Tomatekh's Historical Religion Mods

Just tested it; Norway founds Forn Sidr correctly for me - just to ascertain that it's not a problem on my end.

Added a Protestant Denominations mod by request:

Steam / Civfanatics

Let me know if there are any problems as I used a template to code it instead of from scratch.

That was speedy! This will make the game all the more interesting. Thank you, Tomatekh, for another great addition to your Historical Religions family.

JFD said:

That was speedy! This will make the game all the more interesting. Thank you, Tomatekh, for another great addition to your Historical Religions family.

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Glad you like it. When they all have established names, symbols, and easy to find descriptions online, it doesn't take that long to put a pack together. The most time consuming part of the main pack is usually researching the lesser known religions. Let me know if you want me to make any changes.

Thanks a lot. <waiting for the cult of Aten to come>

Just in case anyone was wondering, the weird txt_key naming conventions is to keep the religions in a specific order in BNW games (as BNW does alphabetical order based on the txt_key). So for example: TXT_KEY_RELIGION_CHRISTIAN_5_1_LUTHERAN

JFD said:

Just tested it; Norway founds Forn Sidr correctly for me - just to ascertain that it's not a problem on my end.

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Hmm........I wonder why it doesn't do that for me? I got around it by making it directly pick a religion the way Hungary does but that's still strange......

Tomatekh said:

Just in case anyone was wondering, the weird txt_key naming conventions is to keep the religions in a specific order in BNW games (as BNW does alphabetical order based on the txt_key). So for example: TXT_KEY_RELIGION_CHRISTIAN_5_1_LUTHERAN

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I was indeed. Although Judaism is always breaking the alphabetical order - at least when all pack - sans the Edited version - are used; always coming before Akattu-u.

Skaz881 said:

Hmm........I wonder why it doesn't do that for me? I got around it by making it directly pick a religion the way Hungary does but that's still strange......

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Dunno. Either the other method I'll use will work, or Tomatekh may be better off adding support in Historical Religions internally instead, seeing as no other mods outside of mine have this issue.

JFD said:

I was indeed. Although Judaism is always breaking the alphabetical order - at least when all pack - sans the Edited version - are used; always coming before Akattu-u.

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Argh, I have to look into why Judaism is doing that.

The txt_keys for the protestant pack are extra convoluted because it can work as an add-on to an add-on. Usually, I just do _CHRISTIAN_ or _ISLAM_ to keep them grouped.

JFD said:

Dunno. Either the other method I'll use will work, or Tomatekh may be better off adding support in Historical Religions internally instead, seeing as no other mods outside of mine have this issue.

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I think the problem is linked to another problem where some peoples game's are ignoring mod load order that's set when referencing mods in modbuddy. I don't know what's causing this, though, as your civs always choose the correct religions when I use them so its hard to test on my end.

I'll add your civs into the mod files sometime this week.

Is any chance for Gnostic Christianity, Arianism and Monophysitism?

The new Protestant pack looks nice, that could definitely help when lots of Protestant civs spawn on a map.

So, I guess I should probably open up a separate thread about the reference thing, since it's apparently not directly linked to these mods, then.

Crixler said:

The new Protestant pack looks nice, that could definitely help when lots of Protestant civs spawn on a map.

So, I guess I should probably open up a separate thread about the reference thing, since it's apparently not directly linked to these mods, then.

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The thing is, I can't 100% say for sure they're not directly linked to these mods. I know that on my computer I can't replicate the problem, but that doesn't completely rule it out. There aren't that many groups of mods built to reference each other like my add-on packs, so even if it wasn't my mods it wouldn't be a common problem you'd run into.

dilophosaur said:

Is any chance for Gnostic Christianity, Arianism and Monophysitism?

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Oriental Orthodoxy is Monophysitism; they're the group of Christian churches that split off after the Council of Chalcedon.

In terms of Gnosticism, well, the thing is that Gnosticism wasn't really a religion by itself. It was more a general religious trend at the time, which is why I've never added "Gnosticism" into the mod. With that said, both Mandaenism and Manichaeism in the main mod are gnostic religions. Mandaenism in particular sort of fills the role of a very Abrahamic influenced gnostic religion.

