Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

This question is from only my 2nd game of Civ4, so noob question alert!

Reluctant Holy City?

I founded Islam at the end of a war, having been following Hinduism till then. The founding happened randomly in a really bizarre and distant city, which isn't productive or useful at all really. That was some 200 years ago (on Marathon setting) and still I have had no prophet to build the Islamic Holy Shrine.

Why not? Do you only get the prophets from employing priest specialists and stacking up the Great People points?

My religion rocks in the extreme, is now the more influential than any other, but I've got no Holy City for it, nowhere it can call home

I founded Islam at the end of a war, having been following Hinduism till then. The founding happened randomly in a really bizarre and distant city, which isn't productive or useful at all really. That was some 200 years ago (on Marathon setting) and still I have had no prophet to build the Islamic Holy Shrine.

Why not? Do you only get the prophets from employing priest specialists and stacking up the Great People points?

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Great people are only produce by great people points, whether from wonders or from specialists. What type of great person you'll get may be unpredictable, but it's very easy to predict when you'll get a great person from the GPP production rates of your cities, and the next GP threshold. (There are also four techs that each give a free great person, but none of them give a great prophet). If you particularly need a great prophet, just stack up a load of priest specialists in whichever city is your grerat person farm, and you'll have a high chance of getting a great prophet (if things like wonders which favour other types of great person are present you may get a different type of great person).

The founding happened randomly in a really bizarre and distant city, which isn't productive or useful at all really.

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Although the religion founding system is loosely random, it is biased towards cities with lower culture. Hence it is more likely to be founded in a very new and poor city.

Looks like I'll have to get over my Engineer and Scientist fetish then.

Thanks a lot for the solid and speedy info.

Indeed. Engineers and Scientists are great, but if you have a really widespread religion then it's worth the commercial benefit of a Great Prophet sometimes. Be careful not to get too obsessed with "Shrine-building" though... religions which are not very popular around the world (only a few cities) are generally not worth wasting a Great Prophet on.

a4phantom said:

Since a citizen specialist only gives you a hammer, that's a very bad deal since almost any tile should give you more, but other specialists, especially engineers, can be valuable and they are essential to the rapid production of Great People.

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There's some few cases in which citizens are valuable though... for instance, when you're in Mercentalism (and ideally Representation) and have the Sistine Chapel, the citizens can be very valuable specialists, especially in newer cities which don't yet have any buildings to allow other types of specialists.

But yes, generally citizens are pretty awful.

What is a good year for a culture win?

Lord Parkin said:

Indeed. Engineers and Scientists are great, but if you have a really widespread religion then it's worth the commercial benefit of a Great Prophet sometimes. Be careful not to get too obsessed with "Shrine-building" though... religions which are not very popular around the world (only a few cities) are generally not worth wasting a Great Prophet on.

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I agree completely. As a recovering victim of the newby obsession with founding holy cities and shrines, I know once you have a HC it seems crucial to get a shrine up ASAP, but unless Islam comes along so late in the game that it's unlikely to spread naturally (without missionaries to cities with no prior religion). If Rambuchan is already doing well with his religion, he's got little to gain by converting to Islam, therefore little to gain by spreading it, therefore little to gain by building the Muslim shrine. Consider the Muslim holy city to just be getting a nice culture bonus as is and enjoy those Scientists and Engineers.

Lord Parkin said:

There's some few cases in which citizens are valuable though... for instance, when you're in Mercentalism (and ideally Representation) and have the Sistine Chapel, the citizens can be very valuable specialists, especially in newer cities which don't yet have any buildings to allow other types of specialists.

But yes, generally citizens are pretty awful.

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I've never used Mercantilism, but doesn't it enable limitless merchants, scientists and artists? Aren't those all more productive ways to gain the Sistine and Representation bonuses per/specialist?

azzaman333 said:

What is a good year for a culture win?

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Very much depends on difficulty level, and a few other factors. Probably worth having a look at the GOTM results page If you can find one of a silmilar level to what you are playing it shoudl give you a good idea.

a4phantom said:

I agree completely. As a recovering victim of the newby obsession with founding holy cities and shrines, I know once you have a HC it seems crucial to get a shrine up ASAP, but unless Islam comes along so late in the game that it's unlikely to spread naturally (without missionaries to cities with no prior religion). If Rambuchan is already doing well with his religion, he's got little to gain by converting to Islam, therefore little to gain by spreading it, therefore little to gain by building the Muslim shrine. Consider the Muslim holy city to just be getting a nice culture bonus as is and enjoy those Scientists and Engineers.

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I might be suffering newbie shrine syndrome too

But, it seems a good illness to suffer from. Here's my thinking on founding and spreading religions, please let me know if it's misguided.

Controlling shrines of major religions is good income for starters. Eg. Islam is now of 23% global influence and my state religion in this game. There must be a good 30-40 cities with Islamic Temples in them around the world (not being harvested by the absent Islamic shrine). I can't get 30-40 gpt out of an AI trade... I've also conquered the Buddhist Shrine and am spreading that fast. That one building alone has gone from 13gpt when I captured it and is up to 20gpt, at only 9% influence. It pays. And will pay much more.

Also, founding and spreading multiple religions is a crucial cultural boost as well as a scientific boost early (multiple monasteries stack research up nicely).

Or am I being a noob here too?

Rambuchan said:

I might be suffering newbie shrine syndrome too

But, it seems a good illness to suffer from. Here's my thinking on founding and spreading religions, please let me know if it's misguided.

