C2C - Religions discussions and ideas

Hydromancerx said:
@BlueGenie

I think Pantheonism and Polytheism are the same thing. For instance the Aztec/Mayan rlegion "Naghualism" had many gods which would make it polytheist but also a Pantheon of gods much like the Greek or Norse gods with a Mother and Father deities as well as a god for just about any factor in life. Gods for life, gods for death, gods for animals, gods for weather, etc.



If I recall DH had a problem with a tech for each religion last time I brought it up.

EDIT: Here is what I brought up nearly a year ago (Jan 7th 2011)
Click to expand...


I see a major problem. Islam should require Christianity. The Koran speaks of both Jews and Christians forgetting God and thus "god" gave Muhammad a new revelation. I personally do believe God did such a thing, but that is why the Koran says Muhammad founded Islam.

Also, Voodoo comes from Africa. It had nothing to do with Christianity.
 
puttincomputers said:
wrong. Judaism never had God with a wife.
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Then it must have been a translation/transcription error in the source we were using because I remember the stir it caused if not the source(s). I am fairly sure it is mentioned somewhere in the King James version of the Old Testament and I think we went back through some of the sources for that. As I said it was a long time ago and I went on to specialise in mathematics.
 
puttincomputers said:
Also, Voodoo comes from Africa. It had nothing to do with Christianity.
Click to expand...

Haitian Vodou - It is based upon a merging of the beliefs and practices of West African peoples, with Arawakian religious beliefs, and Roman Catholic Christianity.
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Louisiana Voodoo - They became syncretized with the Catholicism and Francophone culture of south Louisiana as a result of the slave trade. Louisiana Voodoo is often confused with—but is not completely separable from—Haitian Vodou and southern Hoodoo.
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West African Vodun = It is distinct from the various traditional animistic religions in the interiors of these same countries and is the main origin for religions of similar name found among the African Diaspora in the New World such as Haitian Vodou, the Vudu of Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic, Candomblé Jejé in Brazil (which uses the term Vodum), Louisiana Voodoo and Santería in Cuba. All these are syncretized with Christianity and the traditional religions of the Kongo people of Congo and Angola.
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Seems to me that "Voodoo" in its various forms have been mixed with Catholicism much like how Catholicism was mixed with many Latin American religions when the Spanish and/or Portuguese took them over.
 
How about Santeria?

Santería, also known as Regla de Ocha, La Regla Lucumi or Lukumi,[1][2] is a syncretic religion of West African and Caribbean origin influenced by Roman Catholic Christianity. Its liturgical language, a dialect of Yoruba, is also known as Lucumi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santería
 
Rasma said:
I am in 376 ad 1340 turns
And I have 25890 gold +126 a turn 167 sci a turn at 90%, with the last ten percent going into esp, with six cities, my confusion wonder that gives +1 gold per a city with state religion is spitting out 20 gold alone
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So you are playing on Eternity or Snail game speed? Also what Level?

Because the only way I know of to be @376AD and still be in the Classical Era is those slower speeds. Which in turn changes the mechanics of gold accrual. As does have a low difficulty level versus a high one.

On Marathon or Epic to have 25K in Gold in your reserve you would have to have had some special resources and more than 1 or 2 around your starting point.

And making 126 gold/turn @ 90% research is Not a lot of Gold either.

In my current game, Epic speed, it is the late 1800's AD. I make 500+ gold per turn but only have a 1200+ Gold reserve. I have 2 Neighbors who have DOWed me (was 4 but got 2 to back off with tech gifts). My research is at 60% (it had fallen to 40% at one point for need of funds to do massive unit upgrades to keep abreast of my Invaders). I'm still a few techs behind. But Only by having the 500+ gold per turn have I been able to field an effective defensive army.

From my perspective there is Not too much Gold in the Mod. And this has been discussed/debated/fought over and over thru the last 10 versions.

JosEPh :)
 
JosEPh_II said:
So you are playing on Eternity or Snail game speed? Also what Level?

Because the only way I know of to be @376AD and still be in the Classical Era is those slower speeds. Which in turn changes the mechanics of gold accrual. As does have a low difficulty level versus a high one.
Click to expand...

