SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

Gandhi war plan this turn

So I drafted 2 infantry and put them and a musket on the galleon on Gandhi west coast to take out Bangalore (next turn amphibiously)

I want to hit Gandi's Eastern city amphibiously as well (assuming the city revolt works ~98% odds)

Not sure what the best way to use the units would be if I do this
CI musket has a ~30 chance of winning vs. CGII longbow that has been reduced to 4.8 strength by the airships
CI CRIII macemen has a ~70 chance of winning vs. the same

Do I wound the longbow with the musket and then attack with the macemen or do I just go for the best odds?

The CI CRIII macemen upgraded to infantry is as good as a CI marine vs riflemen on amphibious attacks so it would be useful vs. Roosy if we upgraded it. So I'm thinking wound the LB first with the CI muskets that are more expendable.

I'll land units next to his Southern most city this turn, then revolt him next turn and (hit him with an airship for good measure) and crush him with cannons and other units including the knights if necessary which will move down from the north.

I'm thinking the ironclad goes with the units that lands units in the south even though I don't see and boats in the area. Backup if that city revolt fails I guess. Other option just move it north already.

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If I wait 1 turn for Gandhi war, I could upgrade macemen or muskets to infantry and basically guarantee success vs. Gandhi Western city. But even if we lose a few muskets it isn't the end of the world (I assume). We want peace with Gandhi in 2 turns so how many battle losses can we afford?

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Oil hook up this turn??

So I doubt the oil hook would negatively affect us much (I can switch a specialist to ocean tile most likely)
I probably won't take full advantage of it this turn though.

Well I'll have some gold to play with with 0% slider and (assuming 30% cultural slider) so maybe I can start a few Modern Armor.
 
If we do end up tying for victory date, plastics ducks would win with a score tie break. I'm thinking we might want to build a few more sushi executives to boost our population and final score.

Also might want to build a few wonders in the last 10 turns.

Conceivably take out more Gandhi cities too... hmm maybe i can take Madras too with units that don't amphibiously attack his Eastern city. (need a city garrison in this case too)
 
You're landing that Marine on the Siberia-E island to protect our workers? What the hell is Gandhi doing over there anyway? :lol:

Why do we even need Bangalore? Just for kicks?

You could alternatively upgrade 3-4 galleys to galleons right now, declare next turn instead, and land 12 units 1S of Varanasi for better attack odds. Frigate, ironclad and galleons could block reinforcements from Madras in that case. Just an option...

I'd reduce the science slider to 0% now, and up the culture slider to 30% before you DOW. Otherwise, you'll have to re-assign all the :mad: citizens, which is majorly annoying.

Edit: also, careful with that Gandhi mace W of Calcutta.
 
Why do we even need Bangalore? Just for kicks?

If culture in Bangalore expands I think it would cover fallout tiles. Maybe I'm wrong. Oh well, just for kicks then.

at least 2 cannons will be left behind in Calcutta for protection against the macemen. workers will hide.
 
You're landing that Marine on the Siberia-E island to protect our workers? What the hell is Gandhi doing over there anyway?
Yeah that was a tough call. The marine was the only thing I had to protect the workers. I considered just pulling the workers out and sending the Marine to Stalin, but I decided to save the workers.

I assume those units were on that galleon that caused you so many problems, perhaps there was a settler too that he didn't land for some reason?
 
Might we want to save the population in the Indian cities to whip marines for America's outlying cities instead of drafting infantry for the Gandhi war? We don't need to take Bangalore, and without Sid's these cities will not regrow quickly.


If we are upgrading galleys I think it would be better to wait until we can upgrade them to the faster transports, rather than galleons.
 
didn't get the automatic output from posting but here is the autolog.

