Sandkasten

Here's an updated version to reflect the end of turn 43, where we currently are.

I was able to reproduce our plan and give us exactly 120 hammers, but in reality, we are ahead of that total. Be weary of a mistake I may have made creating this map. I can't see one, but I can't explain the discrepancy in hammer totals either.

Maybe the chop yields were different -- we did have one chop outside of our BFC.
 

Attachments

  • Sandkasten-EndOfTurn43.CivBeyondSwordSave
    58.4 KB · Views: 105
Maybe the chop yields were different -- we did have one chop outside of our BFC.

Chop returns also depend on culture, not just distance.
 
Hmm, it looks like we don't even have a temple in our engineer city yet. This worries me a lot. Especially since it looks like we won't be able to double-whip a forge in time...

I"ll start working on a forge right away, looks like I have to stop working a rice tile in the capital since it looks like that will delay Mono which is huge. But we have what.. 6 turns to run the engineer without pollution? I dont' think we can do it.
 
Alright, after DMoc's misclick, it's going to take our city even longer to grow... too long..

I think I have a faster solution, let's chop all 3 forests near that city, and then one to the far West on the plains hill. I'm not sure anymore how many hammers you get from 3 tiles off out of culture. Was it 12 or 16? Even if it's just 12, that's 60+12 hammers with Org bonus, which means we only have to whip 1 pop to get forge.

Suggestions?

Maybe we will lose too many turns pre-chopping to make it worth while?
 
Hmm, worse comes to worse I guess we can just wait for a 2-pop whip. Our forests, are they already pre-chopped or not? This is important to know.
 
can someone post an update of the sandkasten please?

i think i can do the sim for the forge this WE (hopefully:rolleyes:)

As long as you keep solving our problems, I'll keep updating the sandkasten :)

This one is a little off. I think we have 1 less beaker into Mono and a little short on hammers into the Granary in Jahaaz than in the actual game. City 2 is spot on as far as I know.
 

Attachments

  • Sandkasten-EndOfTurn45.CivBeyondSwordSave
    61.4 KB · Views: 71
here we go:

actual turn (45):
change capital from working 2 gems to work 1 gem + another farmed rice. city 2 works farmed dye and gems. rest without changes

46:
same

47:
2 gems for capital, second city works farmed rice + farmed dye.
capital now should be size 4, switches production to worker
worker 1 prechop roaded forest
-> we now need 3 workers to make it with 2 turns of running a priest. the bad road on the rice and another lost worker turns somewhere killed our micro... ...running a priest 1 turn isnt possible anymore, 2 turns only is possible, if we have 3 workers:rolleyes:

48:
worker 1 on the foresthill (start chopping next turn)
worker 2 chop forest near river

49:
same

50:
worker 2 chop roaded forest
rest same (all forests now are down to 1 chop)
city 2 works rice, dye, gem
whip worker 3 in capital (pop1) - overflow into granary (we will do "some" whipping soon...)
mono should be in next turn

51:
capital works 2 rice, 1 gem (always focus on growth) builds granary
new worker chops roaded forest, worker 2 forest near rive, worker 1 hillforest (all go into forge)
adopt org.reli
city 2 works rice, dye, gem

52:
whip forge in city 2
city 2 works rice, gems (here we dont want to grow too fast, cause of stinky problem...)
capital works 2 rice, 1 gem, builds granary
worker 1+2 farm 2. rice for city 2
worker 3 road gems 9 from city 2

53:
city 2 switch to workboat
city 2 hire engineer, work rice (engineer in 17, priest in 16)
fishing done, sailing

54:
worker 3 start farming 2. dye for capital
worker 1 road 1. dye (on the way to 2. dye)

55:
worker 1 on 2. dye, farm
worker 2 finish road on 1. dye
capital grows to 4, workes 2. gem

56:
capital switch to settler
worker 2 road rice 8 from capital (1 turn)

