I had this happen today. There was a forest with a road in an adjacent spot. They will go for the 25 forest over the 15 forest even if it is further away. when i built my roads it picked the close forests.
[Guide] Resource Gathering (beta)
- Thread starter punctuator
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So at least one bit of good info I found:
HGO
vs
GO
H
HGO is better if it has +1 happiness.
HGO travel distance = 1 + 1 + 2 = 4
GO travel distance = 1 + 1 + ~1.41 (subject to debate) = 3.41
H
So walking away from this you could say that 1 happiness is worth more than ~.6 distance.
HGO
vs
GO
H
HGO is better if it has +1 happiness.
HGO travel distance = 1 + 1 + 2 = 4
GO travel distance = 1 + 1 + ~1.41 (subject to debate) = 3.41
H
So walking away from this you could say that 1 happiness is worth more than ~.6 distance.
punctuator
Ginger Snap
I'd wager that 1 Happiness == 1 square of distance, approximately. Here's another data point.
OH
_G
Total distance = 3.5 (counting diagonal as 1.5), total Happiness = +1
Productivity = 20
O_H
_G_
Total distance = 5, total Happiness = +2
Productivity = 19
So there I lose 1 total productivity (modifier is +30%--grumble grumble Colonial Era) when I add 1.5 squares of distance.
I have the EXACT same setup, across the river, except with different Happiness bonus potential. There I can get:
O_H
_G_
Total distance = 5, total Happiness = +3
Productivity = 21
So what does that all add up to:
+1 Happiness < 1.5 squares distance
+2 Happiness > 1.5 squares distance
Best guess, +1 Happiness == 1 square shorter travel distance
OH
_G
Total distance = 3.5 (counting diagonal as 1.5), total Happiness = +1
Productivity = 20
O_H
_G_
Total distance = 5, total Happiness = +2
Productivity = 19
So there I lose 1 total productivity (modifier is +30%--grumble grumble Colonial Era) when I add 1.5 squares of distance.
I have the EXACT same setup, across the river, except with different Happiness bonus potential. There I can get:
O_H
_G_
Total distance = 5, total Happiness = +3
Productivity = 21
So what does that all add up to:
+1 Happiness < 1.5 squares distance
+2 Happiness > 1.5 squares distance
Best guess, +1 Happiness == 1 square shorter travel distance
punctuator
Ginger Snap
Update: added "Advanced Topics" section for discussion of relative values of factors that determine citizen productivity. So far, my conclusions are:
+1 Happiness == -1 square to Work Route
+1 Happiness > +5 Resource Value
+1 Happiness == -1 square to Work Route
+1 Happiness > +5 Resource Value
Could this be taken further to tentatively state that
1 square distance > 5 resource value?
This would indicate that putting your granary adjacent to a pasture is better than an extra away from it.
Note: I didn't say house because of happiness issues.
punctuator
Ginger Snap
Yes, that seems right. So you're saying that, say:
setup 1:
_H_
PGP
PPP
PPP
ought to be better than
setup 2:
_HG
PPP
PPP
PPP
right?
Setup 1 is 40 meat, 4 distance
Setup 2 is 45 meat, 5.5 distance
That looks like Setup 1 would indeed be superior. I think I'll test it and find out.
Edit: Test (using Small Granary only) yielded the expected result. Setup 2 gave productivity of 13 with no Happiness bonus and +30% food, while Setup 1 gave productivity of 14.
Edit2: Worth noting that Setup 1 is only .5 distance worse than a 40 fruit Orchard setup like:
HG
O_
Seems like a good (though Hammer-intensive) alternative for maps with bad Orchard locations.
setup 1:
_H_
PGP
PPP
PPP
ought to be better than
setup 2:
_HG
PPP
PPP
PPP
right?
Setup 1 is 40 meat, 4 distance
Setup 2 is 45 meat, 5.5 distance
That looks like Setup 1 would indeed be superior. I think I'll test it and find out.
Edit: Test (using Small Granary only) yielded the expected result. Setup 2 gave productivity of 13 with no Happiness bonus and +30% food, while Setup 1 gave productivity of 14.
Edit2: Worth noting that Setup 1 is only .5 distance worse than a 40 fruit Orchard setup like:
HG
O_
Seems like a good (though Hammer-intensive) alternative for maps with bad Orchard locations.
Yea that is exactly what i was saying. Awesome, now we are getting somewhere! You are right that that explicit setup is hammer intensive, but you can always create something like:
_HHH_
PPGPP
PPPPP
PPPPP
or even:
_HHH_
PPGPP
PPPPP
PPPPP
PPGPP
_HHH_
And you have to keep in mind that P may be supplemented with water tiles. Yes the middle house can't get more than +2 happiness, but this is an important find regardless because typically I've been putting my granaries behind my house line.
