Yeah, it depends. With my tech freak playstyle, I like tech trading, but I got to admit that it's very gamey mechanic. If it's replaced by something that makes more sense, like absorbing ideas from a civ with which you have open borders, thus speeding up your research on a tech they already have. Spy tech steal might work like that... not give the tech outright, but speed up the research for a while.
No Tech Trading
- Thread starter Afforess
- Start date
Your style sound like mine. I agree that it's very gamey and not very similar to the real world. The spy tech steal sound pretty realistic - just think how much the U.S. helped the Soviet nuclear program after WWII.
All in all, it sound like an improvement, but it is a big departure from previous games of CIV.
mjs0
The 4th X
As several have mentioned above it is simply too early to judge whether I will like this or not. In most of my games I trade techs heavily, but I am not emotionally attached to it as a game mechanic.
After all, just because explicit trading of techs through the diplomacy menus disappears there is no reason to believe that some other equally valid and less intrusive way of spreading knowledge will not be introduced. (Beyond the shared research already mentioned)
After all, just because explicit trading of techs through the diplomacy menus disappears there is no reason to believe that some other equally valid and less intrusive way of spreading knowledge will not be introduced. (Beyond the shared research already mentioned)
GoodSarmatian
Jokerfied Western Male
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2006
- Messages
- 9,408
It seems they are changing so much in Civ5 that it's hard to say. I don't think we can really make a good judgement about a single issue while thinking in Civ1-4 terms about the rest of the game. Personally I think it is a very bold move and they are taking a lot of risks (and I'm not only talking abuot tech trading) but I'm excited and happy it won't be just another civ game with updated graphics and one or two new features.
It certainly looks like the game is going to be more strategic and require us to plan more in advance and that's most likely a positive development.
It certainly looks like the game is going to be more strategic and require us to plan more in advance and that's most likely a positive development.
duckstab
Child of Noble Family
I'm reserving judgment until I actually see the new research mechanics in action. I always found tech-trading to be one of the more unrealistic aspects of the game in any case. Eventually all good ideas (and many bad ones) are going to spread just by regular human contact, which is why I'd prefer a mechanism where technology naturally diffuses among civs that have contact with each other. Research, cooperative or not, could speed this process.
Disgustipated
Deity
The more I think about it, the more I like it. In Civ2 tech trading was a major weakness with me. I eventually grew better at "milking" the system. You had to learn, or you couldn't compete except for the easy diff. levels. Even on Noble, you fall behind if you don't trade, as the ai does so much of it. So the only reason I did trade as much as I did, was because I had to, not because I liked it.
In fact, I get lazy and forget to cycle thru the leaders when I get a new tech. It's too much micromanagement for me. And I know that gimps my gameplay.
I also found it strange you can give (and get) techs to countries that are furious you (though they are much less likely to give to you) either before or after a war.
In fact, I get lazy and forget to cycle thru the leaders when I get a new tech. It's too much micromanagement for me. And I know that gimps my gameplay.
I also found it strange you can give (and get) techs to countries that are furious you (though they are much less likely to give to you) either before or after a war.
CornPlanter
Emperor
Duh... depends on how it will be implemented.
I'm not too fond of tech trading, it's easily abusable and not very realistic either. But from gameplay perspective it was OK and worked.
I'm not too fond of tech trading, it's easily abusable and not very realistic either. But from gameplay perspective it was OK and worked.
I voted yes, mostly because I don't want to see simply the "no tech trade" option like civ4 has. There needs to be some way for a civ behind in tech to catch up the way they can if they research a tech no one knows. Being able to shift the balance of power throughout the game instead of being locked into position by early choices, mistakes, and luck is essential.
OzzyKP
Emperor
Same here. I always turn of tech trading. I'm very pleased they are doing away with it.
MethanalCHO
Chieftain
Personally, it would be nice to see tech trading come back. I used it a lot in Civ3, and though I used it less in CIV, it would be nice to see it in CiV. Tradeoffs such as "feudalism (knights) for monarchy (wine)" are an intersting choice that should not be prohibited. If nothing else, it should at least be optional (select if No Tech Trading is on or off), for some players (myself, for instance) may still like it.