Spoiler :
Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 242 (1660 AD) [11-Jan-2011 17:53:00]
Tech traded to Roosevelt (America): Fission
Guangzhou begins: Settler (1 turns)
A Camp was built near Calcutta
Calcutta begins: Spy (2 turns)
Calcutta begins: Worker (2 turns)
A Workshop was built near Mitchum's Oasis
A Workshop was built near Hastings
A Workshop was built near Siberia
A Workshop was built near Shanghai
Fish begins: Drydock (2 turns)
Moscow begins: Marine (1 turns)
Bermuda begins: Marine (2 turns)
Paris begins: Marine (2 turns)
London begins: Marine (2 turns)
Agra begins: Spy (2 turns)
Bananas begins: Worker (1 turns)
A Workshop was built near Paris
A Workshop was built near Oxford
100% Research: 8278 per turn
0% Culture: 6424 per turn
0% Espionage: 283 per turn
0% Gold: -214 per turn, 246 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Satellites
Moscow finishes: Marine
Fish finishes: Drydock
Cuba grows to size 19
Bahamas grows to size 23
Bermuda finishes: Marine
Bananas finishes: Worker
Bcool Island grows to size 21
Guangzhou finishes: Settler
Tours grows to size 19
Nottingham grows to size 14
York grows to size 17
Oxford grows to size 20
Newcastle finishes: Worker
London finishes: Marine
Warwick grows to size 9
Rostov grows to size 13
Yaroslavl' finishes: Theatre
Agra finishes: Spy
Delhi finishes: Worker
Yakutsk finishes: Worker

Other Player Actions:
State Religion Change: Catherine (Russia) from 'Confucianism' to 'no State Religion'
Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Catherine (Russia), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Stalin the Despicable (Old Russia) towards Catherine (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Civics Change: Catherine(Russia) from 'Pacifism' to 'Free Religion'

Turn 243 (1665 AD) [11-Jan-2011 18:50:27]
Research begun: Fiber Optics (1 Turns)
Tech traded to Roosevelt (America): Ecology
A Workshop was built near Bcool Island
Bcool Island begins: Marine (2 turns)
Smolensk founded
A Mine was built near Hangzhou
Moscow begins: Marine (1 turns)
Fish begins: Galleon (1 turns)
Bananas begins: Marine (2 turns)
Newcastle begins: Worker (1 turns)
London begins: Marine (1 turns)
Warwick begins: Worker (2 turns)
Agra begins: Worker (2 turns)
Delhi begins: Worker (2 turns)
Yakutsk begins: Worker (2 turns)
A Workshop was built near Paris
Beijing begins: Marine (2 turns)
A Workshop was built near Oxford
Bermuda begins: Marine (2 turns)
Bahamas begins: Galleon (1 turns)
Nanjing begins: Spy (1 turns)
100% Research: 8269 per turn
0% Culture: 6437 per turn
0% Espionage: 283 per turn
0% Gold: -88 per turn, 108 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Fiber Optics
Moscow finishes: Marine
Fish finishes: Galleon
Siberia finishes: Apollo Program
Miguel de Cervantes (Great Artist) born in GP Farm
Bahamas finishes: Galleon
Bermuda finishes: Marine
Bananas finishes: Marine
Paris finishes: Marine
Bcool Island finishes: Marine
Nanjing finishes: Spy
Newcastle finishes: Worker
Warwick grows to size 10
Yekaterinburg grows to size 11
Jamaica grows to size 14
Vijayanagara finishes: Worker
A Village was built near Delhi
Pataliputra finishes: Worker
Bombay finishes: Worker
Calcutta finishes: Worker
Yakutsk grows to size 8

