SGOTM 09 - Murky Waters

My tests show that TW next doesn't match up well with settling the northern fish. The saved turn in settling is worth almost nothing in return for many turns lost in getting the academy. Furthermore, if we decide to settle south, I'm assuming (not having tested) that we'd want a second worker before the settler. This leads me to believe that AH-wtg-TW is probably the best deal. This works nicely because wkr1-warrior(4t) is one turn after AH and it's the end of my turnset. Then we can decide whether to build a settler or a worker, depending on what we know about the map, including any horses.

I tested without making the first road to save the fish settler a turn, getting the 2 windmills 2t earlier. This worked better. CS sling in 1160BC, 3 wkrs, 3rd settler and plenty of roads down south.
 
LowtherCastle said:
My tests show that TW next doesn't match up well with settling the northern fish. The saved turn in settling is worth almost nothing in return for many turns lost in getting the academy. Furthermore, if we decide to settle south, I'm assuming (not having tested) that we'd want a second worker before the settler. This leads me to believe that AH-wtg-TW is probably the best deal. This works nicely because wkr1-warrior(4t) is one turn after AH and it's the end of my turnset. Then we can decide whether to build a settler or a worker, depending on what we know about the map, including any horses.
Click to expand...

LC, the peanut gallery have had enough opportunity to provide feedback. Do what you consider is the best, and go on and play. Unless we speed things up, we will not finish in time for an award anyway :cry:
 
Erkon said:
LC, the peanut gallerey have had enough opportunity to provide feedback. Do what you consider is the best, and go on and play. Unless we speed things up, we will not finish in time for an award anyway :cry:
Click to expand...
I don't have a clue what's best. I'm counting on klarius to spend 2 days per turnset to get us in under the deadline... :D

Okay, with the 40% discount, pottery costs 57 base beakers , AH, 71. Pottery save about a turn, but doesn't really give us anything we're going to use yet (I guess). Knowing where any horses are can make a difference in our settling choices and give us a nice hammer boost. Plus, all those plains tiles talk horses, for what it's worth. If there are multiple horse tiles together, that would be something to consider. Delaying TW till after AH is no problem and we still have the option of beelining wtg. That's what I'll do unless anyone can convince me otherwise (won't take much... ;)).
 
LowtherCastle said:
My tests show that TW next doesn't match up well with settling the northern fish. The saved turn in settling is worth almost nothing in return for many turns lost in getting the academy. Furthermore, if we decide to settle south, I'm assuming (not having tested) that we'd want a second worker before the settler. This leads me to believe that AH-wtg-TW is probably the best deal. This works nicely because wkr1-warrior(4t) is one turn after AH and it's the end of my turnset. Then we can decide whether to build a settler or a worker, depending on what we know about the map, including any horses.

I tested without making the first road to save the fish settler a turn, getting the 2 windmills 2t earlier. This worked better. CS sling in 1160BC, 3 wkrs, 3rd settler and plenty of roads down south.
Click to expand...

This sounds good to me.
 
PPP updated yet again. Changes in orange. I'll be playing as soon as I get access. Soon, hopefully. Still waiting to get talked out of AH... :crazyeye: There better be lots of horses on those plains.
 
PPP looks good. Scout can perhaps go south a bit and explore wonder-land?

Settler och worker? Settler for north city, worker for south city?
 
I'll stop on T14 at the latest to decide about the settler or worker.

EDIT: Continuing... Played to T14. Turnset updated. Do we research The Wheel next or Writing? I looks like we'll want to settle a couple of cities south of the mountains and eventually pay a visit to the barbs to see if they have a nice spot.

ZPV or someone, could you check to see how far the land extends to the SE? My impression is that it goes just a couple tiles further.

I'd like to play the last turn tonight or tomorrow morning, if possible.

EDIT: Screenshot attached.
 
Hmm, so we have at least two cities that can start building wb (i.e. does not need worker). That's good news, yes?

EDIT: Screen shot please! :D
 
I suggest that you follow the coastline south (forest). We want to reveal all sea resources to plan our cities.

If we choose The Wheel, then we need one worker who build the roads (protected by warrior) => build worker at pop2

If we choose Writing, we can build a settler => build settler at pop2.
 
