Hiawatha

smallfish said:

Yeah El Cee, it'll be interesting to see if he goes on a rampage with Bombers... oh god bombers vs. chu guns, I hate to see them die like that

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Yeah, AI bombers are so annoying. Part of the problem is they almost *always* go into Modern via Flight before going down to Artillery because they don't give a crap about Fertilizer/Railroads, even after the tech tree was re-ordered specifically to get the AI to care about Railroads, which is why Ne. Castle is so easy to get late in the game. It's a shame because I always feel compelled to push hard to Flight + Biology all the time to get Triplanes up, which makes the later game less interesting. I'll probably end up blowing Oxford on either Flight or Ballistics(AA Guns + Machine Guns).

Hopefully I can get Harald involved to be fodder if it comes to dealing with Bombers

Last game he was my closest neighbour so obviously I prioritized killing him as quickly as possible, put archers and warriors around good city spots and killed two of his settlers, he STILL got four cities up before I got together a force to take his capital.

Anyway I razed all but his capital and left him with one really crap city with no lux and -12g/turn.

Usually that is effectively the end of any AI but sure enough he got back to six cities and I had to go raze them all again because he was cutting off trade routes.

If i find him close to me, ill put my whole nation into war-mode and start marching my army towards him immediately.
Ill even neglect defending other fronts just to take him out asap.

Rome and Russia can be equally bad though...

Securion said:

If i find him close to me, ill put my whole nation into war-mode and start marching my army towards him immediately.
Ill even neglect defending other fronts just to take him out asap.

Rome and Russia can be equally bad though...

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Absolutely. I'd add germany to that list. They can get downright unstoppable if they spawn too far away and have barbs to convert.

Hiawatha is ridiculous. He's the one civ I actually cringe upon seeing.

As a couple others have said, the AI production bonuses at higher difficulties mean that the AI's Longhouses become more and more potent as the game gets harder. Moreover, because everything gets built faster, that means he's more likely to get libraries, universities, and the science buildings closer to when he completes the required tech (Writing or Education or whatever). Thus, things begin to cascade: he quickly has more units than you, then more techs, then more units that are also more advanced.

The worst is the teching of Hiawatha. I can be a quite tall Korea and see him ~ 5% ahead of me around the mid-game, and throughout much of the rest of the game he continues to pull away a percentage point at a time no matter what I do: RA's, buy GSs with faith once I can. Just silly.

I've heard about Austria being a huge runaway, too. But for me, Hiawatha seems to be the worst. I play mostly Immortal and Emperor, so many I just haven't played enough Deity to see Austria at its worst, but I'd much rather face Austria than Hiawatha thus far.

Whenever I see Hiawatha, I'm torn between wanting him to start near me so I can take him out early and wanting him as far away from me as possible

I am currently playing against him, and although he is not running away regards score he certainly is spamming cities all over the place. I am in the deep South and he is right in the North, I settled a city admittedly slightly toward him in the North. He soon let me know how unhappy he was that I had settled in (his) area. However, a short time later one of his settlers built a surprise city right at the bottom of the continent, below my own ones!!

He is incredibly expansive. In my current game he is popping cities in the middle of everyone elses territory.

I went with a hug map and 20 civs and Epic pace just to see if AI would expand like crazy. Its stopped everyone but him, Austria, and Grecece. The difference being he is building cities in all quadrants of the map while Austria is expanding in 1 cluster.

I'll add Austria in as a good runaway candidate as well, even on King levels. Last 3 games she has been in she crushed some pretty good competition, including Romans, Incas, and Persians. Most impressive is she gobbled them up when they were quite large. I have also found that she is not as quick to marry the city states as she was prior to the patch, but she still does it, it just happens late game. Slow starter and can be taken out early, but can very much sneak up on you with a strong push in late game.

I see your Hiawathas and I raise you my Hiawatha.

I was in middle of war when this screen popup happened.



;D

Anyways, this is the current game in progress.



Netherlands cannot decide if he loves me or hates me.

Iroquois decided that I am in his way for world conquest.