Turn 244 (1670 AD) [11-Jan-2011 19:38:00]
Research begun: Fusion (1 Turns)
A Workshop was built near Siberia
A Workshop was built near Bermuda
Siberia begins: Aqueduct (1 turns)
Moscow begins: Marine (1 turns)
Fish begins: Galleon (1 turns)
A Watermill was built near Moscow
Galleon 7 (Fish) promoted: Flanking I
Galleon 7 (Fish) promoted: Navigation I
Airship 1 (Moscow) promoted: Combat I
Airship 1 (Moscow) promoted: Combat II
While attacking in American territory near Washington, Frigate 2 (Bananas) (1.20/8) defeats Barbarian Privateer (Prob Victory: 90.4%)
Nanjing begins: Frigate (2 turns)
Shanghai begins: Frigate (2 turns)
Bcool Island begins: Marine (1 turns)
Bermuda begins: Marine (1 turns)
Pigs begins: Worker (1 turns)
Orenburg founded
Krasnoyarsk founded
Fish begins: Frigate (1 turns)
Haiti begins: Marine (2 turns)
Iron Spice begins: Galleon (2 turns)
Tech traded to Roosevelt (America): Communism
A Workshop was built near Marseilles
Newcastle begins: Airship (2 turns)
Warwick begins: Airship (2 turns)
Oxford begins: Airship (1 turns)
Jamaica begins: Frigate (3 turns)
Yakutsk begins: Worker (2 turns)
Guangzhou begins: Marine (2 turns)
Guangzhou begins: The Pentagon (10 turns)
Newcastle begins: Airship (2 turns)
Hammer City begins: Marine (1 turns)
Orleans begins: Airship (1 turns)
100% Research: 8106 per turn
0% Culture: 6509 per turn
0% Espionage: 283 per turn
0% Gold: -81 per turn, 110 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Paris
Tech research finished: Fusion
Bi Sheng (Great Engineer) born in Canterbury
Moscow finishes: Marine
Fish finishes: Frigate
Siberia finishes: Aqueduct
Pigs finishes: Worker
Bermuda finishes: Marine
Orleans finishes: Airship
Chengdu's borders expand
Bcool Island finishes: Marine
Shanghai finishes: Frigate
Beijing finishes: Marine
Nanjing finishes: Frigate
Hammer City's borders expand
Oxford finishes: Airship
Iron Spice grows to size 16
Iron Spice finishes: Galleon
Warwick grows to size 11
Rostov grows to size 14
Vijayanagara's borders expand
Agra's borders expand
Agra finishes: Worker
Delhi's borders expand
Delhi finishes: Worker
Yakutsk finishes: Worker
Smolensk's borders expand
Golden Age ends

Turn 245 (1675 AD) [11-Jan-2011 21:02:50]
Chengdu begins: Marine (2 turns)
Chengdu begins: Spy (1 turns)
Frigate 2 (Bananas) promoted: Combat I
Research begun: Composites (1 Turns)
Golden Age begins
Fish begins: Galleon (1 turns)
Pigs begins: Worker (1 turns)
Bermuda begins: Marine (1 turns)
Rheims begins: Marine (1 turns)
Bananas begins: Worker (1 turns)
Paris begins: Airship (1 turns)
Paris begins: Marine (2 turns)
Kamchatka begins: Galleon (1 turns)
Orleans begins: Marine (1 turns)
Chengdu begins: Airship (1 turns)
Chengdu begins: Guided Missile (1 turns)
Chengdu begins: Spy (1 turns)
Bcool Island begins: Marine (1 turns)
Shanghai begins: Galleon (1 turns)
Beijing begins: Marine (2 turns)
Nanjing begins: Airship (1 turns)
Tours begins: Airship (1 turns)
Haiti begins: Airship (1 turns)
Hastings begins: Marine (1 turns)
Iron Spice begins: Galleon (2 turns)
London begins: Ironclad (1 turns)
London begins: Marine (2 turns)
Canterbury begins: Marine (1 turns)
Rostov begins: Work Boat (1 turns)
Yaroslavl' begins: Work Boat (2 turns)
Agra begins: Theatre (1 turns)
Agra begins: Worker (2 turns)
Agra begins: Spy (2 turns)
Delhi begins: Worker (2 turns)
Yakutsk begins: Worker (2 turns)
Newcastle begins: Worker (2 turns)
Vijayanagara begins: Galleon (3 turns)
A Windmill was built near Bombay
A Farm was built near Delhi
Frigate 4 (Fish) promoted: Flanking I
Frigate 4 (Fish) promoted: Navigation I
Bananas begins: Marine (2 turns)
Bananas begins: Frigate (1 turns)
Fish begins: Marine (2 turns)
Bananas begins: Galleon (1 turns)
A Workshop was built near Fish
Frigate 6 (Nanjing) promoted: Combat I
A Watermill was built near Delhi
A Workshop was built near Bcool Island
A Windmill was built near Warwick
30% Research: 5446 per turn
0% Culture: 6763 per turn
0% Espionage: 285 per turn
70% Gold: 357 per turn, 142 in the bank

