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Cultural Diversity
- Thread starter JFD
- Start date
janboruta
Artistriarch
Thanks for the link, Krajzen! Could prove to be useful when making civ icons. But I guess sticking to vanilla and Tomatekh's religious symbols will be the easiest and fastest way to go - so much work saved, plus they are already very distinct 
TPangolin
Just the worst person
I'm not a fan of laurels for Australia/Canada/America and believe that they should remain in a seperate grouping to Latin America on account of being culturally distinct from each other.. Just my two cents.
janboruta
Artistriarch
And I'm not a fan of Russian Imperial Crown for Poland when I have the 19th and 20th centuries in mind, but somehow I still made it 
JFD
Kathigitarkh
And I'm not a fan of Russian Imperial Crown for Poland when I have the 19th and 20th centuries in mind, but somehow I still made it
Good man.
In terms of icons... I have founds something cool. Basically there are so nice icons here that even such artistically disabled man as me could do something acceptable from this site - of course I am pretty sure janboruta alone can create 10x more wonderful thingsbut still, maybe something here can be useful? Also, you Civilisation Modders can find few interesting things here in terms of flag/icons
Website with thousands of free high quality vector downloadable silhoulettes:
http://all-silhouettes.com/
I can see this coming in handy. Thanks.
TPangolin
Just the worst person
I was thinking recently that it might be a good idea to remove the Terrace Farm UI from the Inca and give them another unique attribute (perhaps poached from the third unique component thread).
The reason I say this is that you could potentially to save space - group in China with Philippines, Vietnam, Burma and Indonesia and give them the ability to build Terrace Farms since historically all of these countries utilize this method to harvest rice and such.
The reason I say this is that you could potentially to save space - group in China with Philippines, Vietnam, Burma and Indonesia and give them the ability to build Terrace Farms since historically all of these countries utilize this method to harvest rice and such.
JFD
Kathigitarkh
Yeah, I really don't want to start changing around pieces from the vanilla game. Plus, this would make the mod unusable for anyone who didn't buy the Inca DLC.
I'm not worried about space. I'm worried only about trying to give each group a distinct enough feel.
I'm not worried about space. I'm worried only about trying to give each group a distinct enough feel.
TPangolin
Just the worst person
But my point is that all of those countries (around 10 civs in-game) utilize Rice Terrace farming as opposed to just the Inca
JFD
Kathigitarkh
And every European civ (and even the Ottomans I think) used the Ship-of-the-Line at one point in their navy (not to mention the Privateer, the Longbow, etc.), but I'm not about to pull those out of their civs.
senshidenshi
Switched the Red and Blue channels
I have to agree with TPangs here. As much as I love the Terrace Farm, it IS a much more East Asian thing than Inca culturally, found from Bali to China and pretty much everything in between. Also, there are UNESCO sites in the Philippines due to the rice terraces there.
I think the only reason the Inca got the UI is because they did have them, used them, and the Incas were based around hills as it was.
I think the only reason the Inca got the UI is because they did have them, used them, and the Incas were based around hills as it was.
JFD
Kathigitarkh
Sigh...
senshidenshi
Switched the Red and Blue channels
JFD
Kathigitarkh
No. Where did you get that idea? Its a mod designed to replicate cultural diversity in the most viable game terms as possible. The Terrace Farm point is no stronger than my point about certain UUs, and other UIs. Polders are not exclusive to the Netherlands, for instance. They exist from Canada to Japan. So TPangolin's premise falls flat for implement-ability.
senshidenshi
Switched the Red and Blue channels
JFD
Kathigitarkh
I'll budge if there's a convincing argument. Tell me, why should I take out an existing UI and give it to an as yet undetermined group with an unspecific gameplay focus?
TPangolin
Just the worst person
I'm sorry for brainstorming I guess? I just thought I could help.
[BNW] [WIP] Cultural Diversity
Regarding Terrace Farms though, I know I'm not going to change your mind, but I just thought that since Rice Terraces are so ingrained in the Eastern Asian culture, that it might be a good idea for them to utilize something that is already in the game. As Senshi said, the Banaue Rice Terraces have been designated a UNESCO world heritage site.
I think that Terrace farms are more synonymous with East Asia (Nepal, Vietnam, Laos, Philippines, China, Indonesia which would be nice to replicate in-game), than it would be with the Inca. Such Terraces have been used for millenia and continue to be used in a portion of the world that has to feed millions of mouths and does so quite effectively with this method. 5/7 of the examples listed on the Wiki Page for Terrace Farms are Asian.
Regarding Polders. No, they aren't exclusive to Netherlands - but they are frequently associated with them (as are terraces to East Asia) as specified in their Wiki page. It's like how Kangaroos, Wallabies, Cassowaries and Echidnas are frequently associated with Australia, when they are also found in Papua New Guinea.
Actually, you make a good point regarding the SotL's. It's another example of a concept used by lots of civs around the region that could be appropriated for a wider use. Scotland Yard could also blend well with England's spy theme.
I'm not sure it falls flat as much as you want it to. I mean, the idea does have some merit to it and all I'm trying to do is help as opposed to rush my ideas forcefully into something.
[BNW] [WIP] Cultural Diversity
Regarding Terrace Farms though, I know I'm not going to change your mind, but I just thought that since Rice Terraces are so ingrained in the Eastern Asian culture, that it might be a good idea for them to utilize something that is already in the game. As Senshi said, the Banaue Rice Terraces have been designated a UNESCO world heritage site.
