Poll: Should I include espionage in my modmod?
- Thread starter Alzara
- Start date
Seon
Not An Evil Liar
Of course you should add espionage, doesn't everyone (wink wink)?
![[to_xp]Gekko](https://civfanatics-data.community.forum/avatars/m/74/74677.jpg?1475248346){kind=avatar}
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
Thunder_Gr
Emperor
I agree with vivictius. Plus, I do not like the way the espionage system works in Civ IV.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
I say you should try to figure out how to split up espionage into a divination and subterfuge system like I suggested a while back, so I can see if it works and steal your work if you getting working right.
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
i agree 100% (yes even regardingthe staling part hehe)
I voted 'what is espionage', because the answer depends entirely on how it is implemented. If the espionage system is the one from BtS with a new paint job, then my vote is absolutely not. If you rework it to be friendlier to the AI and more fitting in the FfH world, and make it fit the feel of your modmod without taking over the development cycle with the inevitable random bugs and AI issues - if you can do that, the I say absolutely. But it might be better to focus on espionage, or let someone else do it and steal it when they get it right.
Broken Hawk
Emperor
What hbar said.
OK just over half the voters said yes, but I can understand the reasoning as to not use normal BtS espionage put forward by many people here... I will have to think some more... feel free to convince me further people lol 
I'm still quite undecided
Al
I'm still quite undecided
Al
I see it like Hbar - someone who knows much about SDK and python and what not should put 100% of his time into a spionage system that's flavourful and goes along well with FFH/FF/Orbis or any modmod to come. I never used espionage in BtS (okay I played maybe 3 BtS games, before FFH 030 came out, but anyway), so I don't see it as something nescessary.
you see at the moment it's like:
- FFH2 officially finished
- FF is worked on
- Orbis is worked on
- Magister Modmod is worked on
- etc.
but no one puts all his efforts only on:
- a new spionage system
- a new culture system (culture is called influence and increases with walls and castles instead of temples)
- more spells
- pie
you can't play 5 modmods at the same time, but all 5 modmods could use an improvement in a certain branche (like espionage) if this wouldn't take their time to ..well.. finish their modmods.
you see at the moment it's like:
- FFH2 officially finished
- FF is worked on
- Orbis is worked on
- Magister Modmod is worked on
- etc.
but no one puts all his efforts only on:
- a new spionage system
- a new culture system (culture is called influence and increases with walls and castles instead of temples)
- more spells
- pie
you can't play 5 modmods at the same time, but all 5 modmods could use an improvement in a certain branche (like espionage) if this wouldn't take their time to ..well.. finish their modmods.
Jabie
Wanted in Monte Carlo...
The passive missions from Espionage are fairly easy. There's a block you need to remove somewhere in the code and it's mostly XML after that. Look up my Rumours thread if you want some pointers on which files to hack.
The active missions are more interesting. You could use the spell system in FfH and then base the costs and success rate on the ratio of Espionage Points between the two nations. Assassin units ought to gain these "spells" and ideally only at the appropriate techs - so no posioning wells til you've research Poisons. On a successful mission, the casting unit is returned to your capital.
Add a few rare events which simulates successful missions (e.g. The groundwater at the well has been corrupted), so that it is not clear whether or not a player has been the victim of espionage, or has just been unlucky. This is more fundamental in multi-player games. Is someone out to get you, or are you just having a run of bad luck?
Using Spells also gives you the option of giving Civ / Religion / Civic only spells. Followers of Esus could have a spell which, when cast in an opponents capital causes them to suffer a -1 diplomatic hit with all nations for 10 turns. The Elohim might get a spell which improved relations. Aristocracy could have a "Royal Visit" spell which gave a Happiness bonus in the affected city - useful if you want to keep your allies productive during a long war.
Try and keep the mechanics of Espionage away from the player. Espionage should not cost any Espionage Points - just gold. However if you fail, then you should lose both EPs and the unit involved. Another suggestion is to replace the Espionage icon with a Crystal Ball icon instead. In addition you could hide the numbers in the bottom right hand corner of the screen and just display two versions of the Crystal ball. If it is lit up, you know more than you're opponent, if it isn't you know less than your opponent.
The active missions are more interesting. You could use the spell system in FfH and then base the costs and success rate on the ratio of Espionage Points between the two nations. Assassin units ought to gain these "spells" and ideally only at the appropriate techs - so no posioning wells til you've research Poisons. On a successful mission, the casting unit is returned to your capital.
Add a few rare events which simulates successful missions (e.g. The groundwater at the well has been corrupted), so that it is not clear whether or not a player has been the victim of espionage, or has just been unlucky. This is more fundamental in multi-player games. Is someone out to get you, or are you just having a run of bad luck?
Using Spells also gives you the option of giving Civ / Religion / Civic only spells. Followers of Esus could have a spell which, when cast in an opponents capital causes them to suffer a -1 diplomatic hit with all nations for 10 turns. The Elohim might get a spell which improved relations. Aristocracy could have a "Royal Visit" spell which gave a Happiness bonus in the affected city - useful if you want to keep your allies productive during a long war.
Try and keep the mechanics of Espionage away from the player. Espionage should not cost any Espionage Points - just gold. However if you fail, then you should lose both EPs and the unit involved. Another suggestion is to replace the Espionage icon with a Crystal Ball icon instead. In addition you could hide the numbers in the bottom right hand corner of the screen and just display two versions of the Crystal ball. If it is lit up, you know more than you're opponent, if it isn't you know less than your opponent.
megamanx06
Caswallan
try VERY annoying. And the only really useful thing the player can do is support a revolt when your army is right outside, pretty much eliminating seige.
But I voted yes just because I think it makes sense.
Some excellent ideas here! I'm thinking along the lines of using raw espionage to allows sight in cities etc, but assassin-esque units to fulfill similar functions to what is discussed above
This is gonna be fun
Al
Seon
Not An Evil Liar
Yay! Expecting some ninja UNITs kiki
The iPod has resumed normality
The iPod has resumed normality
Haha so at least we know it wasn't investing espionage points in trying to poison you (or your well
)Al
Seon
Not An Evil Liar
Strange that you mention posioning, my soup tasted funny that day.
I did vote yes, but I also make it explicitly clear to not use the same system. For instance, having a special unit that could sacrifice itself onto a rival city for permanent viewing, and then maybe give an event that could let the AI remove the presence, with a low probability of event happening, dependent on the crime level methinks.
Also, if spy units, whatever units you use, do not look cool ... dont bother
Well, I guess its ok if whatever lame model is riding a horse ^^
Also, if spy units, whatever units you use, do not look cool ... dont bother
Well, I guess its ok if whatever lame model is riding a horse ^^
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