After End Turn:
Draft anger has decreased in GP Farm
A Infantry was drafted in Chengdu
Tech research finished: Composites
Fish finishes: Marine
Bermuda finishes: Marine
Rheims's borders expand
Bananas finishes: Galleon
Paris finishes: Marine
Kamchatka finishes: Galleon
Orleans finishes: Marine
Chengdu grows to size 13
Chengdu finishes: Spy
Bcool Island finishes: Marine
Shanghai finishes: Galleon
Beijing finishes: Marine
Nanjing finishes: Airship
Tours finishes: Airship
Haiti finishes: Airship
Hastings finishes: Marine
Newcastle finishes: Worker
London finishes: Marine
Canterbury finishes: Marine
Warwick grows to size 12
Rostov finishes: Work Boat
Yaroslavl' finishes: Work Boat
Buddhism has spread: Yaroslavl'
Jamaica finishes: Frigate
Agra finishes: Spy
Delhi finishes: Worker
Yakutsk finishes: Worker

Turn 246 (1680 AD) [11-Jan-2011 22:18:35]
Research begun: Genetics (2 Turns)
Kamchatka begins: Harbor (1 turns)
Chengdu begins: Marine (2 turns)
Shanghai begins: Marine (2 turns)
Beijing begins: Marine (2 turns)
Nanjing begins: Airship (1 turns)
Tours begins: Airship (1 turns)
Haiti begins: Airship (1 turns)
Newcastle begins: Worker (2 turns)
Agra begins: Spy (2 turns)
Delhi begins: Worker (2 turns)
Delhi begins: Frigate (3 turns)
Yakutsk begins: Worker (2 turns)
 
If culture in Bangalore expands I think it would cover fallout tiles. Maybe I'm wrong. Oh well, just for kicks then.
Good point... I guess we can't really get to that tile with a bunch of workers to scrub during the 2t war.

I assume those units where on that galleon that caused you so many problems, perhaps there was a settler too that he didn't land for some reason?
That's what I was thinking, too. :D Maybe the war screwed his faraway settling plans for some reason.
 
I didn't realize that were were continuing the game already. I think we should pause now until we have a solid plan for how to clean up the rest of the fallout and eliminate Stalin in 12 turns.
 
Sorry for playing without pausing for the green light. I wanted to play when I could since the time crunch.

I didn't end the turn, but the fallout plan is looking good (although if someone can double check that situation I would appreciate it)

I have I believe 14-15 marines that can hit Stalin in 2 turns. 6-7 for capital, 4 each for the southern most cities where I believe his tactical nukes are.

I can hit one of the southern most cities with 3+ airships so 4 marines should be able to take that city.
The capital has a spy so a city revolt and 6-7 marines should be able to take the capital
The other southern city only has 20% culture I believe so it should fall to 4 marines as well.

The military plan for Roosy needs to be developed. But I think I have ~6 marines on the way and a Modern Armor being built nearby. And I think 3 spies. One to take out his uranium so he doesn't upgrade his navy when he finishes combustion. I don't think he has access to oil.
 
At work now, can't look at the save.