57:
worker 1 finish road 8 from capital
worker 2 start mining hill 89 from capital
worker 3 road the dye
city 2 whip workboat (dont forget to reassing the engineer)

58:
sailing in research on ah or writing
capital switch to galley
city 2 switch to temple (to take the overflow)

59:
city 2 switch back to warrior
worker 3 road towards city 3 (another rice)
move both scouting warriors towards capital (they will be shipped soon and arent needed anymore on homland island

60:
capital switch 1 gem to farmed dye (growth in 1 turn)

61:
whipp galley in capital for pop2, working both rice, 1 gem
worker 3 farm rice for city 3, worker 1 road on rice 9 from capital, abort

62:
capital finishes galley, overflow into forge.
both warriors on galley, go central continent
city 2 finishes warrior, continues temple
worker 2 road on rice 9 rom capital, worker 1 on 2. gems

63:
unload both warriors on new land
worker 1 road 2. gems
worker 2 road both greenhills near capital (nothing better to do)
capital switches back to settler

64:
galley sails back
city 2 finishes temple, starts granary

65:
capital whips settler, works both gems
city 2 grows to 3, works both rice (and is stinky)
worker 1 into gally

66:
settler in galley, sailing over, unloading worker
capital puts overflow into forge and grows
city 2 hires priest
worker 3 road on dye towards city 3 on island

67:
unloading settler, galley back, worker 2 into galley

68:
capital grows to 3 (to for in 1 more turn)
we get an GE in city 2 (hopefully)
we dismiss the engineer and the priest and whip a granary in city 2 (-> we now have to whipping cities 4->2 for getting settlers out)
worker 3 road on 2. dye of city 2 (57)

from there on, in city 2, we put overflow and growing periods into units, in capital into forge untill finished, then into trireme 1

68-80 we go for extreme expansion and get 4 more settlers out (each of our 2 whipping cities 2 settlers), giving us 7 cities, catching up with the other nations



finished up to turn 68 (popping of GE... ...or GP)

im curious, if and how this can be improved...
things i put focus on:
1. avoid city 2 beeing bigger then 2 for long (city gets stinky and loses 1 food + we have to pay 1 gold more, so it only costs us)
2. get workboat out as soon as possible
3. get galley, settler, 2 warriors and 2 workers out to central continent as soon as possible
4. set up 2 whipping cities with granary and forge to keep up in expansion (we dont have to worry about growing cottages, so we dont care whipping our cities down a bit)
 
Well that's great and all, unfortunately I logged in now to do the changes, and the turn has just been set forward to #46 already. What terrible timing.
 
Well that's great and all, unfortunately I logged in now to do the changes, and the turn has just been set forward to #46 already. What terrible timing.

if we missed to play turn 45 according to the plan that wont kill us. the other turns are more important, so there we shouldnt make mistakes. if someone comes up with a better plan it would be great (or at least can test and verify my planning a bit)
 
I did a little test of the Sandaksten to coordinate it with turn 46 (this is before turn 47 is played in the actual game). I used The Mike's end of turn 45 save - but the growth of city 2 in that Sandaksten didn't match the actual game so I had to use some micromanagement (added floodplain to make the city growth match ingame) to get it done.

I signaled clarifications for me or any other turnplayer, and also differences. There isn't much, because there is actually little we can do if anything to improve Snaaty's plan. Getting all 3 forests "1-turn-chop" for chopping after Organized Religion is the most brilliant part of this, in my opinion.

As a helpful tip to future turnplayers: be sure to cancel all worker actions at the end of each turn. Also keep research at 100% or 90%.


Turn 51 - 2120 BC

Convert to Organized Religion before chopping all 3 forests, or else we lose the bonus.

Research Fishing (should be 2 turns)

Turn 56 - 1760 BC

Capital finishes a Granary, works on Settler.

In order for the worker plan to work, the fast worker who is not on the dyes must move on top of the dyes to farm, while one worker on the dyes must stop his task and leave to road the rice tile.

