ahead Mattimeo: install it, its great :goodjob:
Edit: and if you want to be absolutely sure you can use grumbler's installer and install it as a mod.
 
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