How do you normally deal with "pure" jungle starts?

kaspergm · Jul 14, 2014

fallout3dc said:
Interesting, but why is salt considered the holy grail in this community?

Salt has a base yield of +1 :c5food:

and +1

, which is by default far superior to +2 :c5gold:

of normal luxuries.
Salt is improved by mine, which is easily accesible, and the mine improvement gives you +1 :c5production:

AND +1

(!?), which is again much superior to the normal +1 :c5gold:

most luxuries get when improved with plantation.
Chemistry will increase mine value with another +1 production.

This basically means that from ancient era, a Salt/plains tile will have a yield of 3 :c5food:

2

1

.

And then additionally you get the benefits of any normal luxury, ie. nationwide happiness and furthermore can trade it for gold or other luxes. Salt/desert tiles obviously are less attractive, but still, obviously better than Ivory/desert or Incense/desert tiles.

It's a mystery to me how game doesn't disciminate between salt and the other luxury resources, just like it does with Marble. Either they should have made it like that, or just a regular luxury (i.e. gold yields).

kb27787 · Jul 14, 2014

Sir Parker II said:
But is it worth the risk of not finding a good location before you fall too far behind?

In most cases, ANYTHING with a river (common enough) and at least a lux is better than pure jungle.
And in any case if you play in pure jungle you're going to fall VERY far behind on deity anyway.

Vitruvius · Jul 14, 2014

Forkandles said:
2 food, 3 science and 3 gold I think. Dont forget the science is base, so will be multiplied by your bonuses.

The idea isnt to support your specialists with these tiles, but to work them And some other 4 food+ tiles (mm unimproved bananas)

For a SV Id work a jungle trading post over any specialist apart from the science ones all day long.

Not sure if a jungle start can support more population than a grassland start, not to mention a grassland start can potentially have more hammers and everything snowballs better. I think the trading post science jungles is more fantasy than reality.

Chum · Jul 14, 2014

Vitruvius said:
Not sure if a jungle start can support more population than a grassland start, not to mention a grassland start can potentially have more hammers and everything snowballs better. I think the trading post science jungles is more fantasy than reality.

I agree. In my experience, jungle have always been stunted, which cripples late game science. Doesn't matter if you get 3 science off that trading post tile...you can never produce enough food to grow the city to epic proportions to work all the slots off that terrible food production. Unless you're ridiculously banana heavy, you're going to need to clear away jungle from rivers, and if you're not on a river, well....good luck with all that.

notyourtypical said:
If you get a jungle heavy start, Liberty is your best bet. You'll need the worker speed before a settler, and 1 production per city helps. I would also improve bananas on hills, as they'll give an extra hammer.

This is actually the best argument I've seen for Liberty yet.

fallout3dc · Jul 14, 2014

This is actually the best argument I've seen for Liberty yet.[/QUOTE]

agreed, looking at the liberty policies now, they actually seem to be made more for jungle starts and less for just wanting to spam the map to death. Good tip.

GoStu · Jul 14, 2014

kaspergm said:
Salt has a base yield of +1 and +1, which is by default far superior to +2 of normal luxuries.
Salt is improved by mine, which is easily accesible, and the mine improvement gives you +1 AND +1 (!?), which is again much superior to the normal +1 most luxuries get when improved with plantation.
Chemistry will increase mine value with another +1 production.

This basically means that from ancient era, a Salt/plains tile will have a yield of 3 2 1. And then additionally you get the benefits of any normal luxury, ie. nationwide happiness and furthermore can trade it for gold or other luxes. Salt/desert tiles obviously are less attractive, but still, obviously better than Ivory/desert or Incense/desert tiles.

It's a mystery to me how game doesn't disciminate between salt and the other luxury resources, just like it does with Marble. Either they should have made it like that, or just a regular luxury (i.e. gold yields).

Bingo. Salt has the ideal ratios of what you want early game - plenty of food, some production, and just a touch of gold to keep you going. Other luxuries either have no food, meaning you trade growth off for production/gold, or they're plantations with a bit of food but no production either, and you still need to work surplus food tiles.

Anyway, to the OP: depends a lot of the the jungle and the Civ I'm playing. If there's bananas, river, and some nice luxuries I'll play it out. If it's pretty flat jungle lacking any production and a silly resource like dyes, I'm out of there and rerolling, especially if I'm not in a civ that has any Jungle advantages.

fallout3dc · Jul 15, 2014

When would you build monuments/aqueducts if going liberty? I personally think that I am going to miss not having to build these in all my cities quite a bit :/ Monarchy is just fantastic too.

Walter E Kurtz · Jul 16, 2014

Jungle in moderation is excellent. The +1 :c5culture:

pantheon is very good for the early game. Finishing Tradition on turn 80 is awesome. Besides you've got caravans to grow your cap if you're worried about the 2 instead of 3 /4 food from a farm.

It's the dense jungle that is a problem, just move then like kb said.

Resipsa · Jul 16, 2014

Play a Liberty game, build Pyramids if you you think you can reasonably get it.

NeoNio · Jul 16, 2014

i have a similar question but for huge deserts with no rivers, at least with jungle you can chop it ,maybe i should open a new thread.

Callonia · Jul 16, 2014

NeoNio said:
i have a similar question but for huge deserts with no rivers, at least with jungle you can chop it ,maybe i should open a new thread.

That's correct, you need to open an new thread otherwise this content will be considered as off topic xD

How do you normally deal with "pure" jungle starts?

kaspergm

Deity

kb27787

Deity

Vitruvius

King

Chum

King

fallout3dc

Warlord

GoStu

King

fallout3dc

Warlord

Walter E Kurtz

Warlord

Resipsa

King

NeoNio

Chieftain

Callonia

Deity

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