Turn 57 - 1720 BC

One fast worker who is not on the farmed rice has to finish the road, while the fast worker that is on the rice must move to mine. Fast workers are fun to micromanage. :crazyeye:

Do you mean road the dye that is 4,4 of the capital?

Turn 58 - 1680 BC

Sailing done - I suggest Animal Husbandry (should be about 5-6 turns) before writing as we should know the location of horses and we want to expand before building libraries.

One thing that I'm confused about - you talk about worker 1 but on turn 58-60 there is no plan for him? Worker 2 during that time is mining the hill 8,9 of the capital while worker 3 is roading the rice tile that is 4,4,7 of the capital?

*I suggest worker 1 mine the hill 8,8 of the capital.

Turn 60 - 1600 BC

The grassland hill mine 8,9 of the capital is done now.

Turn 61 - 1560 BC

City 2 actually finished the warrior this turn in my simulation, rather than on turn 62 in yours.

Turn 64 - 1440 BC

Finish Animal Husbandry, research Writing.

City 2 grows to city 3 this turn, rather than turn 65 in your plan.

-------------------

From there the sim is more dependent on what happens these previous turns than what we know now so I'll stop there.

The only thing we need to hope is that we get an engineer from the second city ... it's not a total disaster if we get a priest but it will be a letdown.
 
good job for giving it a testrun.:goodjob:

biggest assets we have in my opinion:

->we dont have to care for research cause we should be able to do some decent trades with mc
-> we dont have to care about cottage growth, so we can get "some" settlers out at a "decent" speed, giving our regrowth rate from pop2-pop4 (whip settler, regrow building something, whip settler, regrow...)
-> we have 2 cities already set up for doing this thanks to 2 rice each and the needed infra soon in place (granary + forge). happy isnt an issue, cause forge gives another +1 on gems.

biggest problems we have (again in my opinion):

->we havent scouted enough and due to the landlayout, we dont know enough civs. this can really become a problem, if the others bargain some techtrades in near future and we are left out
-> we have about 10% of missing the GI. not getting the GI wont kill us, but will surely be a heavy setback, cause we have another GP in capital comming. if we get the GP, we might consider bulbing theo and getting the apo. theo is a mighty tech enabling theocracy (5 xp with barracks) and therefore a good trading bait too.
 
If we have bad-luck and get a priest in the forge city, we can also whip a forge in capital and run an engineer there to give us a chance at getting an engineer on a second try. We could even try planning for that scenario now as a back-up.

Anyhow, I'm not so sure about DMOC's building a third worker right now. I think it's best to grow another pop and then 2-pop whip the granary? That's a lot of food we are losing out on whips here.


* Edit. Ok I just re-read the above posts so never mind. I guess you already worked it out and worker first is supposed to win out.
 
Doing a little bit of planning here. Without marble, forget about things like Parthenon, the damn thing expires and we are Philo anyway. However, this arguement is a trap, because the same is often wrongfully applied to TGL. In fact, TGL gets boosted by a lot in combo with Mids & Philo, for more than one reason. So I would not be that willing to forgo it.

Our advantages... we have two spots on our main-land that can have decent production. We also have trees aligned in the north and west. We also have 50% bonus due to early mono & forges.

Now...

Base 400 hammers needed for TAP, and 350 for TGL.

With our bonuses, that comes to 266, and 233 a piece only. Still, that may take quite some turns, but it's quite an interesting proposition.

If we can get math before chopping, every tree in range would give us 45 hammers. Just 5 forests gives in 225 hammers. So..... we have the fast workers... the best in the field.
 
I was also wondering why we shouldn't go for Great Library. And according to the Sandkasten so far, we don't have a clear plan what to do after extreme expansion. And the last tech in this plan so far is Writing anyway, meaning Aesthetics is around the corner....
 
Top Bottom