Community Call to Power Project

lenin1917 said:

1. Industrial Revolution: completly change the production and the society

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I would think of Industrial Revolution as more of a policy than a tech... IMO, it's not exactly a breakthrough... Love the other ideas though!

lenin1917 said:

1. Computer: completly change science, society and can brings numerous other invention like internet

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I agree, though "computers" is kind of a vague breakthrough. The invention of the actual computer as we know it today was drawn out over several centuries! I think the real breakthrough which led us to computers as we know them today was the invention of semiconductors and microprocessors... Or the "stored program architecture" or von Neumann architecture (VNM machines), which was a major breakthrough which actually led to computers having "tool sets".

But all this is too vast and yet too specific... Maybe we should just stick with "Computers" ... I think the invention of the "semiconductor" was greater though, since it led to microprocessors and computers as we know them today...

Also I think this system is suitable for an implementation of Invention like in Victoria II, I explain. So lets say the french research steam power, it will trigger randomly an event where the french will discover the James Watt steam power machine and this invention will allow the french to build an Ironclad.

So we can have multiple invention in a tech and it allow a far more realistic way then Napoléon that decide to research the computer, and the repercussion of the tech are spread on a more realistic scale.

Futhermore, the percentage of chance the invention is discover can be trigger to each Civ so China have greater chance to discover Gunpowder than the european civ so the each civ will feel really unique.

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I want to make sure I understand this correctly... You mean that if a Civ researches a breakthrough tech first, they will have a chance to build a unique unit? This is an interesting idea. This would be even more interesting if, since you discovered the invention, would be the only one who would be able to build that specific unit.

Though I don't know how this would effect the balancing....

I only have one, but I hope it is a good one

Era: Industrial
Ideological Thought - From the industrial era to the early modern era was when new ideals and ideological theories were beginning, things such as the beginning of modern capitalism, communism and fascism. These ideologies are mainly on how to run a country - and with that things within the country like the agriculture, the economy - and the way society functions. And also how the military should be run.

I think this covers it all

nathanglevy said:

I want to make sure I understand this correctly... You mean that if a Civ researches a breakthrough tech first, they will have a chance to build a unique unit? This is an interesting idea. This would be even more interesting if, since you discovered the invention, would be the only one who would be able to build that specific unit.

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Thanks for asking my english is not really good

Ok, so if i take the Gunpowder tech in vanilla when a civ complete it they can build musketman right after.

Now with the invention (lets say Fireswork (the rocket that make colour in the sky when they explode )) The civ that research Gunpowder should wait under the form of an event, the discovery of this invention to be able to build musketman.

And civ like China who discover the Gunpowder long before the european can have a bonus so they will discover the invention earlier and be able to build musketman before the european.

I see that as an simpler alternative than do a unique tech tree for each Civ

Ouf hope this time its well explain And like the point you bring with invention for specific civ


And for the Computer breakthrough i agree with you maybe its to vast but for modern era we definetly need a breakthrought of this type

Military related:
Metallurgy/Smelting
Fusion
Plastics
Replaceable Parts/Assembly Line

Science:
Animal Husbandry
Evolution
Mathematics
Irrigation

Society:
Alphabet
Government
Currency
Printing Press

Just a few off the top of my head

I think allowing the researcher of a breakthrough to build one type of unit might outbalance the game significantly. Instead why not grant the researcher of a breakthrough a bonus promotion for all units build that required the breakthrough?

Well, until we get everything squared away why don't we hold off on any side effects. I'm not against them, but I do know that if we try to do too much at once, none of the things we do will be done right.

Speaking of which, I think this thread is just about ready to get a position in the Project Development section. I thought it would take a little longer, but the influx of ideas and contributions has moved things up nicely

Yeah, I think that allows more dedicated venting of ideas. Makes it a lot easier for you to keep track.

I am so happy, that this mod and its community is not dead. Just want to say thanks, at all guys and of course to chromerome, for the fresh discussion and good work. Since the patches make the game stable (i mean huge maps more than 16 civs and so on) i still went back to ciV and well with some mods the game is really challenging .
I hope i can offer for the future some ideas or help for the mod....

Giving a bonus to a breakthrough is a bad idea because the tech leader probably does not need a bonus of any kind. The only thing I would consider is possibly 1 free policy.

Sneaks said:

Giving a bonus to a breakthrough is a bad idea because the tech leader probably does not need a bonus of any kind. The only thing I would consider is possibly 1 free policy.

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Well at least if my breakthrough (Ideological Thought) got in, I guess a free policy would fit nicely for it

Well not to get sidetracked too much away from what we are currently doing but after reading the comments i thought i would throw in what i think about breakthrough bonuses.

I do agree with what sneaks wrote and in fact i would be inclined to do the opposite. The discovery of a major breakthrough usually resulted in a period of panic/discontent due to its radical ideas and implications. As such it might be worth adding a period of negative happiness after a major breakthrough which slowly reduces over time, similar to how changing policies works. The first civ that discovers it has a big penalty and the penalty reduces the more civs there are that discover it. So in this scenario being the first one there isn't necessarily the best option, i guess this would also allow for more "filler" techs in the eras eg a tech that gives a slightly more powerful swordsman etc.