Korea decide to be my buddy after he watched my troops advance upon his city of Seoul.

Theodora is surviving due to my stubborn assistance of resources to them of 5 oil, alum, and coal for free because sucks to be Hiawatha XD And Theodora is putting them to good use, she have battleships and such the last time I checked her capital lol. And any lux / gpt she requests from me.

Huns was bosom buddy of netherlands and Iroquois which got eliminated, to be fair.. they killed my buddy turks and almost killed byzantines.

England went and got her ship of the line captured by my privateers which made me giddy because I recently built those privateers long time ago lol Was my first ship of the line I ever got one way or other.

Ethiopia thinks I smell.


Anyways, My Hiawatha is being one sneaky guy. After his initial failure to bring world of pain on me in Greek city of Argos... Alot of stealth bombers and nuclear missles went poof to my fleet of bombers and dessy smashing it instantly.

He stewed for awhile and launched an triple simulateous attack upon Cities of Phocaea, Ragne, and Sunblade. That was impressive and surprising to be honest. Because prior to today I have never seen civ 5 AI do that kind of attack seriously. Not even in civ 4. Not even in civ 3. And Locations of all three cities is VERY DISTANT FROM EACH OTHER.

I present you Phocaea.


I present you Ragne.


I present you Sunblade.



Now, as you can see.. I still have control of those cities, why? Well that's because I'm no AI. <_< He was basically foiled by unexpected local defense forces.

Phocaea had six submarines patrolling it so when his small airforce fleet with an convoy and bb/dessys arrived it was routed because I smashed the dessys before moving to sink the Carriers with my submarines. Almost lost Phocaea, land forces consisted of just one Infantry and Paratrooper.

As for Ragne.

I was in middle of building another fleet there to protect the once vulnerable western flank of my empire. Iroquois simply launched too slowly because I built three groups of submarines from my western cities, two hardbuilt and third was rushbought from each city. As of consequence, his fleet which was a mixed BB/Carrers/Dessys with bunch of land troops got routed as soom as my 15+ submarines sunk all the opposing dessys. If Iroquois arrived 20 turns earlier, I would've had only few dessys and a bunch of land garrisons ungarrisoned to do battle with him and probably lost ragne lol.

And for Sunblade, it was just simply poor planning on his part. he sent a huge force of Mech Infantry and Rocket Artillery. Problem?

U see, those is netherland cities and not Iroquois cities bordering me.. so my Fighters had a field day blowing up his rocket artillery while my Mech Infantry just stayed on guard and fortified. They got chewed up lost all artilleries and half of mech infantry before he gave up and paid me tribute.

But honestly, a triple attack? Seriously? I HAVE NEVER SEEN THAT HAPPEN TO ME BEFORE! Difficulty's on king lol.

Currently Iroquois's in war against netherlands and England presumely to remove them out of the way because i'm guessing Hiawatha got sick of failed distant thrusts at my territory and decided to try kill those two in order to gain direct access to my lands.
Yes, Netherlands was an loyal friend of Iroquois but they got backstabbed lulz. As well as England presumably for their failures to bring me down to heel.

Iroquois and Netherlands duked it out with their armies for awhile then unleashed the nuclear weapons.



England can suck it though xD I don't care if she lives or dies lol. England always hated me anyways and I will help myself to her cities if she loses to iroquois.

With recent Iroquois vs Netherland Exchange of radioactive love, that put me into #1 position for the biggest army. Lots of soldiers died. I plan to help out Netherlands in claming the ex greek cities. After that's done, I help myself to Iroquois's colonies west of Phocaea and after that's done, its the Iroquois's heartland for me XD


What I mentioned in this post is just a small story of what has happened in that current game in progress <_< Because it neglects to mention the frequent Alliances vs Germany wars. I got dogpiled like three or five times.