Eternity or snail which ever is slower (I can't remmember off the top of my head)
And I play noble because I prefer to not have an advantage/disadvantage gameplay wise
Though after looking through my neighbors with my esp, I noticed that my closest neighbor has around 19k.
But I still see the +1 gold per a city with religion X being buildable in multiple towns as a big issue, I mean I have confusionism in 21% of the world according to the religion chart and make 20 gold a turn from it, I can't imagine what would happen if it expanded more, like to every city in the world, since it seems that it is based off of total cities with the religion not your cities with the religion, unless something is changed in the effect for these buildings, I haven't actually tried to do this yet, but I think my next game I will try to found all three of the religions that have cathedrals that spawn gold per city and see what happens. Or perhaps have the gold income based off having it as your state religion, so you can't have all three and spread them all over the world for massive gains.
 
Since I've put out my culture proposals, I figure I might as well re-air my religion proposals again, especially with the potential "genericization" of civs and updating of the culture system;

Spoiler :
Praetyre said:
Might I suggest a synthesis of my own and Hydromancerx's religion-suggestions to solve the issue of Jerusalem Syndrome (other than Limited Religions, because that's just boring)?

In effect, each religion will be a World Wonder with one technological requirement (the same as the religion it founds) and will also require the Culture in which it was historically founded, allowing the possibility for most civs to grab religions from their own region but not for, say, Aztecs to grab Taoism without going through the effort to conquer an Asian nation (or for a historical example, the Romans with Israel). Some projects will also require other religions present in the city (only in the normal sense, one can found them without a single shrine as long as the religion is there), which are detailed below.

The project makes the city in which it is built it's Holy City. The projects will provide no other benefits than those inherently conferred in Holy City status, and would be as follows:

Andeanism: Requires Polytheism, Astronomy and Culture (Incan)
Asatru: Require Polytheism, Ship Building and Culture (Viking)
Baha'i: Requires Judaism/Christianity and Islam and Buddhism and Steam Power and Great Prophet
Buddhism: Requires Philosophy, Meditation and Culture (Indian) and Great Prophet
Christianity: Requires Judaism, Theology and Culture (Israeli) and Great Prophet
Confucianism: Requires Philosophy, Code of Laws and Culture (Chinese) and Great Prophet
Druidism: Requires Naturopathy and Culture (Celtic)
Hellenism: Requires Athletics and Culture (Greek)
Hinduism: Requires Polytheism and Culture (Indian)
Islam: Requires Judaism and Christianity, Education and Culture (Arabian) and Great Prophet
Judaism: N/A (due to having Monotheism as it's requirement, should be founded by first to build Culture (Israeli), which should also be able to be constructed by Great Prophet with the usual requirements met.
Kemetism: Requires Polytheism and StarGazing and Culture (Egyptian)
Mormonism: Requires Liberalism and Christianity and Culture (American) and Great Prophet
Naghualism: Requires Polytheism and Sacrifice Cult and Culture (Aztec)/Culture (Mayan)
Ngaiism: Requires Monotheism and Livestock Domestication and Culture (Ethiopian)
Shinto: Requires Polytheism and Paper and Culture (Japanese)
Taoism: Requires City Planning and Philosophy and Culture (Chinese) and Great Prophet
Tengriism: Requires Monotheism and Horseback Riding and Culture (Mongolian)
Voodoo: Requires Christianity and Polytheism and Fundamentalism and Culture (Zulu)
Yoruba: Requires Christianity and Music and Culture (Malinese)
Zoroastrianism: Requires Monotheism and Dualism and Culture (Persian)
Click to expand...
 
@Hydro Here is my first attempt to get the religion-tech tree buttons looking right. Can you convert it into a button. If everything works I will do all the others.
 
