German multicultural society "has failed" -- Chancellor Merkel

If you don't try to claim all Americans were immigrants and stick with the usual definitions here, Germany and the US actually have a rather similar percentage of immigrant population (far lower than countries with real immigration like Canada or Switzerland).
If you're going by the usual definition, then the Vatican City wins with 100% of the population being immigrants. Number two is Andorra.

Or you could, you know, go by raw numbers as to where the immigrant population is going, instead of paying attention to the current population, where USA is #1.
 
I've been following the decline of Germany for some time and I'm glad that the truth is finally out.

It just goes to show how truly democratic Germany is - even decades of politically correct brainwashing by the liberal-left establishment has not blinded the German people to the reality they can see with their own eyes.

Recent attempts to censor the debate through pure intimidation have only made people realise the elites are out of touch.

:dubious::wow:

Now we just need Britain to reject this outrageous lie. We need capitalism and democracy, the only system in history that has proven its ability to consistently raise living standards while maintaing individual liberty and freedom. Preserving a rational, Western culture is essential for the future of the entire human race.

Might I introduce you to Mr. Allende and Mr. Pinochet?
 
Seeing that more turks are leaving Germany than are immigrating there, this whole issue is just a bogus attempt to garner the votes of the right fringe.

A look at the polls, where the conservative coalition is far behind socialdemocrats/green is the only cause for this debate.
 
So while i disagree with the conservatives in general and would favor radically different solutions (like investing dramatically more money in our schools - duh!), i cannot deny the fact, that German Turks (on average) are less educated, less law abiding and less faithful to our constitution than most other immigrants or ethnic Germans. As i said: I see this more as matter of class than one of religion or ethnicity. Unfortunatly many Germans don't share my point of view.
Being a backwards idiot who does not want to send his daughter into biology class has little to do with social class, it is precisely to do with religion (and, to lesser degree, ethnicity, as these are often intertwined). That backwards idiots end up as lower class is the result, not underlying cause. You could import bloody homeless from e.g. Scandinavia - I doubt you´d have a problem like this with them.


Moderator Action: Please avoid terms like "backward idiots" when referring to groups of people.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
Seems like every generation needs a minority to hate. This time round it's Islam. I wonder if, when Asia rises and Europe declines into inevitable irrelevance, next hated minority will be White Europeans.
 
It used to be the Jews, now it's the Muslims.
 
you're talking about israel/palestine?

while i agree that we spend way too much time with this foreign political topic, equating israel with "the jews" really isnt appropriate in any way.

also, we're actually split on the topic, the anti-nationals/anti-germans are pretty big on supporting israel in whatever it does. they're also pretty big on telling that to everyone they can get hold of.
 
This is quite obviously a political stunt, Australian style. So a despicable and worrying one. At least there should be consolation in the fact that it's about politics, and probably not about actual underlying xenophobia in the German government.
 
Edit: Europe as a whole might create problems in the future, people are gaining a sense of entitlement. Look at the uproar about French President Nicholas Zarcosky increasing the retirement age.

And following up on what metatron mentioned in answer to this, you might want to have a look at this paper:
social security and the age of retirement

It uses statistics from the USA (and is about the arguments over social security there) but the reasoning applies to Europe or any other place. The usual excuse presented to cut benefits, that life expectancy is rising and therefore the system will be short of money to pay longer-living retirees, is a lie. It's not that simple, as a longer live expectancy also means that on average people have a longer working life (all those who'd die young) paying into social security, and the rise in live expectancy is also influenced even by reduction in infant/young people mortality even before they would start working.

In France in particular it's obvious that the government's arguments are lies. And the french workers don't just swallow lies from their politicians when they're trying to screw them. Good for the french, would that all europeans were like that.
 
Cultural orthodoxy is dangerous. Let's not swing it around too carelessly.
Removing all social constraints from individuals is also dangerous. A compromise needs to be agreed upon, but I don't think the best compromise can be found in the current multicultural ideas.

Amadeus has a point: If she is merely demanding that they obey the laws and the constitution of the country, it's an entirely reasonable demand, an expected one.

Of course, there's a political reason that she'd making that public statement: she's implying that they are not respecting the laws and constitution of Germany.
I won't pretend to know whether or not she has good motives for that. I do know that they've had Turks for many years there and it's strange that they're just "discovering" this when they're dealing with an economic crisis...
Could also be that it has been too unpolitically correct to even dear to criticize the standing immigration policies.

Not that I know too much of how the vast majority of Germans of Turkish decent behaves. The two I've met have been very well integrated/assimilated. Meaning they think like Germans. They drink, have sex and act like normal young people do. Still hung up on that "not eating pig" idea, but nobody is perfect.