Arianism, however, doesn't really have a counterpart in my current mods, and it would be used by my Goths mod. Originally, with G&K, adding denominations wasn't really a thing, so it didn't concern me at the time. With my current Christian pack (if you consider Mormonism as representative of Restorationist Christianity) it represents the major living divisions of Christianity. I'm not really too concerned at the moment with making additional Christian packs representing the important "dead" denominations. There's a whole lot of them, many of which were important such as the Cathars, but I just feel they wouldn't see much use. Even in terms of just for my Goths mod, Norse religion is perfectly acceptable and already included in both versions of the main mod.

Yup, thanks for the info about Arianism (I was thinking about the Goths). The rest is as it is.

dilophosaur said:

Yup, thanks for the info about Arianism (I was thinking about the Goths). The rest is as it is.

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Well, it's also because I currently have 10 versions of Christianity. I may come back to them, but it wouldn't be before working on some other packs.

There are a couple of things that I have been wondering about the Hinduism pack. If Smartism is modern Hinduism, why wouldn't it be the preference for modern India? I was also wondering which countries or kingdoms would have followed Shaktism.

Skaz881 said:

There are a couple of things that I have been wondering about the Hinduism pack. If Smartism is modern Hinduism, why wouldn't it be the preference for modern India? I was also wondering which countries or kingdoms would have followed Shaktism.

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Smartism isn't really modern Hinduism per se. It's a more recent non-sectarian denomination, which I guess makes it "modern" but it's not modern Hinduism in the sense that that's what every Hindu practices today.

Vashnavism is still the largest followed sect of Hinduism today (both in India, and I believe abroad), and Gandhi was raised Vaishnavite (his religion later in life was more pan-religious with Hindu and Jain undercurrents than strictly Hindu).

But, if you're just looking for a civ to give it to, and use the India pack, modern India wouldn't be wrong.

As for Shaktism, I don't believe it was ever a state religion. It is one of the oldest sects, and it's always have a very strong folk element.

The part in Shaktism's description about the serpent made me think of Southeastern (and I believe Indonesian) myths involving Nagas and other serpentine motifs throughout Southeastern Asian culture. I wonder if those influenced Shaktism (or the other way around)?

So as a minor update to my situation, for a while, all the religions that were renamed in denomination packs were still using their original names (Buddhism instead of Theravada, Islam instead of Sunni, etc). This is still the case, actually, with the exception of Sunni, which recently started showing up with the correct name. But Theravada is still Buddhism, Lutheranism is still Protestantism, and Smartism is still Hinduism.
It's weird, because not only should the references probably be loading the mods in the right order, but I even made sure to check them in the right order.

Is there anything different about the way the Islam pack works that would make it load correctly when the others still don't?

Edit: I'm going to try messing with the modinfo files a bit, going to see what happens if I set Historical Religions as a dependency rather than a reference.

Edit 2: Success! All the denomination packs are now working correctly. I do not know if my other earlier issue of certain civs (such as JFD's Norway) not selecting their preference is fixed or not, as I haven't had much time to play lately.
While I was messing with the references and dependencies, I noticed that many of the denomination packs listed had references that looked like 'expansions, historical religions(/edit), various civs'. But a few of the denomination packs instead had references that looked more like 'expansions, various civs, historical religions(/edit)'. I'm not sure if reference order matters, but if so, couldn't that actually cause the looping reference thing you previously mentioned?

Namely, the Buddhist and Hindu packs, which have different orders and both include the India pack.



And the Protestant one references the Christian pack before it references Historical Religions.
The only pack that doesn't have any inconsistent ordering to it is the Islam pack, which is also the only one that was showing the correct religion names.

Hmm, well the reason why the references are the mess is that Modbuddy doesn't let you change the order of the references (without deleting them all and re-entering them). So, the current order is based more around when I updated a mod and what new mods had been released since then.

It's possible the reference order is causing a problem, although I'm not too sure (since it does work for others using the mod with the current reference order). I'll try setting them all to a standard order just in case, though.