LENES: That Noisome Silence

Reading thomas.berebug's Orcs, I've realised that they're so different to the Ogyr that they're not even the same species.

If we're going to be arc-welding, then orcs need to be at least biologically, so I'm going to redo the Ogyr backgrounds so that they're different and don't clash so much with thomas.berebug's orcs.

Notably, the spawning is going to go, which I'm sad about but oh well. They'll still be sentient-species eating rhinoceros riding semi-nomads, coz I think that stuff is cool.

Still, there's some stuff I want to keep. LoE, is it alright if the two different species of orcs have very different religions? I kind of want to rewrite the origin story so that it feels like a different variant of the Ma'sool's, but I like the idea of ancestor worship and being possessed by the spirits of what they believe are their ancestors. Is that alright with you LoE?

EDIT: Also, which area Aeordn from in general? The Lore mentions that they are fleeing from Orcs to the West, but since if they're on the continent then the Ma'sool are to the East, implying that they are fleeing from something else. Given I'm the only other Orc around , I figured I'd write that in at some point -

I was thinking that the Varaldn mention the Orcs as an enemy to the West, whereas the Ogyr mention a great war against the Humans that causes them to migrate to their current homeland as part of an oral history (though with less importance than to the Ma'sool, because the Ogyr are nomadic anyway). Thoughts Thlayli, thomas?

Grandkhan, I believe that those will be terrance's orcs that they are fleeing from...
Also, as I said in my background, the Mas'sool clearly are from a different ethnic group than the orcs native to Aresool (You and Terrance.) That being said, if you want to have your orcs interact with in their mythos, or be a splinter of the Mas'sool, feel free, and I'd be happy to work with you on that.

Well, what I wanted to write was a part of the Ogyr mythos that a conflict between two brother deities over who killed their mother. The mythical creator God of the Ogyr wins, forcing the other to flee, after which nothing is heard from again (read: founds the Mas'sool).

The intent is that its a rewriting of the Mas'sool legend from the perspective of the victor - it hints towards an oral history of one particular group of orcs defeating the other and forcing them to flee. The Ogyr, who won, see it as them defeating their angry violent brother. The Mas'sool, who lost, see it as them being driven out of their homeland.

How does that work?

It probably could! You would intend us both to be new arrivals to Aresool? Mas'sool mythos sees what drove them out as a divine thing (probably a volcano) but, I'm sure you could retell it in an interesting way to fit your concept. (Maybe you lived there after the volcano erupted... and were scared culturally in a way that the Mas'sool weren't.)

Edit: I'm basing my language on Maori, BTW

Yeah, that works. The idea is that the oral histories mesh just enough to look related - stuff like chronology and the order of things are normally the last things to go.

Given that my culture is starting literally right next to a volcano (and Terrance is filling the Orc role for thlayli anyway) the Volcano idea works really well. The Ogyr stuck around afterwards, and ended up embracing the volcano as a holy place.

The Mas'sool come from overseas.

Thlayli said:

You must have serious problems with Earth history then.

And TMG's dwarves make more sense in that mountain range and angst has been kind enough to pick another spot, so...

Sorry for challenging you on SO MANY THINGS all at once, LoE, but you know I love you.

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Ok now I'm confused. It was not a mountain range at all. It was Finland.

thomas.berubeg said:

The Mas'sool come from overseas.

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Everywhere's overseas if you get there by boat.

Anyway, I'd rather at least have some inconsistency and ambiguity in oral histories regarding location, plus starting next to a huge volcano with spiritual significance is pretty cool anyway.

Yeah, I'm not sure what spot TMG claimed Thlayli, but angst's first claim was on the marshy delta in the northeast.

Oh, excuse me. I was looking at the circle on that map he posted.

In that case, you're fine.

Yeah that's the circle I placed for the Ultheyn.

It's a big space; there's probably enough room for you and TMG if you take the valley itself and he's somewhere in the mountains.

I wouldn't have any problems with that.

Thlayli, since you said that your people went to the northwest, it is expected that the People of Eledaen elves are located near this region. But they also need to be close to the old Empire, because as you mentioned, Eledaen was one of their main enemies.

So I got these two ideal points for them:



In this orange circle to the left, there is a lake and nearby mountains, and the region is a middle point between the northwest and the central sea. The region has the river and prairies to the Elves of the Light and mountains and woods for the Night Elves. Therefore, it is my preferred position. But if this area has already been chosen by another, the orange circle on the right indicates a second viable option. Since this choice has relevance to other cultures, suggestions on the subject are welcome.

