Early game build order

I usually go scout scout monument, early ruins are wonderful.

minor poll here, what is the production that you would normally have in your cap before starting to make settlers? I'm asking this because I'm starting to consider getting mining as second tech and mining hills with my worker, that way I can start building settlers on 3 pop.
 
Gustavus Rex said:
Amount off settlers depends of map. I go for 2-4 cities and I like to found them asap.

Continents: Scout, monument, shrine, arsher/warrior, settler, settler, settler.

Pangea: scout, scout, monument, shrine, settler, settler, settler.

If I can get pantheon other way - no shrine!

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Click to expand...

This is almost verbatim what I do. Exceptions in unusual circumstances, but definitely only 1 scout on Continents.

(Well almost verbatim….I almost never "Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk"….I'm too linguistically challenged :p)
 
Sessy said:
I'm asking this because I'm starting to consider getting mining as second tech and mining hills with my worker, that way I can start building settlers on 3 pop.
Click to expand...

Tabarnak choose to start an early settler at pop 2. Klaskeren likes your way. Tommynt seems to priorize scouts, so he starts settlers later.
I use to start settler after my shrine so pop 4. On average start I delay it until I pop 4. I always have a tie between AH and mining after potery. I depends of the dirt. Its something like 60/40 for mining. 100 % for mining if I have a lux which need mining.
 
I usually go:

scout scout shrine settler
scout scout settler

2 scouts and a warrior are good to explore early . For a great start you are kinda banking on getting 20 culture from a camp. If you dont can still hit 2nd policy rationalism without much trouble. The 2 scouts are also used to sit on minor citys to steal workers and escort the reasonably early settler.

The 2nd scout can be changed to an atalist or archer if you got it out a camp by a miracle. Warrior can be good if its build time coincides with growing to size 3.

If its clear you are on a small island then 2 scouts wont make sense and can go monument or warrior.
 
You might be interested to watch this start by tommynt playing the Inca:

http://youtu.be/E9LpMccSBQ4

He builds four scouts then a settler, while researching mining first, then iron working (or is it bronze working? -- I always get confused -- anyway, the one that reveals iron). He opens Tradition (and it seems that this is pre-patch, before the Tradition tree was changed).
 
Gustavus Rex said:
Continents: Scout, monument, shrine,

Pangea: scout, scout, monument, shrine,
If I can get pantheon other way - no shrine!
Click to expand...

Same for me almost always. I want two quick scouts on Pangaea type maps. With standard size 8 civs and 16 CS, there's too much that I want to find ASAP. If I can find a quick culture ruin, I won't make a monument if I open Tradition and will wait for Legalism.

On Continents I think one scout is usually adequate, although I might make a 2nd if I can sense there's a large unexplored region I need to uncover quickly.
 
Scout x2, monument, shrine, archer (x2), settler x2 (or x3 if production and happiness is very good).

Pre-patch avoided the monument since Tradition had it pretty early.

Early units are very useful.
 
yeah the new BNW tradition tree kind of implies you HAVE to get a monument up in your cap because Legalism got pushed down the tree a bit. If you befriend a cultural CS it should work out better. I didn't really play BNW much so I can't really speak up anyway
 
What's the expert opinion (I am an Immortal player so not really expert) on whether to build a monument on Pangaea after your 2nd scout when you've already found an early culture ruin and have opened Tradition? This assumes that you researched Pottery first and now can build a shrine.

If I Tradition is open then I usually build a shrine etc and just accept the longer wait for legalism which often comes about the time I am making new cities.

I want my pantheon if possible and even God King rocks early on when there's nothing obvious and it is rather clear that bordering religous civs will overrun you later.

Lets say that you've settled in a normal spot where you have 5 pp/t to start.

As Ethiopia .. Stele first if there's some great pantheon possible? Stele first no matter what? I just tried this and with a decent start, Tradition and it's wonder helper and God King got GL on T32 Bulbed Philo and finished NC on T46.

As Spain, I think I certainly want two scouts on Pangaea as the bonus for finding a NW 1st is huge.

As Shoshone, I just make one more Pathfinder since I start with 1 and it typically takes 9 turns.

Comments..ideas please.
 
neilkaz said:
What's the expert opinion (I am an Immortal player so not really expert) on whether to build a monument on Pangaea after your 2nd scout when you've already found an early culture ruin and have opened Tradition? This assumes that you researched Pottery first and now can build a shrine.



If I Tradition is open then I usually build a shrine etc and just accept the longer wait for legalism which often comes about the time I am making new cities.



I want my pantheon if possible and even God King rocks early on when there's nothing obvious and it is rather clear that bordering religous civs will overrun you later.



Lets say that you've settled in a normal spot where you have 5 pp/t to start.



