The worst Civilization for a OCC. (BNW)

I might play Rome next considering.

My first playthrough was Iriqous. Managed to win with them. :D

I actually found that Bee-lining to Scientific Theory was nice because you get the Public School and the one production from Lumber-Mills, I think I had like four lumber-mills and combined with their Workshop I managed to get a 1/4 tile.

It's pretty nice when you think about it, although I'm not sure if I would have that over the 10% bonus that they lose, I just rush bought it when I had the money, since its also a cheaper Workshop.
 
if the forest is next to a river, it becomes a 1/5 with Hydro Plant :] a really tall city can kick out any wonder in no time, you can get as close as 300 hammers per turn on spaceship parts as well.
 
stormtrooper412 said:
if the forest is next to a river, it becomes a 1/5 with Hydro Plant :] a really tall city can kick out any wonder in no time, you can get as close as 300 hammers per turn on spaceship parts as well.
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With Statue Of Liberty and River start for the Hydro Plant your capital becomes a beast for production. Getting Hubble is extremely good in combination to the production I was making and I had Freedom which means I went for the buy spaceship parts in case if I wanted to finish quicker, I could make Spaceships parts every four turns and nuclear nukes every 3/4 turns.

The level one tenants for Freedom I went was food from specalists is halfed and 25% great people generation, especially when you get Statue of Liberty it becomes more useful because you can still grow and get the great people what you want to get.

I really disliked Iroquois for a OCC nation, but after playing with them and testing their Workshop out, I feel like they're not the worst nation for a OCC.
 
klaskeren said:
Brazil with jungle bias sucks aswell for anything but culture
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That culture game would be pretty good though, Endless carnival! You'd need a few wonders like the Louve, which is usually available but it wouldn't be bad.
 
I've had issues with Brazil because that jungle sets you back in tech race A LOT because you need to tech more for luxury techs and that's not exactly on the way to Education. Maybe I was just playing it wrong.

Also, I forgot about the Statue of Liberty perk there, because I usually go Order for some reason
 
stormtrooper412 said:
I've had issues with Brazil because that jungle sets you back in tech race A LOT because you need to tech more for luxury techs and that's not exactly on the way to Education. Maybe I was just playing it wrong.

Also, I forgot about the Statue of Liberty perk there, because I usually go Order for some reason
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Does Jungle really set you back on Tech? Probably some but jungle beakers are a decent consolation prize, plus if its a bunch of jungle you've probably got a few bananas and now Cocoa, the real bummer on jungle starts are the lack of hammers, pray for gems.
 
Interesting question, lots of responses. Rome is very hurt, but I think OCC (box checked) hurts Austria the most. I guess she (and Venice) still get the units, but the cost is too high, since the CS starts to burn down.

joncnunn said:
Do you mean with the advanced option selected (which means any captured cities are auto razed?) In that case, Venice, which is designed around the soft version.
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I don’t see how nerfing the MoV hurts Venice much too much, especially since it could still be used for trade missions. Outside of OCC, puppets barely move any VC along anyway. If a CS were firmly aligned with a non-warring opponent, use of MoV to buy-and-burn the CS could be a viable strategy.
 
Austria still gets the units from CS marriage at a dramatic price discount and the coffeehouse is better than anything Rome brings to the table from and OCC box checked standpoint.
 
Venice also still gets the units from MoV. I agree with you that the coffeehouse is a very nice UB, so the lost opportunity cost to Austria to loose 3+ of them really hurts. Neither Venice nor Rome has a UB, so no harm from that aspect of OCC.
 
Venice in OCC is actually not all that different from regular Venice. I'd expect it only to pose a challenge on Immortal/Deity, so I disagree there
 
I would say that Rome is the worst for hard, raze-any-cities OCC. Simply because they have no UB, and their UU's all come early in the game, so you'd either have to beeline them and get really aggressive on neighbours or city states (and then you lose out on all the other aspects of your game and delay techs) in the hope of getting a good peace deal... or you'd have to ignore them, and then you're playing a civilization with no UU's, UB's, or UA, with a fairly mediocre start bias.
 
