Need help moving up to Immortal

I'm not too experience on Civ 5, but I've been playing this franchise since Civ 1. Played my first Immortal game this week with England aiming for a Science victory. I won the game but it was very, very close to a science loss. My main problem in that game was that I couldn't keep up with the military power of the other nations (I was always the weakest or one position better than that).

So I tried my second game playing France for a culture victory. My idea was to try to keep a better military to avoid getting DoW'd and play a peaceful game. Well, it didn't work. Spain was just beside me and DoW'd me when I had only 3 Warriors, but I could hold it. Than I made a Defense pact with China to avoid future wars, but the Iroquois (most powerful civ) DoW'd China and I was drawn to war also.

I just can't keep up with military. Their production is so high and they are way far ahead in science. How do you manage that?

One tip is never use Defense Pacts, for the very reason you observed -- they do not avoid wars; they just get you dragged into wars you don't want to be in.

Second tip is try to ally a militaristic CS or two -- gifts of units are quite useful. even if the specific units aren't necessarily what you want.

Third, you can't keep up with AI production bonuses on Immortal or Deity, so don't think that way. What units you choose to produce are what matters. For example, you should never have an army consisting of 3 warriors. You have your initial warrior, which is fine, and probably a scout running around scouting. The Scout may be upgraded to an archer (which is good), and the warrior may be upgraded to a spearman (also good). Don't bother producing melee units for defense -- focus on researching Archery and spam archers (at least 1 per city, and perhaps a couple more for CS barb quests (and as a general reserve). You should be able to hold off most invasions with 3-4 ranged units and your initial warrior.

And trade routes to the AI civs will help a bit on keeping up with science, but general science advice is to grow your cities ASAP and get NC up as soon as reasonably possible. By the time you hit the Renaissance, you should only be a few techs behind.

Also, don't trade embassies with any AI civs that are close to you, for quite a while. Once they have an embassy in your capital, they can see if there are any units or not. If there are no units in your capital, they have a greater chance to DoW you.

Immortal and Diety are all about 'catchin up'. If you think that someone is going to attack you, you need to try and bribe another civ to attack them, or bribe them to attack someone else.

I'm still learning Immortal/Diety myself, but those are a few of the other strategies I've picked up along the way.

I'd suggest reading the Domination guides for Deity to get an understanding of how war works at those difficulties. You'll quickly see that they all require tricks to take advantage of the AI. If you're trying to play a peaceful game you'll never be able to keep up militarily and build all the structures you need to achieve the goal you're going for. You pretty much have to constantly bribe the war mongers to attack the other civs.

Another useful thing to do is use a Civ that is built for the victory condition you're shooting for (or just use Poland).

Highlight of moving up from Emperor to Immortal: Skip all early world wonders. With less world wonder building, you can build 4 archers and then keep them upgraded for defense.

Tall Tradition tactics neatly avoid the "You are expanding too rapidly" diplomatic penalty that Wide Liberty tactics run into.

Defense Pacts: Unless you are positive that an AI is about to DOW you during the next few turns, avoid. Definitely skip if you think the AI asking for one would actually be attacked.

Guides written at Deity level will work at Immortal with one exception. The AI won't keep a large enough early science lead on Immortal for the early trade route for science tactic that works well on Deity to be better than standard early food cargo route.

You want to grow your pop and generally favor beakers while you make sure you have enough troops to defend. it takes about 6 shooter units to defend yourself. Then tech Philo, to Edu, to public schools. Trade stuff with your close neighbors to make them happy while you build a defense.

Thank you all for your help. I'm thinking about restarting my current France game using your tips and see what happens.

I'd suggest reading the Domination guides for Deity

Click to expand...

Any specific guide you suggest?

perr0 said:

Thank you all for your help. I'm thinking about restarting my current France game using your tips and see what happens.

Any specific guide you suggest?

Click to expand...

This one helped me with the thought process of warmongering. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=503931

You should be able to see what that guy says you need and reverse engineer a defensive force. What I think most people recommend for a 4 city tradition opener is 4-6 CB can hold most invading forces up into late industrial.