I think that Terrace farms are more synonymous with East Asia (Nepal, Vietnam, Laos, Philippines, China, Indonesia which would be nice to replicate in-game), than it would be with the Inca. Such Terraces have been used for millenia and continue to be used in a portion of the world that has to feed millions of mouths and does so quite effectively with this method. 5/7 of the examples listed on the Wiki Page for Terrace Farms are Asian.
Regarding Polders. No, they aren't exclusive to Netherlands - but they are frequently associated with them (as are terraces to East Asia) as specified in their Wiki page. It's like how Kangaroos, Wallabies, Cassowaries and Echidnas are frequently associated with Australia, when they are also found in Papua New Guinea.
Actually, you make a good point regarding the SotL's. It's another example of a concept used by lots of civs around the region that could be appropriated for a wider use. Scotland Yard could also blend well with England's spy theme.
I'm not sure it falls flat as much as you want it to. I mean, the idea does have some merit to it and all I'm trying to do is help as opposed to rush my ideas forcefully into something.
JFD
Kathigitarkh
Don't take my rebuttal personally. You are helping.
That says nothing of its intent. It is a statement of fact that this mod is about cultural diversity. I'm not expressing any opinion on cultural diversity itself.
You say that like its purely a cultural suggestion. Its not. I have to consider game mechanics and compatibility with users. The Inca were designed for a specific purpose and play-style and I'm not going to presume that I should break that. In addition, I haven't determined the focus of South-East Asian civs yet. They may have nothing to do with growth, or food, or anything of the sort. Thus, at this stage, my objection purely comes from the aversion to moving around uniques and breaking the way the Inca play (which happens to be one of my favourite civs, too). If I decide that South-East Asia should have a food focus, then I'll certainly reconsider the idea and assess the need appropriately. In fact, the Banaue Rice Terraces was already a high candidate for a South-East Asian wonder.
Rushing ideas can be just as helpful to me as thought out ones.
That's true, but England's Spy focus is already a bit shallow, and frankly quite tacky. At any rate, I don't necessarily believe any existing uniques need to be moved around at this point.
janboruta
Artistriarch
I believe this is a mod which focuses on adding stuff and not overhauling it. When you take one piece and move it around you will have to move them all to remain consistent. This might be an idea for the future, but it adds a bit too much brainstorming and work for now - while the mod has just been started. I guess you just want to go into detail too much, something this mod doesn't do yet.
Also, I am not a fan of moving the Uniques that are already established within a civ - I would focus more on thinking about additional special cultural uniques, which can easily cover your ideas. I'm with Leugi here about the Rice Farm, which would be the best solution to grant Oriental civs the food boost.
Also, I am not a fan of moving the Uniques that are already established within a civ - I would focus more on thinking about additional special cultural uniques, which can easily cover your ideas. I'm with Leugi here about the Rice Farm, which would be the best solution to grant Oriental civs the food boost.
I'd only like to point out that Rice Terraces and Andean Terrace Farms are also different technologies intended for a bit different functions. (Hell, Rice Terraces look different too; andean terraces had a more bulky look with their "walls", while rice terraces are pretty much carved looking more natural)
Rice Terraces are actually a system for receiving and maximizing the use of the rain that falls up to the rainforests in the area; so the irrigation system also managed to make use of an already near fertile land.
Andean Terraces on the other hand, had to deal with a different irrigation because some of the mountains they were stablished at were more dry and a bit far from the Rainforests; hence they required aqueduct systems more than only irrigation (like Puquios).
If you want to talk about ammount of civs that used them... well there's the fact that yeah, many Asian civilizations used Rice Terraces; but then pretty much all Andean Civilizations used Terrace Farms for potatoes and maize; the Nazca did, Wari did (and these ones started to use it massively), Tiwanaku did, Inca did(and these ones inherited the massive use from the Wari), Aymara did, Uru-Chipaya did, Kallowaya did, etc... Its just that we were discovered later
The worst part is of course that both technologies were developed independently too... IMO, one could easily even make the Asian group have Rice Terraces without the need of removing it from the Inca; I don't see why to "move" the thing and remove it from a Civ that truly works well and synergically already. If you worry about overlapping, the Rice Terraces could (and should) have different functions, giving a rice resource. (you could even rename them; the common name for Andean Terraces is Andenes)
TLDR; one can add Rice Terraces without removing the Incan Terrace farms.
Rice Terraces are actually a system for receiving and maximizing the use of the rain that falls up to the rainforests in the area; so the irrigation system also managed to make use of an already near fertile land.
Andean Terraces on the other hand, had to deal with a different irrigation because some of the mountains they were stablished at were more dry and a bit far from the Rainforests; hence they required aqueduct systems more than only irrigation (like Puquios).
If you want to talk about ammount of civs that used them... well there's the fact that yeah, many Asian civilizations used Rice Terraces; but then pretty much all Andean Civilizations used Terrace Farms for potatoes and maize; the Nazca did, Wari did (and these ones started to use it massively), Tiwanaku did, Inca did(and these ones inherited the massive use from the Wari), Aymara did, Uru-Chipaya did, Kallowaya did, etc... Its just that we were discovered later
The worst part is of course that both technologies were developed independently too... IMO, one could easily even make the Asian group have Rice Terraces without the need of removing it from the Inca; I don't see why to "move" the thing and remove it from a Civ that truly works well and synergically already. If you worry about overlapping, the Rice Terraces could (and should) have different functions, giving a rice resource. (you could even rename them; the common name for Andean Terraces is Andenes)
TLDR; one can add Rice Terraces without removing the Incan Terrace farms.