That settles it! :lol:

No extra starting techs for the barbs, says Gyathaar. At most three AIs are coastal, so they won't prioritize Sailing. So barbs shouldn't spwn galleys for a long time. On the other hand, those plains to our west are going to treat us to wave after wave of barbs once they discover us, even without raging barbs. And if we REX, then they'll starte entering cities all the sooner...
 
We should target Writing. To save one turn on settling, we need 5 worker turns, which means we need a worker before the settler, which delays the settler 5 turns i.e. total 4 turn delay of next city.

LC, hurry before someone else contradict me :lol:

Hmm, if we settle south, we should perhaps complete the warrior first to guard against animals? This is not needed if we settle north (which would be a worker producer, and cottage grower) which is a mediocre long term city, but a good short term city.

Settle south also means we need another warrior in capital to enable us to grow.

So how about building two settlers, two warriors (including the one we already have), one worker and the library, then the oracle? That would be possible without delaying the Oracle too much?
 
Yes I want writing too.

Max 2 early settlers - fish N and something S. Is anybody else considering settling on the cow? Or is that too crazy?
 
Cow city is very strong, and can support 12 cottages (cottage on wine).

Rise city (on peninsula to reach fish) can run 6 cottages, with another city north of cow running 7-8 cottages.

The cow city can chop all nine forest, so it's not a problem that there's no production (and we can whip stuff as well together with working plains-forest for 2 hammers).

Not at all crazy. I like I like.
 
LowtherCastle said:
ZPV or someone, could you check to see how far the land extends to the SE? My impression is that it goes just a couple tiles further.
Click to expand...
I think, if you go directly SE, you will end up in the sea after a couple of tiles. If you go further south, the land extends further; I can't tell how far without a systematic survey.

I'm not entirely sure that "Florida" is actually a peninsula. The water 3S of the scout is a fresh water lake.
 
Now that we haven't done TW first, we should do writing.
Build settler at size 2 until second corn comes online, grow in 2 then MM (using lake when needed) to coincide settler and writing and maximize overflow into library.
We still will have no warrior, so only settling option is north.
 
ZPV said:
I think, if you go directly SE, you will end up in the sea after a couple of tiles. If you go further south, the land extends further; I can't tell how far without a systematic survey.

I'm not entirely sure that "Florida" is actually a peninsula. The water 3S of the scout is a fresh water lake.
Click to expand...

There is one other reason why following the coast line is a good idea: the possibility to spot overseas AIs. Then there's smaller risk that the scout is ambushed from animals.

I've tried the following with LC's save:

Worker: farm, farm, windmill, windmill, preserves
Build: partial warrior, settler at pop2, complete warrior, settler at pop3,

Fish city up north 2560 BC.
Start library T29 (2260 BC) when second settler is completed.

It works well with Fish city to work corn, and that city can produce a worker every 4 turns working fish and corn. Murkopolis doesn't really need both corn.

T31 - Fish city pop2, Murky pop4.

The academy is late (1480 BC) which means that the research to mathematics is late. Oracle built 1060 BC (T49), CS learned 1000 BC (T50). And this is without teching The Wheel. Somehow we need the Academy earlier if we should get The Wheel early, but that delays the second settler.

I definitely support early first settler, so I suggest settler at pop2 with writing. It's settled then, LC? :D

Crosspost with klarius: I think what klarius suggest would solve my problem :goodjob: (library before second settler)
 
Okay. There's still the question of the scout. It's clear to me that Gyathaar's outraging barbs solution is to give us a zillion tiles of useless plains, without hills, so there's no economical way of defogging them. So should we just continue to scout the perimeter? Or should I double back immediately, cutting a swath through the heartland, so we can also find out about the other 3 possible tiles for a marble FC?

xpost
 
LowtherCastle said:
Okay. There's still the question of the scout. It's clear to me that Gyathaar's outraging barbs solution is to give us a zillion tiles of useless plains, without hills, so there's no economical way of defogging them. So should we just continue to scout the perimeter? Or should I double back immediately, cutting a swath through the heartland, so we can also find out about the other 3 possible tiles for a marble FC?

xpost
Click to expand...
Continue along the coast. Marble will enter our borders anyway ~t50-60 when Athens reaches 250 culture.
We can let the 15 horse tiles hidden in those plains scare away any barbs. ;)
 
Got it. Nice Play, LC!
I'll put a draft PPP in place later today, to start discussion.
 
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