The children of all these people go to the same school. Their grandchildren won't even speak the language of their grandparents home country.
So it's not that you like living in a multicultural society - you like to live in a society where your culture dominates and supplants other cultures.

Multiculturalism is a policy which follows and recognises reality on the ground (insisting merely on obedience to the law) instead of trying to socially engineer a monoculture by demanding people, like, stop eating foreign food and having weird customs or whatever.
I don't think anyone is arguing that immigrants should stop eating certain foods that they like. But to demand that customs hostile to the host country's culture are dealt with is not unreasonable.

What ever gave you that idea?
If nothing else: Norwegian politicians.
 
So it's not that you like living in a multicultural society - you like to live in a society where your culture dominates and supplants other cultures.

That's not actually true. The common metaphor is 'melting pot'. But a better one would be 'stew pot'. All of these people haven't melted into the main culture and been untraceably absorbed. They have, instead, all subtly changed the flavor of the whole.
 
You're asking me to judge based on appearance and not actions or beliefs.
I picked examples in which belief and resultant actions, non-adhering to the established German monoculture in both cases, are quite easily inferred from appearance. Don't be obtuse.

For the left it's the jews, for the right it's the muslims.
Yes, because everyone on the left is just foaming at the mouth with hatred for Noam Chomsky. :rolleyes:

Removing all social constraints from individuals is also dangerous. A compromise needs to be agreed upon, but I don't think the best compromise can be found in the current multicultural ideas.
But what "social constraints" are you talking about? The mere application of the law, or obliged adherence to a monoculture? There is, I fancy, a not insignificant distinction between the two.
 
Spoiler :
In one hundred years (1872–1972) at least 5,350,889 immigrants came to Brazil, of whom 31.06% were Portuguese, 30.32% Italians, 13.38% Spaniards, 4.63% Japanese, 4.18% Germans and 16.42% of other unspecified nationalities.[6]
In 1897, São Paulo had twice as many Italians as Brazilians in the city. According to the 1920 census, 35% of São Paulo city's inhabitants were foreign born, compared to 36% in New York City. São Paulo's multicultural population could be compared to any major American city. About 75% of the immigrants were Latin Europeans, particularly from three major sources: Italy, Portugal and Spain. The rest came from different parts of Europe, the Middle East and Japan.[31] Some areas of the city remained almost exclusively settled by Italians until the arrival of waves of migrants from other parts of Brazil, particularly from the Northeast, starting in the late 1920s...In 1929, as many as 272,338 Portuguese immigrants were recorded in the Federal District of Brazil (nowadays the city of Rio de Janeiro), more Portuguese born people than any other city in the world, except for Lisbon (which had 591,939 inhabitants in 1930).

You Americans think ya'll tolerable, now? :p
 
Well, we haven't Manifest Destiny'd on Brazil yet, so yeah, we're pretty tolerant of them :)
 
[...]
 
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Immigrant-cluster??? When did Rosengård go from being a ghetto to being an immigrant-cluster?

But most other states AREN'T multicultural! Germany, Spain, Egypt, Japan, Russia, China and most other "old world" countries have their own distinct culture.

What is the reason we need to turn every society in the world into a consumeristic, multicultural society that will not be any different from the culture of New York?

:lol: Well, with the possible exception of Rosengård, I prefer "immigrant cluster" since it is more relevant to the point I try to make ;) Which is that a concentration of immigrants (ie immigrant cluster) is what messes things up.

By spreading them out you ensure that they feel part of the Swedish society and not part of some immigrant culture.

like this?


Yeah.


In the big cities we do. And there are issues. The right is right about that. But their claim that these problems stem from the immigrants identity is mostly bogus.
In the big cities immigrants (Turks for the most part) have taken oven the former quarters of the lower class. They are the lower class. And they do typical lower class things (fights, married people killing each other for jeaulousy, people raising their kids ina bad authoritorian way or beating them).
This is very much about classism. There has been a hype in media and politics about the ethnic German part of the lower class for the entire last decade as well - with the rights insulting in all kinds of ways. Though that rarely gets reported abroad.

Indeed, it has a lot do to with class, but with the added ingredient of segregation.

If you concentrate a lot of low-class people who share one thing in common: their immigrant ancestry, it's a no brainer that they'll get a "Us" vs "Them", which is a failure of the multicultural society.

In smaller cities and rural areas there are usually fewer immigrants and they blend in rather well and are accepted by an overwhelming majority of Germans as well.

Yeah, there's not as big of a concentration (if any).


BTW, I couldnt read your map for some reason. It came out as unreadable.
 
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