Sid the Science Kid

I'll sign some OBs to check out their land. I'm thinking that since we want archers anyway for the attack, that we research hunting now, so that we can build a scout to make the scouting much more efficient.

Regarding city 5, I do think it's worth the imo limited cost. It's close to the cap, so maintenance should be manageable. Likely currency is the next big thing after construction and by then building wealth in that city will more than pay back all costs or otherwise it can build a good deal of units. Let's see if we have more opinions on the matter, :)
 
^^ well hunting, fishing, myst will be like 2/3 of math? seems like a lot. I always warn against too complicated game... let's streamline a bit

As for cats x LB's well normally you could attack cats against LB's if you have WE's and even then there is some pretty high attrition going.

Another problem is Engineering which AI's like to get

The timeframe for our attack can be big or can be pretty small...we will see.

i expect our military production to be trees and whips. Fish city has good whip potential, but will come online very late.

Each tree after math will be 2/3 of cat or archer+OF. So I would like to retain max of them.... that limits the number of things we can finish before war
 
I think the timeframe of our attack will barely be influenced by going for fish city, if at all, or even possibly for the better.

As for those 3 techs, we're talking about the 3 cheapest techs in civ. It's half of math in raw beaker cost, but hunting is needed in any scenario, so is inconsequential. Mysticism gives a discount on the required masonry, so partly pays back for itself, but could even be skipped if we settle next to fish. So then we're looking at a lousy 40 raw beakers for fishing, which will be less as all AIs will know it by now (likewise for hunting and myst). So for the hammers of a settler and effectively merely a turn of research we'll get back a city that I do think will be on time to contribute a couple of cats to the war effort, making up for the settler hammers. Yes, slightly added maintenance, but again rather inconsequential in the long run imo. I'm fine with streamlining, but you shouldn't overdo it either.

Now if you'd talk about bulbing engineering, then I might see a point. ;) Being traitless (not phi), I don't think it's a very viable strategy though.
 
The timeframe of attack is determined by:
1) Research power. With 4 cities research power will propably be a bit higher because of the maintenance from the fifth city. And Fishkebab city will not bring in that many beakers untill later. Needs a lighthouse and a library to run 2 scientists. We also need fishing as a detour. This will set us back quite a few turns.
2) Production power. With Fishkebab city we will have a good production city. It has good food to grow and good production tiles to use (fish, sheep and 3 plains mines at size 5 is a cat every three turns). So in terms of production we will be able to catch up the loss in time with research.

Is it an option to tech Alpha and bulb math? With alphabet we can backtrade all other techs like fishing/sailing/hunting/mysti/etc... and we can use the first GS to bulb math and from there go on to construction.
 
@Kill

I have to correct you somewhat... the attack timeframe is determined by the point AI's get Engineering and Feudalism, that thing is pretty variable, but there are some safe dates.

For example 500 BC attack date is pretty safe even for deity (regularly cited by AZ as safe date) and is my biggest determinant.

Everything later I consider gamble on our part, but on Immortal we have a little bit more time, but not that much. The date is probably moved some couple of centuries later.

We are already at 1600 BC, if we wanted attack by 500 BC we will have to have all infra and construction ready by ~800 BC (from my experience).

As for bulbing math... yes it's a possible way with early library, but we didn't choose that path (we still have to build the first library) and i think we will stick with eventual academy and going math right now.
It's something we either try to calculate by some spreadsheet or we will go based on experience and I think the experience says no to bulbing math in this situation.

One thing I am thinking a lot is how to shop around the techs we will have for techs we need. Especially hunting, archery, masonry are things I would like to not tech ourselfs (and when we're at it fishing could be good filler for beakers differences), but since we basically will have only math to offer it will be pretty tough

Btw whoever plays (nocho?) should put slider to 0% until we have the library in cap! That is very important.
We could bank something like 200-300 gold and then just run through the techs.

We will soon see if some crazy AI (Zara?) goes for early alphabet around 1k BC.
 
Good point about 0 science until library is in.

If no further comments and if I get that far, I think I'll settle fish on Cam's original L spot. It'll get up to speed fastest by a significant margin and won't need myst. Kebab may do the WB so it has fish from the get-go.
 
IT: Set tech to math, dial down slider to 0. Sign OB with Roos and Zara. Switch to slavery. Switch Anasazi to granary and rename it Rice City.

1560 BC: Found Kebab Central. Trade our only pig for English furs. We don't need the health for now and rather reserve the extra happy for us.

1520 BC: Vicky offers OB which I accept.

1240 BC: Capital has grown to size 8 (!) and 3 pop whips its library to be followed up by settler.

1200 BC: Sulei offers OB which I accept. Science back to 100%, math would be due in 7, but switch to fishing for the Fish city WB.

1120 BC: Fishing in, switch to maths.

1080 BC: WB whipped.

1040 BC: Gold City: Library -> Worker.

950 BC: We meet Fred the German.

925 BC: We found Fish City which gets instant fish. Mathematics is in. Nobody has alpha yet, so decide to spend another turn teching masonry.