No offense Callonia, but why don't you just churn out a huge ass bomber force supplemented by tanks and slap that smudgy Netherlands guy in the face? I mean you got 122 oil, that's like 100 bombers and 22 tanks that can kill fckin ANYTHING... You even have the happiness to support all his cities (on a side note, how is it possible that you gained 464 happiness anyway??!). Use the advanced troops to secure your borders against backstabs and mr. runaway and use the drafted (and sacrificable) troops with low exp to soak up damage and conquer territory. If you have to, pull back your forces from your border cities if they get nuked and swoop in for the kill after he sent his expeditionary forces into your territory. Upgrade your experienced veterans to aluminium units after sucking up the Netherlands (as he has a huge stack of resources most likely), build up a new army with oil based units, rinse and repeat, onward to world domination. Based on an educated guess I'd say you can finish this with this method within 100 turns if you take your time with total world domination and 50 turns if you hurry and split up your armies.

P.S: Border cities sole purpose in the late game is to get nuked, don't even bother trying to make them something useful.

dopingman said:

No offense Callonia, but why don't you just churn out a huge ass bomber force supplemented by tanks and slap that smudgy Netherlands guy in the face? I mean you got 122 oil, that's like 100 bombers and 22 tanks that can kill fckin ANYTHING... You even have the happiness to support all his cities (on a side note, how is it possible that you gained 464 happiness anyway??!). Use the advanced troops to secure your borders against backstabs and mr. runaway and use the drafted (and sacrificable) troops with low exp to soak up damage and conquer territory. If you have to, pull back your forces from your border cities if they get nuked and swoop in for the kill after he sent his expeditionary forces into your territory. Upgrade your experienced veterans to aluminium units after sucking up the Netherlands (as he has a huge stack of resources most likely), build up a new army with oil based units, rinse and repeat, onward to world domination. Based on an educated guess I'd say you can finish this with this method within 100 turns if you take your time with total world domination and 50 turns if you hurry and split up your armies.

P.S: Border cities sole purpose in the late game is to get nuked, don't even bother trying to make them something useful.

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Because I'm having fun roleplaying I don't play the game to beat the game only play to play the game.

But you could also have fun role-playing a warmongering, genocidal maniac, right?

Callonia said:

Because I'm having fun roleplaying I don't play the game to beat the game only play to play the game.

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I'm roleplaying too! As a bloodcrazy ******ed warmonger!

On a side note, Mister Oh-so-strong didn't have a good day today, this pop up made me literally lol. He was in the (un-)fortunate position to spawn 30 tiles east of me and I rolled China. Well you can guess the rest. Hint: The Chu-chu train had no brakes. [Emporer, Pangaea, large, standart speed]

Browd said:

But you could also have fun role-playing a warmongering, genocidal maniac, right?

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I AM A BLOODYTHIRSTY WARMONGER!

I killed two city states known as la venta and colombo, greece, china, huns.

China was in my continent.

Huns was biggest competitor for the german lake and had a bunch of cities in southern reaches of the main continent i'm on.

Greeks, removed them before they could adopt that policy which decreases my influence with city states.

La venta and colombo was just in the way for greeks to die.

I have dow'd over 10 times. ;D

Hiawatha afraid? Try Sejong Afraid



He entered Indu pretty late (T190s), but then blasted into Modern, Atomic and Info really super fast

Then he DOWed the Reich, along with Oda Nobunaga, Dareois, Gandhi, Kamehameha...




Also, is this really a surprise attack if its happening right in front of your own two eyes?

I don't have the Korea DLC so I don't know which attitude Sejong normally shows :-/

That Super Special Agent Carl was one of the special kids in school?

He surpassed Greece as the most annoying AI for me. He always seems to have the biggest landmass, even with random personalities.

I am feeling particularly masochistic today. Just about to start a pangea game with all these gobhorsehockyes.

I started a game last night, and I ended up having Hiawatha as an immediate neighbor. He spawned about three cities by turn 50 and I had nowhere to settle a second city (unless I settled right next to him).

I ended up quitting when at turn 100 when he had almost a dozen mohawk warriors headed my way...

Ramkhamhaeng and Darius can be pretty frustrating to play against. They both grow huge empires with the support of city-states.