TBH, the game really looks like a foregone conclusion after yesterday's set. All fallout outside of Gandhi, Stalin and Roos is taken care of already and we have 75 workers total for less than that in fallout tiles. Since the last 14t will easily take 10 hrs and we're strapped for turnplayer time, I'm ok with bcool continuing on whatever schedule is convenient for him.

Let's try to feed him something resembling a comprehensive plan by tonight or tmr morning, though.
 
Re: Gandhi war

I think we should just take Lahore next turn and end the war. There is one fallout tile on Gandhi's mainland that will fall under the control of Bangalore. We should get 5? workers to that tile and scrub it next turn. Then we can end the war, leaving Gandhi with 3 cities and no fallout. Doing the minimum warring with Gandhi let's us direct the entire Indian army/navy toward Roosevelt as soon as possible.

Re: Stalin war

We need to be sure to take out the cities that contain the nukes on the first turn of our war. All nukes happen to be in his southern cities, not Stalingrad. Any units that are slated for Stalingrad should also be within reach of one of the southern cities. We should attack the southern cities first. If the RNG is bad to us, we can still wipe out all of the nukes on the first turn of the war and then take Stalingrad on the next turn. If the RNG is "fair", it should be a one turn war with the troops that bcool has amassed.

I counted 5 units in Stallingrad and 3 units in the other two cities with a few units wandering around. I see 13 marines on boats headed toward Old Russia. We'll have positive odds in all battles. I don't see this war being an issue at all and can start as early as T+2. Good job getting this all set up, bcool. :goodjob:

Re: American War

I think we should think about starting this in 4 turns. That should give us plenty of time to get our Indian army into position, our Russian army close and a crap load of transports and modern armor on his eastern border. As we take cities, our army of workers follows and cleans up the mess as we go. Once we've taken care of his SOD in New York, it should be all over.

I agree with bbp that things are well under controlm but we still need to plan all of the logistics well. One fallout tile not cleaned could delay our victory by a turn...
 
Re: Gandhi war

I think we should just take Lahore next turn and end the war. There is one fallout tile on Gandhi's mainland that will fall under the control of Bangalore. We should get 5? workers to that tile and scrub it next turn. Then we can end the war, leaving Gandhi with 3 cities and no fallout. Doing the minimum warring with Gandhi let's us direct the entire Indian army/navy toward Roosevelt as soon as possible.

I have a boat next to Bangalore with 2 infantry and a musket. I have airships to wound the musket and possibly the knight. The odds of successful amphibious capture of Bangalore next turn is >95%. I'm not certain I can get workers to the fallout of what I remember is 2 tiles that are in Banglore's culture. (I might be wrong about this).

Re: Stalin war

We need to be sure to take out the cities that contain the nukes on the first turn of our war. All nukes happen to be in his southern cities, not Stalingrad. Any units that are slated for Stalingrad should also be within reach of one of the southern cities. We should attack the southern cities first. If the RNG is bad to us, we can still wipe out all of the nukes on the first turn of the war and then take Stalingrad on the next turn. If the RNG is "fair", it should be a one turn war with the troops that bcool has amassed.

I counted 5 units in Stallingrad and 3 units in the other two cities with a few units wandering around. I see 13 marines on boats headed toward Old Russia. We'll have positive odds in all battles. I don't see this war being an issue at all and can start as early as T+2. Good job getting this all set up, bcool.

I think there is a galley under the transport near Haiti? that can pick up the marine being built there and put him in the transport before it moves next turn. So I have 4+4+6 marines I think hitting Stalin in 2 turns.

In principle I agree about the tactical nukes. I'll have to take a look at the situation and see if I can position the transport/galleon fleet coming from Moscow area in a place where it can either go for the western Southern city or the capital. And then place the other two transports from Jamaica area and Haiti area where they could hit either southern city. Can anyone get a screenshot to see if this is possible? (in 2 turns)
 
I have a boat next to Bangalore with 2 infantry and a musket. I have airships to wound the musket and possibly the knight. The odds of successful amphibious capture of Bangalore next turn is >95%. I'm not certain I can get workers to the fallout of what I remember is 2 tiles that are in Banglore's culture. (I might be wrong about this).