[e]Also assuming happiness is a linear bonus you can put the 1 distance vs 1 happiness to a test very simply with this:
HGO 0 happiness
HG_O 2 happiness
I can try this later, but can't access fb atm.
punctuator
Ginger Snap
Ok, I think we've got enough principles in place to determine the top 5 productivity layouts for a single Farmer, in order:
Ok, I think we've got enough principles in place to determine the top 5 productivity layouts for a single Farmer, in order:
You are missing:
_W_
WOW
_GH
with the house adjacent to 3 happiness tiles (water being one of them).
Also your #1 shows 4 happiness tiles which I'm not sure 4 happiness increases, but you can get 3 happiness with the granary beneath the house and the total travel is shorter by 1 assuming 1.5 for diagonal.
My statement is a wash if 4 happiness exists because 1 happiness == 1 distance, but it is still superior for 3 happiness.
punctuator
Ginger Snap
Bleh yeah this is hard! lol
Confirmed earlier that +4 happiness does increase productivity
Confirmed earlier that +4 happiness does increase productivity
zbgayumn
Emperor
: The exact formula is speculated to be:
bonus resources = (2 + pop)*(1 + bonus/100)
Has anyone revisited this formula lately? I am reasonably convinced that it is accurate for the resources received in individual trickles, but it does not seem to hold up over long times.
I have been using the modified formula:
Total Income/hr = (2+pop)*(1+%bonus/100)*12 + HarvestValue*1.05
This assumes that trickles come in every 5 minutes, which was stated, but could be the weak link in the data here. Harvests are multiplied by 1.05 = 60/57, since they come every 57 minutes. I mostly use this formula for food, so that i can predict growth. Over the last several days, the formula has consistently predicted longer periods between growth than what actually occurs. For instance, I grew from 13 to 14 in approximately 15 hours, while the predicted value was 28 hours. Now, I did buy some food, but not nearly enough to explain an 87% error.
Is it the time between trickles that's throwing me off, or is there an unaccounted for factor in resource accumulation?
punctuator
Ginger Snap
Did you get any Dowry bonuses while offline, maybe? Sometimes people come and marry your citizens when you're not looking!
Edit: Also, if you're trying to predict over long periods of time, you need to take into account changing Era/Wonder/Civic bonuses.
Edit: Also, if you're trying to predict over long periods of time, you need to take into account changing Era/Wonder/Civic bonuses.
punctuator
Ginger Snap
Hmm now the problem I'm having is I don't know exactly where this goes in the ranking. I've confirmed 1 Happiness > 5 Resource Value, and I'm confident that 1 Happiness < 10 Resource Value, but how does 1.5 Happiness compare to 10 Resource Value? Need that answer to rank top Farmer layouts.
zbgayumn
Emperor
There have been very few era changes in the last couple days. I suspect that's because few people have been able to log on. Anyway, I don't think there's been a change in food bonus other than buying Great Prophets, which I try to account for by recalculating.
Dowries are an interesting possibility. Is there an event log that goes back through the whole game that I could check? I probably have the most productive farmer in my Civ, and maybe even in the world, so the odds are not bad that I've gotten dowries I didn't know about. OTOH, the fact that the most productive farmer in the world might be 34 suggests that no one in my game is really very good. They may not even realize that you need to go hunting for the best dowry value out there.
Unfortunately it does not. I have a 118 food citizen (doubled) and people come in, dowry for ~2600 food and leave. Once it popped the extra citizen for me!
punctuator
Ginger Snap
Yeah, my last game did not have a ton of active players, and it seemed to be everyone's first game. People still managed to figure out that they should come to my town to use their Dowries. I got a ton of food from them while I was online, and I can only imagine I got even more while offline.
Oh ya, the other possibility is it depends on your interior minister, maybe you got some +1 harvests and didn't realize it?
zbgayumn
Emperor
I did finally get rid of that job, so yeah, I might have picked up a few extra harvests. Even after Meritocracy we have about 15 players, so the odds would favor getting one, maybe two extra harvests.
Regarding the happiness after estatic:
It does give extra production, but apparently +1 movement distance reduces that bonus. Let me show my case:
(+1 happiness due to wonder)
1. Scientist has 3 forest and perfect diagonal setup with the well and uni. It produces 50 beakers.
2. Scientist has 3 forest and a water. It has a diagonal setup but the well is one tile further away to allow for maximal happiness. It produces 49 beakers.
Therefore, it seems as the game reaches its end and hammers become abundant, one should try to get 3 forest and a perfect diagonal setup for all houses in order to maximize the effect.
It does give extra production, but apparently +1 movement distance reduces that bonus. Let me show my case:
(+1 happiness due to wonder)
1. Scientist has 3 forest and perfect diagonal setup with the well and uni. It produces 50 beakers.
2. Scientist has 3 forest and a water. It has a diagonal setup but the well is one tile further away to allow for maximal happiness. It produces 49 beakers.
Therefore, it seems as the game reaches its end and hammers become abundant, one should try to get 3 forest and a perfect diagonal setup for all houses in order to maximize the effect.