Controlling shrines of major religions is good income for starters. Eg. Islam is now of 23% global influence and my state religion in this game. There must be a good 30-40 cities with Islamic Temples in them around the world (not being harvested by the absent Islamic shrine). I can't get 30-40 gpt out of an AI trade... I've also conquered the Buddhist Shrine and am spreading that fast. That one building alone has gone from 13gpt when I captured it and is up to 20gpt, at only 9% influence. It pays. And will pay much more.

Also, founding and spreading multiple religions is a crucial cultural boost as well as a scientific boost early (multiple monasteries stack research up nicely).

Or am I being a noob here too?

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No, or if you are you're doing a good job of it. Holy cities and shrines are very nice to have, and it sounds like you're using them well. In addition, you're going to have to discover mysticism, polytheism, philosophy and code of laws anyway, so if you can be first and get the holy city why not? Besides, it's the only way to be certain that you'll have a religion (you get +1 happiness in every city with your state religion) and temples in your cities when they get too big to be happy on their own.

The problems is when it becomes a huge focus, i.e. directing all your early scientific research towards founding as many religions as you can while neglecting technologies like Agriculture, Animal Husbandry, Bronze and Iron Working, etc. From your original description it sounded to me (I'm working Katrina recovery and very tired) like Islam existed only in one backwards city of yours. If you've spread it enough that 23% of cities have it, then you're doing very well and that shrine was a great investment.

Another advantage to founding religions is diplomacy, IE it gives you some say in which religions spread. If I have Hinduism, Judaism and Christianity for example, and my empire is Hindu I can reduce the spread of J&C by building the Hindu shrine and only sending Hindu missionaries to my neighbors. This will help form a Hindu bloc in my neighborhood, and keep my neighbors friendly to me. Of course I will still spread Judaism and Christianity to all my cities (after Hinduism) for the cultural and scientific and happiness boosts you mentioned from temples and monestaries and eventually Free Religion.

Alrighty, maybe these has been asked maybe not after pages of looking and not finding the answer I'm going to ask, so forgive me if it's been asked already.
I called myself reading the manuals and guides but does anyone have a basic list of buildings for a Military, Commerce, etc city try to build the following in those .... (Including GP buildings and Wonders if you can)
I know you want an Academy from a GP and Epics in say a military city what other would you have in a given type city?

If the info is needed I play mainly at Nobel or +/- one level and I play as Rome 90% of the time on a huge map. I do not call myself an expert player I just enjoy the game.

Thanks in advance for your help.

If you play at Noble I bet you have an understanding of the game that'll suit you better for this than any list. Although I don't know why you'd want Academy in a specifically 'military city', unless you mean West Point; there you should have barracks, forge, Heroic Epic and if you can West Point (one city with Heroic Epic and West point, plus of course barracks and forge, will create super units super quick, remember that each city can only hold two National Wonders so if you plan on building West Point you might want to build Heroic Epic in a city that won't get another Nat' Wonder). Although all productive cities should get a barracks and forge anyway. Great Scientists should build Academies in your science producing cities starting at the best and working down.

a4phantom said:

If you play at Noble I bet you have an understanding of the game that'll suit you better for this than any list. Although I don't know why you'd want Academy in a specifically 'military city', unless you mean West Point; there you should have barracks, forge, Heroic Epic and if you can West Point (one city with Heroic Epic and West point, plus of course barracks and forge, will create super units super quick, remember that each city can only hold two National Wonders so if you plan on building West Point you might want to build Heroic Epic in a city that won't get another Nat' Wonder). Although all productive cities should get a barracks and forge anyway. Great Scientists should build Academies in your science producing cities starting at the best and working down.

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I've been playing since Civ 1 on and off but perhaps it's the MOD I'm playing "CivMore" that has Great Generals" that can build Military Academies other than West Point I'm still a bit new to Civ 4 and it is a little different game than the ones before. Still the same but different.
As to where I asked the question wasn't sure where to post it as it's not a noobe question but it's not a topic all it's own either.

Thanks

Leatherneck said:

I've been playing since Civ 1 on and off but perhaps it's the MOD I'm playing "CivMore" that has Great Generals" that can build Military Academies other than West Point I'm still a bit new to Civ 4 and it is a little different game than the ones before. Still the same but different.
As to where I asked the question wasn't sure where to post it as it's not a noobe question but it's not a topic all it's own either.

Thanks

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You can ask any question here and the worst (maybe best) thing that'll happen is to be redirected to another thread with complete answers. Although when asking questions it's best to mention that you're using a mod.

not really related to anything but what does "my 2 cents mean"

"My thoughts", "my opinions", "my interpretation of things"... etc.

Lord Parkin said:

"My thoughts", "my opinions", "my interpretation of things"... etc.

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Inflation it's 5 cents now.

s.c.dude said:

not really related to anything but what does "my 2 cents mean"

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Can I ask how old you are? I don't mean that as an insult at all, I'm just intrigued by how the language changes.

a4phantom said:

Can I ask how old you are? I don't mean that as an insult at all, I'm just intrigued by how the language changes.

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Just click on his profile (12)

azzaman333 said:

Just click on his profile (12)

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12!! I have underware older than that and childern too. LOL Then again when I was 12 I didn't know what "LOL" meant ... but nor did anybody else.

Good to see a game that have such wide appeal to so many age groups.

Leatherneck said:

12!! I have underware older than that and childern too. LOL Then again when I was 12 I didn't know what "LOL" meant ... but nor did anybody else.

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Maybe he's not from an English speaking country.