Human Crouton said:
Agreeing with Rome. Absolutely no UA, and things get even worse if they don't have iron within range of their capital.
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Agree with Rome, agree that the UA disappears in a OCC, but what do they need iron for? Legions are slightly stronger swords that can build roads, but where O where would they build the roads to? Might as well use pikes
 
ShakaKhan said:
Agree with Rome, agree that the UA disappears in a OCC, but what do they need iron for? Legions are slightly stronger swords that can build roads, but where O where would they build the roads to? Might as well use pikes
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Perhaps they would be building a road to satisfy a CS request? Or, strategically, to help with the movement of troops through rough terrain? Also, building roads in all of Rome's hexes can provide a great defensive advantage.

Your point is valid, but the Legion's roadbuilding isn't entirely without use, plus Legions upgrade to better units than do pikes, IMHO.
 
Shark Diver said:
Perhaps they would be building a road to satisfy a CS request? Or, strategically, to help with the movement of troops through rough terrain? Also, building roads in all of Rome's hexes can provide a great defensive advantage.

Your point is valid, but the Legion's roadbuilding isn't entirely without use, plus Legions upgrade to better units than do pikes, IMHO.
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the point was intended more as humorous anecdote emphasizing the fact that Rome's design heavily favors expansion and a Roman OCC negates most of what makes them Rome. I'm well aware that there are reasons for roads other than connections. It wasn't to be taken literally, much like I wouldn't take your point literally, since in a OCC where you basically paint a bull's-eye on yourself necessitating higher unit maintenance cost and have only have 1 production site, "building roads in all of Rome's hexes" would incur a cost of 36 GPT in road maintenance which probably outweighs the benefit
 
ShakaKhan said:
the point was intended more as humorous anecdote emphasizing the fact that Rome's design heavily favors expansion and a Roman OCC negates most of what makes them Rome. I'm well aware that there are reasons for roads other than connections. It wasn't to be taken literally, much like I wouldn't take your point literally, since in a OCC where you basically paint a bull's-eye on yourself necessitating higher unit maintenance cost and have only have 1 production site, "building roads in all of Rome's hexes" would incur a cost of 36 GPT in road maintenance which probably outweighs the benefit
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For what it's worth, the humor in your earlier post did come through. I chuckled first (mind you, not a guffaw) before responding. That said, the road usage aside, I still generally prefer a swordsman to a pikeman for the upgrade path, if for no other reason. It's not an overwhelming preference, as both have their uses.
 
Shark Diver said:
For what it's worth, the humor in your earlier post did come through. I chuckled first (mind you, not a guffaw) before responding. That said, the road usage aside, I still generally prefer a swordsman to a pikeman for the upgrade path, if for no other reason. It's not an overwhelming preference, as both have their uses.
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Concur with preferable upgrade path. I consider pikes as essentially maintenance free, however, as utilizing pikes allows someone to sell all of your iron until you hit navigation, by which time you have a more established economy. Also preferable in single player, since the AI makes more mounted units, at least compared to a human player.
 
ShakaKhan said:
Concur with preferable upgrade path. I consider pikes as essentially maintenance free, however, as utilizing pikes allows someone to sell all of your iron until you hit navigation, by which time you have a more established economy. Also preferable in single player, since the AI makes more mounted units, at least compared to a human player.
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I certainly hope I haven't come across as being anti-Pike. I certainly would never discriminate against those useful fellows. Once upon a time, before I'd really started thinking about this game more logically, I NEVER built pikes. I have changed those evil ways and I like your point about being "maintenance free". Tis true, and an extra 4-6 iron for bribes can keep one out of unwanted war far more effectively than 4-6 swordsmen at times.

I find myself having too look up the various upgrade paths of late-game units. This is probably because I tend to go Freedom most of the time and rely on my Foreign Legion -> Infantryman upgrade far more often than I upgrade units like Lancers/Cavalry. I find it far more cost-effective.

Did we get off topic?
 
OCC is like 80% luck of the land you settle anyways..... Good land plus HG = win. Bad land = lose no matter what. There is very little strategy in OCC.

This means that any civ with a decent start bias is going to have the biggest advantage.
 
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