But as i said we still got a long way to go before this

Edit: also as chrome said i think we desperately need to branch out into the project section, its getting confusing with everything in one thread

I agree with Sneaks and Fires. I'ma put that in my back pocket for now . And as for the Project Development, the verdict as of now is that this thread is too new to warrant our own forum. However, it was hinted that if (when) the admins see this thread still going strong a few months from now, the decision will be revisited. Until then, we will continue on as we have been. At the very least, this verdict gives us something to strive for

Modern era

1. Splitting of the Atom- Nuclear weapons and fission power.
2. Edison's bright Ideas- Transmittible electricity (AC), lightbulbs etc.

Ok, moving away from the tech tree for just a second (I know, I know ) I'm still working on the Modern Era. I think I will need two more games to get it squared away, and then I'll release. I'll also hazard a look into the settings for advanced starts and different game speeds, but I can't promise anything .By that time, the pictures that leeuw01 put together should be ready as well. A big Thank U goes to nathanglevy, who has taken the pics through a Photoshop session to get them all in a uniform style. I think you all will like it. And finally, Nuclear Dude has been putting together better social policy branches than the ones I had had previously. Essentially, they are more representative of the real life governments, rather than a conglomeration of interesting effects. This change will not be present in the next version, but I do want you all to be aware of the happenings behind the scenes.

And for Doc and zspace, I haven't been able to stop thinking about your fast games. I think what happened was that you did not have the (then) Gradual Research mod going, which will explain the fast tech speeds. If you haven't done so already, download V 1.25 (fixed) in the OP and you should be enjoying normal games again. I will take the lack of other complaints to mean that things are going well.

TanisX said:

Modern era

1. Splitting of the Atom- Nuclear weapons and fission power.
2. Edison's bright Ideas- Transmittible electricity (AC), lightbulbs etc.

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Edison hated AC for most of his life. AC was pioneered by Tesla, and the two really hated each other. Edison was the main proponent of DC, which would have required electrical substations (basically generators IIRC) every few miles, which he had the patent on.

Edit: Here's a link to the relevant wikipedia page.

@Jorlem: Thank you, that was very informative! I never knew that! (The wikipedia article is very interesting, I highly recommend it!)

@Chrome: About the different speeds - IMO, this should be low priority. Since this is a mod, and it changes pretty much everything to be balanced as the community sees fit, adding in the need to change and balance speeds will just make things so much more difficult. Besides, this mod was built to give a certain feel and speed of things... Why WOULD you need another speed? Doesn't it already feel epic enough as it is?

@Fires: About a slightly stronger swordsman - I actually saw this in a Civ-4 mod, where there was light, moderate and heavy swordsman. This made the transition between the ages smoother, AND allowed for a more stretched out era and tech tree, without the units getting too dragged out. I would like to see something like this in the future (IMO, the jump between certain unit strengths in the more modern eras is too high)

@Fires again, about unhappiness for breakthroughs: This is actually an interesting idea. But I'm worried all this added unrest for war/breakthroughs will become confusing... Is there a way to make it clear in the GUI where the unhappiness is from? I like the idea very much, since people going for science victory will now have a price attached to it. IMO it will make this more epic. Though this should be balanced carefully, or it might just bring the game to a grinding (and annoying) halt.

By the way, IMO, governments should work the same way, if you are the first to adopt it, that would lead to some unhappiness that would wear off. With short anarchy and lots of anger, there will be an interesting effect on the choice whether to change policies.

Since the social policy has been replased by gonverment will the cultural victory be replaced?

Can events in Civ5 cause a lowered production and lowered income for a set amount of time? If you fear adding too much unhappiness might make people run away, you can try lowering production an income after a breakthrough to mimic social distress.

But then again: that all is well for the 2nd Industrial Revolution. But did The Wheel and Writing really have such effects?

christos200 said:

Since the social policy has been replased by gonverment will the cultural victory be replaced?

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I've not contributed to and do not know much about this mod, but I think you can still get cultural victory through unlocking a certain amount of trees in the three categories. I don't think they'll get rid of this (to keep a good incentive on emphasizing culture), maybe just rename it.

chrome-rome said:

Ok, moving away from the tech tree for just a second (I know, I know ) I'm still working on the Modern Era. I think I will need two more games to get it squared away, and then I'll release. I'll also hazard a look into the settings for advanced starts and different game speeds, but I can't promise anything .By that time, the pictures that leeuw01 put together should be ready as well. A big Thank U goes to nathanglevy, who has taken the pics through a Photoshop session to get them all in a uniform style. I think you all will like it. And finally, Nuclear Dude has been putting together better social policy branches than the ones I had had previously. Essentially, they are more representative of the real life governments, rather than a conglomeration of interesting effects. This change will not be present in the next version, but I do want you all to be aware of the happenings behind the scenes.

And for Doc and zspace, I haven't been able to stop thinking about your fast games. I think what happened was that you did not have the (then) Gradual Research mod going, which will explain the fast tech speeds. If you haven't done so already, download V 1.25 (fixed) in the OP and you should be enjoying normal games again. I will take the lack of other complaints to mean that things are going well.

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Ah sounds good.
Heh, I wish I could mod, cos if I could I would help make some of the social policies myself, but alas I can't mod to save my life
Believe me I have tried before... and failed.
But it is great that you are taking up my ideas and I can't wait to see them ingame!

Along with those nice new pictures for the policies, I defiantly look forward to the next patch, and the patch that will contain my policies in them

Keep up the good work, everyone!