In my opinion, it's not a matter of what we can do, it's more a question of what we must do. We do not need to capture Bangalore. Sure, we could do it (our first unit has 64.5% chance to win), but do we really have to do it? No. We can keep our war going with Gandhi as long as it takes to clean up the fallout in his borders. There should just be the one tile labeled "Fallout" that will fall under Bangalore's 20% culture. Those units could instead start heading north to prepare for the American war, which is a bit tougher logistically and having units already on boats is an awesome way to hit his western cities. Why risk losing any of them taking a city we don't need?

Spoiler :


I think there is a galley under the transport near Haiti? that can pick up the marine being built there and put him in the transport before it moves next turn. So I have 4+4+6 marines I think hitting Stalin in 2 turns.

In principle I agree about the tactical nukes. I'll have to take a look at the situation and see if I can position the transport/galleon fleet coming from Moscow area in a place where it can either go for the western Southern city or the capital. And then place the other two transports from Jamaica area and Haiti area where they could hit either southern city. Can anyone get a screenshot to see if this is possible? (in 2 turns)

We can have a lot of flexibility in attacking Stalin on T+2.

The southern transport (not shown) with 3 marines +1 more next turn from Haiti could be at the location labeled "S transport T+1" next turn. From there it can attack either southern city but should plan on hitting Novgorod. 4 marines vs. a gren and 2 LBs should be child's play.

The transport at "4 marines" could move to "Transport T+1" where it can hit all three of his cities.

The transport at "6 marines" could also move to "Transport T+1".

The galleon at "6 marines" has one movement point left, so it can be upgraded to a transport this turn. Then it too can be at "Transport T+1" next turn. If we don't upgrade it this turn, it won't make it though, so I think this one point is critical.

I suggest loading 4 units on one transport and 2 marines on the other one (the upgraded Galleon) at "6 marines" so that we can send 2 marines to Novgorod if the RNG goes completely against us, but the first battle vs. the gren will be > 85% and probaly >99% vs. the longbow, so this probably isn't required.

The 3 galleys (10 marines) at "Transport T+1" could go NE+NE, hit St. Petersburg and still make it all the way to Stalingrad. If RNG is "fair" then we should only need 3 marines to take St. Pete's and the fourth one on that transport can still join the Stalingrad attack if needed. That gives us 7 marines (or 6 if the RNG is bad) to take out 2 grens and 3 LBs in Stalingrad (a city that is 99% chance going to have 0% defenses with a successful spy mission).

This should definitely be a one-turn war if we play our cards right and the RNG doesn't go VERY bad for us.

EDIT: the important thing is to eliminate all nukes on the first strike.

Spoiler :
 

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Re: stalin plan
I really appreciate the screen shots since I'm away from the game. This looks like a good plan.

Re: the upgrade
Did you notice that the galleon has Navigation I so it has a 6 movement like the transport? (at least I hope I upgraded the right one)

Re: Bangalore
the survival odds are much better if the musketman is reduced by 20% by the airship nearby. And while I agree the units would be better used for Roosy, I would rather risk knocking out Bangalore this next turn and cutting off the war next turn rather than prolong it by even just 1 turn clearing fallout.

finishing the war next turn saves us a lot of gold since we can reduce the cultural slider after peace with Gandhi.

That gold can be used to build more units. Those units would be more useful than the no xp infantry I'm risking in Bangalore I think.
 
finishing the war next turn saves us a lot of gold since we can reduce the cultural slider after peace with Gandhi.

That gold can be used to build more units. Those units would be more useful than the no xp infantry I'm risking in Bangalore I think.

I agree with this.
 
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