Loppan Torkel
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2004
- Messages
- 4,756
Meh. This only works the other way. If they implement it, they should include an option to turn it off. They haven't got it right before, so it's better to drop it and focus on other aspects. Maybe a better diplomatic/espionage system will replace the techtrading.
Roland Johansen
Deity
I like the fact that there's no technology trading in civilization V. It means that research choices are no longer dominated by the tech trading mini game but are dominated by what will help your civilization most and the joint research deals you can make with friendly civilizations. The new research deals wouldn't be as important for quick research with technology trading in the game. Those research deals will likely be a very important diplomatic feature. You might have to choose between forming a good diplomatic relation with several other civilizations in order to research faster or going to war to conquer more land. Those are the kind of interesting choices I like.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
I'm intrigued by the idea of not having it. My hope is being near a civ with a tech will make it easier to obtain that tech to reflect the idea of knowledge sharing. Tech trading as it happened in the game doesn't really happen in real life (at least not for the bulk of techs), but there's still the fact that people gained their knowledge from others and that's inescapable.
That sounds like a very good idea! Knowledge sharing, whether intentional or not, is more relevant historically than "trading" unrelated knowledge. Although I used tech trading in Civ 3 and 4 (never played 2), I admit it's not realistic. That's just how the game made it and we got used to it. But it's better gone.
One thing I particularly like about the new system of cooperational research is that it forces civs to cooperate on a going-forward basis, so now if you have a research treaty with a civ, you will actually be somewhat concerned for their welfare since you are counting on them to help you tech over several turns. With tech trading, all you have to is check the diplomacy screen every few turns to see if anyone has anything new for you to acquire. This new system facilitates real cooperation among civs, which will make diplomacy much more interesting. I'm very excited for it.
One concern about the abolishment of tech trading is how can one help his own allies with weapons technology once a war starts and also how does one blackmail other civs for technology.
What I mean to say is, perhaps cooperative research should be allowed for technologies discovered by one civ and not the other. The civ that already has the tech will get nothing from the cooperation.
Perhaps then we will have this: A mongol horde shows up at your doorstep and Genghis says, help us get catapults or we sack your city. You say yes, wait a few turns to amass your troops and then send the leeching Mongol thinking heads back to Genghis in a basket. 15 turns later Genghis throws them back at you with his brand new catapults.
What I mean to say is, perhaps cooperative research should be allowed for technologies discovered by one civ and not the other. The civ that already has the tech will get nothing from the cooperation.
Perhaps then we will have this: A mongol horde shows up at your doorstep and Genghis says, help us get catapults or we sack your city. You say yes, wait a few turns to amass your troops and then send the leeching Mongol thinking heads back to Genghis in a basket. 15 turns later Genghis throws them back at you with his brand new catapults.
honestly, i would much rather see a form of tech diffusion based on relations, trade, and geography. maybe tanks shouldn't get beat by spear-men, but spear-men shouldn't EXIST alongside tanks. i think it would be much more realistic if technologies behind the cutting edge sort of leaked into neighboring countries and trade partners, thats how it works in the real world. powerful nations are able to keep their top techs to themselves, but less developed nations get the second hand tech, and so they aren't that far behind.
the exception is in geographically isolated areas that don't trade with the developed world.
i think the new system of cooperative research is closer to real life than the wholesale tech trading.
the exception is in geographically isolated areas that don't trade with the developed world.
i think the new system of cooperative research is closer to real life than the wholesale tech trading.
Loppan Torkel
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2004
- Messages
- 4,756
Maybe they could be a bit more flexible in what it takes to research different techs. Nuclear power/weapons and the Internet aren't really "discovered" the same ways.
I always play with tech trading off, mostly because I got used to doing so in multiplayer. It was just too easy for two players to erase the tech lead of an AI, or another player by planning ahead and never overlapping their research. I hope cooperative research won't be that overpowered.