As Ethiopia .. Stele first if there's some great pantheon possible? Stele first no matter what? I just tried this and with a decent start, Tradition and it's wonder helper and God King got GL on T32 Bulbed Philo and finished NC on T46.



As Spain, I think I certainly want two scouts on Pangaea as the bonus for finding a NW 1st is huge.



As Shoshone, I just make one more Pathfinder since I start with 1 and it typically takes 9 turns.



Comments..ideas please.
Click to expand...


I also play Immortal and with randomish starts. Not build a monument kind of commits me to stick to tradition and makes me regret it later if I rather go honor or something instead. (I seldom regret tradition opener though)


When I want a special popular pantheon like food from camps I build shrine asap. On pangea I might build second scout a bit later in this case.




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These days i never play single player but pretty much exclusively duels and team games, and ive found that without barbs city states and ruins, the best build order is something close to this (but varies alot based on land of course):

Monument
Granary
Shrine
Worker
Settler
Settler
Settler
Worker
Circus
Worker

With tech path:
Pottery
AH
Bronze working
Trapping

All of the above varies ALOT with the land though sometimes its better to skip pottery if you have cow tiles for example and just grow to pop 4 fast with bronze working fast so, AH then Bronze.
 
I will build either a worker or a monument. Then a scout and an archer. By now my cap is at size 4 and I start work on a settler. I have found the next best place to settle and my archer is clearing the space. This method gets the settler out between turn 30-40. Its been working great every time.
 
I used to scoff at worker stealing, but now I can't even remember a time where I actually built a worker. If you go Liberty and build Pyramids, there is hardly need to steal more than 1 worker. Workers take unnecessarily long to build and can be enslaved way too easily.
 
I agree. The only time I build a worker is if I'm going for Stonehenge, which is even more rarely these days since it's only a good move for peaceful tradition play (since it slows down warmongering) and since the patch, it goes even earlier. With enough forests and production and food, I will go Monument-Worker (Pottery>Mining>Calendar) and chop my way to a T30ish Stonehenge, but it often goes T25 these days.
 
I would love to see an explanation of why SH is going so quickly after the Halloween patch. I don’t see anything in the notes that would account for that. I resent not really having a chance at it any more.
 
Wouldn't be surprised if AI prioritizing SH more is a knock-on effect of the Piety policy tree reorganization, which enhances the rewards for an AI pursuing a religion path.
 
I thought about that aspect Browd, but that just seems like too contoured a rationalization to me. Reformation is easier get, so piety is more desirable, so SH is more desirable? That is a fair amount of planning for a human player, and I just can’t believe the AI are that well programmed. Or is there something more obvious about the Piety policy tree reorganization that the AI would see as valuable?

Since the patch, have you noticed more AIs using piety more? I have not. OTOH, the change to how early SH goes is very apparent. Maybe only the AI that gets SH follows up with Piety? But if the AIs now value piety more strongly, missing SH should not effect that bias.
 
@Browd, Beetle: A lot of AIs chose Piety even before the patch. It's not that more are choosing it now, it's that the ones that do zoom through it even more quickly, and they are programmed (all of the AIs, including the ones that went Tradition) to do whatever they can to get a religion, above a certain cut-off score. Clearly, there are civs that don't give a monkey's. But those that do will do whatever they can to get it, including building wonders that give them faith. Sometimes, this decision-making process leads them to stupid choices like going DF with one desert tile, but if they are thinking, on T10 or so, "Hm, what shall I build in my capital?" and they have gone Calendar first and not Sailing, Writing or Bronze Working, then they will try to build Stonehenge. And if they have a great start, they can get it T21 now.
 
I hope they address this issue with Wonders in the next version. The issue with The Great Library and to a lesser extent ND and now this. Very bad.
 
consentient said:
@Browd, Beetle: A lot of AIs chose Piety even before the patch. It's not that more are choosing it now, it's that the ones that do zoom through it even more quickly, and they are programmed (all of the AIs, including the ones that went Tradition) to do whatever they can to get a religion, above a certain cut-off score.
Click to expand...

I completely concur. But none of that explains why SH goes earlier now than before the patch.

Clearly, there are civs that don't give a monkey's. But those that do will do whatever they can to get it, including building wonders that give them faith. Sometimes, this decision-making process leads them to stupid choices like going DF with one desert tile, but if they are thinking, on T10 or so, "Hm, what shall I build in my capital?" and they have gone Calendar first and not Sailing, Writing or Bronze Working, then they will try to build Stonehenge. And if they have a great start, they can get it T21 now.
Click to expand...

AIs could have gotten ST at T21 before the patch, most just did not bother. What changed to make SH so much more attractive?
 
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