About the elven war against the Empire, I have my suggestions:

Eledaen warred against the Empire because of a religious issue. He believed the Dragon King, Tyrath, was the Lord of Darkness himself, who deceived the people of men, leading them to the path of darkness. In other words, the people of men came to be viewed with suspicion by the elves, or even with hatred, by the most devout. It was the duty of Eledaen to destroy the evil and avenge the great destruction that afflicted his people. (After the Fall of the Tower, Eledaen and many other elves of his people came to believe that the causer of the destruction was the Lord of Darkness).

Another important fact: The Night Elves, under the leadership of Aewen the Wise joined forces with Tyrath because just like Eledaen, Aewen believed that the dragon was the Lord of the Night (Falladan, known as the Lord of Darkness by other elves). Then each elven king fight for what he believes to be his divine cause: Eledaen wanting revenge and justice, and Aewen going to defend his Savior. Meanwhile Caladhros became a powerful wizard, and took part in the war on the side of the Empire.

In some important battle before the destruction of the Empire, Eledaen killed Caladhros in an epic struggle. It is said that Eledaen had become a magician during the war years, so he became fit for a duel with his former King. However the duel weakened Eledaen and forced him to retreat to the capital. From then until the beginning of the NES, he rarely leaves his palace.

Aewen and his people escaped from the destruction, and made peace with the people of Eledaen. So many were the horrors of war, that the Elves of the Light and the Night Elves were living in tension, never returning to coexist as before.


--Later I will write more about Eledaen and Aewen, and their respective kingdoms.

The division into Night Elves and Elves of Light is very cliché... as is the concept of a dragon being a god (tyrnoch from Amalur, Alduin from Skyrim, numerous dragon gods in dungeons and dragons franchise... take your pick son!)

Golden1Knight said:

@ LoE, How many years passed between the end of the empire and the beginning of this NES? Because if there were not many, Eledaen and many other elves will still be alive. However, if many years have passed, let me know and I will give him an interesting death.

--Later I will write more about Eledaen and Aewen, and their respective kingdoms.

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It's supposed to be a mythic past. No one knows how long it's been. Probably more lifetimes than can really be counted.

Jehoshua said:

The division into Night Elves and Elves of Light is very cliché... as is the concept of a dragon being a god (tyrnoch from Amalur, Alduin from Skyrim, numerous dragon gods in dungeons and dragons franchise... take your pick son!)

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This issue has been discussed previously. First, the names are not related to any kind Manichaeism. The Elves of Light do not represent the Good and the Night Elves do not represent Evil. These names originate purely from cultural issues: The Elves of Light were given this name because of their reverence to their Lord of Light (in fact, they are more called People of Eledaen). The Night Elves are so named for their nocturnal habits, because, as I explained earlier, they avoid the sun and prefer the moon and the stars.

That is, although the names may remember something cliché, this case does not apply.

About the dragon, I see you are confused. The Creator of the Elves is not a dragon, but Galladan, who retired to the ends of the Universe. In his place, stayed his children Atalladan (Lord of Light) and Falladan (Lord of the Night, or Lord of Darkness, to the other elves). In short, the elves saw in Tyrath the incarnation of Falladan. And remember that each Elven people sees Falladan in a different way.

So no Dragon God.

I'm not confused at all and know very well that the gods are not dragons. My gripe about cliché dragon gods is solely in applying divinity (elves seeing Tyrath as an incarnation of Falladan) to the dragon in question, not in their generic conception of the deific archetype. Also the cultural content of the elves is not my concern, purely the naming schema which is obscenely overdone in varying iterations (moriquendi/calaquendi: Night elves/High elves, and so on and so forth ad infinitum) irrespective of what the described peoples are actually like (Moriquendi aren't evil for example, neither are Night Elves from the warcraft thing).

Beyond these minor gripes I have little problem with your narrative proposition.

Claiming the islands West of the Dacian Gnomes, story to come

@Thlayli, well these are all excellent points and I accept them on their merit and all that, but it looks like for the moment these issues have resolved themselves.

@Grandkhan, thanks. I was meaning to talk to you in person via #nes for purposes of expediency about the issues of your orcs and other orcs confirming to the same basic biology (sexual reproduction, etc) but other than that, I have no problem with significant degrees of cultural differentiation.

EDIT: @Golden1Knight, I am going to say at least 500 years. For purposes of the story and because we are so early along in the history of the world, you can assume Eledaen and other important figures are still alive if for some reason they have not been killed in the intervening period.