900 BC: Masonry in, construction due in 7 at 100%. Slightly less money but must be squeezable or be had from organic growth.

We don't quite make it for 800 BC construction in and infra set, but it won't be that much later either. Granary in Rice can be whipped now or next turn.

Overview:



You can see the Ethiopian and American capitals. Ethiopia seems to be tucked away in the SW of the continent. The English are south of America across a water, but that might be a false sense of island, just like that barbarian city across the pond from Kebab city is clearly not on an island.
 

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looks good :)

it looks like we start building cats around 700 BC (too lazy to calculate perfectly and can't remember how many years is 1T)
then we still need hunting+archery

attack date is around 250 BC. I would probably choose Zara, but diplo is tricky. A lot of AI's likes Zara.
But the same can be said about Roosy too.

I don't want to be too picky, but there is 1 cottage unemployed east from capital (kebab should take over instead of working sheep which will end in fish's hands in 2T) and
we could change that flood farm to cottage and get 1 more cottage (and grow into more people) in rice city, I wouldn't whip there, not until we get construction in. Just slow build granary.

edit:
adding save with changed city tile micro, basically maximized flood plains tiles worked
 
Nice turnset Nocho. :thumbsup:

Ah, server screwed up, my story is gone. I was talking about the targets.
1) Zara: High cultural defense, but not buddhist yet. Diplowise maybe the best target. Zara is at the border so if we conquer him it is easier to defend.
2) Roosie: Did he build any wonders yet? If so, that makes him a tastier target. Diplowise harder to hit as he is buddhist. Both cities are better though then the two top cities of Zara. Boston and Washington are in the middle of the map so harder to defend.

Discussion time. I guess Zara needs to go first. He is normally focussed on expansion so army should be lighter.
 
Got it. Will post a plan tonight and play tomorrow (I'm away for the weekend)
 
Nice turnset Nocho. :thumbsup:

Ah, server screwed up, my story is gone. I was talking about the targets.
1) Zara: High cultural defense, but not buddhist yet. Diplowise maybe the best target. Zara is at the border so if we conquer him it is easier to defend.
2) Roosie: Did he build any wonders yet? If so, that makes him a tastier target. Diplowise harder to hit as he is buddhist. Both cities are better though then the two top cities of Zara. Boston and Washington are in the middle of the map so harder to defend.

Discussion time. I guess Zara needs to go first. He is normally focussed on expansion so army should be lighter.
I'd go for Zara first too. Most natural first target. From there we'll push our way east.
In general I'm not very fearful of war bribes. I just can't imagine the AI fielding an army of archers to go on the offensive. Would be pretty epic though. Attacko strikes back. :lol:
 
Plan:
Tech: Construction > Hunting > Archery

Cities:
Cherokee: Granary > Barracks > Cats
GoldCity: Worker > Barracks (>Gran?) > Cats
RiceCity: Granary
KebabCentral: Grannary > Barracks > Cats
FishCity: Granary > Barracks > Cats

Workers: cottage FP-farm, build roads towards Zara.
 
I agree on the plan. Gold city has 8 hammers to produce soon so let it build.
 
Played a short set. Construction, hunting and archery are in, there's a road towards Zara. GoldCity and KebabCentral are producing Cats already, Cherokee and FishCity will finish their barracks this turn so can start next turn.

Vicky has Alpha, so we might want to trade some stuff. I set research to Alpha as a placeholder.
Roosy build the Mids.

Sorry, no pics, but I really have to start packing.

Save is attached.
 

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looks very good Sengir

I think cam finishes the war preps and lymond launches the hell on earth.

With the current situation i am in favor of taking out Americas completely. Mids are very strong war objective and who knows how big timeframe we get (US will speed with techs now)

Not sure how to approach the "alpha situation"... the aim should be currency as ultimate "not going broke" tech.

will cross fingers that after L finishes US we will still have attack frame on Zara.
 
- I've got it.

In short - Cherokee gets its Great Scientist > Academy in a few turns and then swaps into full research mode, taking back the cottages. Other cities go through whip-regrow, with the view that we 2-pop whip Catapults and score an Archer with overflow. I'm assuming that we de-forest along the way also. I'm like vranasm - not sure whether to spend some effort on Alphabet to trade for it for Maths with Victoria, or hold off. I say a tentative 'yes' ... therefore, Alpha (1-2 turns) > Currency > Code of Laws > Civil Service looks appealing. I'm not too sure how brutal I should be with the whip.

Right general idea?
 
Ssst,

Can you hear it.....

No listen carefully....

I can hear the war horns :)

Plans sound good. Full cottage mode on capital with acadamy and America as first target then? Lets hope Roosie builds more wonderfull wonders for us.
 
time is very important.

I could imagine you would whip every 2nd turn no matter what (except that the button doesn't appear of course).
I think we could (and should) ignore a bit the usual rules of 2-pop whips for max OF, just get the units out... even with 1 pop whips.

if you do 3 whips round in all cities we look at 15 troops in 6 turns, ~4 turns for massing on borders... 10 turns attack date would be very good (400 BC?)
 
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