I think there are too many religions in the game which make no sense.
Do we really need Andeism, Bah, Jainism, Mormon, Ngaism, Scientology, Sikhism, Voodoo, Yoruba?!
These religions don't even have civilization behind them. I mean none of these religions is favourite religion of any existing civilization, so why should we keep them in game at all?!
I also observed that Shaka has no favourite religion, maybe we could give him Ngaism or Yoruba?
 
tebriz said:
I think there are too many religions in the game which make no sense.
Do we really need Andeism, Bah, Jainism, Mormon, Ngaism, Scientology, Sikhism, Voodoo, Yoruba?!
These religions don't even have civilization behind them. I mean none of these religions is favourite religion of any existing civilization, so why should we keep them in game at all?!
I also observed that Shaka has no favourite religion, maybe we could give him Ngaism or Yoruba?
Click to expand...

If its not already Andeanism should be the favorite of the Inca.
 
tebriz said:
I think there are too many religions in the game which make no sense.
Do we really need Andeism, Bah, Jainism, Mormon, Ngaism, Scientology, Sikhism, Voodoo, Yoruba?!
These religions don't even have civilization behind them. I mean none of these religions is favourite religion of any existing civilization, so why should we keep them in game at all?!
I also observed that Shaka has no favourite religion, maybe we could give him Ngaism or Yoruba?
Click to expand...

This is why many of them are modular. If you don't want to play with a particular religion then delete its folder from Modules/DancingHoskuld/Custom_Religions. If it does not have a folder there then you are stuck with it as it is not one of the modular ones.
 
Is there ANYWAY, you can devise a system that ONLY "one" Holy City" PER city can be implemented, makes more sense that way, if you look at the attached, the city below the red arrows is file, only ONE Holy City but aloooot religions.
 
Hydromancerx said:
If its not already Andeanism should be the favorite of the Inca.
Click to expand...

Andeanism is founded by Astronomy, it is late religion. So I see no reason to keep it in game, by that time Inca's would adopt other religion. Maybe their favourite Nagulism, and it is cool, no need for Andeanism
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
This is why many of them are modular. If you don't want to play with a particular religion then delete its folder from Modules/DancingHoskuld/Custom_Religions. If it does not have a folder there then you are stuck with it as it is not one of the modular ones.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your advice, so I enter in that folder and just delete folders - Andean, Bahai, Jainism etc.?
And how can I make Ngaism favourite religion for Shaka?
 
I don't have a 50th of the talent it would take to craft a mod of this calibre, but what exactly is inaccurate about Andean Inca? Also, Shaka Zulu was a, well, Zulu; Ngaiism is the religion of the Kamba, Kikuyu and Maasai people, who are Bantu, like the Zulus, but certainly quite distinct.
 
Praetyre said:
I don't have a 50th of the talent it would take to craft a mod of this calibre, but what exactly is inaccurate about Andean Inca? Also, Shaka Zulu was a, well, Zulu; Ngaiism is the religion of the Kamba, Kikuyu and Maasai people, who are Bantu, like the Zulus, but certainly quite distinct.
Click to expand...

I think Andeanism is kinda artificial, extra religion, if we include it, we should include many other small religions. There are too many religions in the game already, more than we need I think. It is also a late religion, I think it is much more ok to leave Inca with Naghulism.
Now about Ngaiism - we do not have Kamba, Kikuyu or Maasai in game. We have Zulu with no favourite religion, and Ngaiism with no civilization. So why not to couple them? :)
 
tebriz said:
I think Andeanism is kinda artificial, extra religion, if we include it, we should include many other small religions. There are too many religions in the game already, more than we need I think. It is also a late religion, I think it is much more ok to leave Inca with Naghulism.
Now about Ngaiism - we do not have Kamba, Kikuyu or Maasai in game. We have Zulu with no favourite religion, and Ngaiism with no civilization. So why not to couple them? :)
Click to expand...

From a gameplay perspective I would want to see Andaenism stay, as it's kinda unique in its bonuses (to science). Also, I have issues with the arguemnt that seems to have at least been implied that:

1) Religions that are not favorites of some civ should not be present; and
2) Religions that only appear later in the game cannot be civ favorites because said civ would already have chosen an earlier one

Combining these two means there should be no later game religions. This is (a) historically innaccuarte (e.g. - Mormonism); and (b) removes some key gameplay factors (tech race to religions that occur at widely distributed parts of the tech tree). I personally don't much care about (a), but I very much do about (b). Other people will have the opposite preference I know, but either way I don't buy the logic.
 
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