Barbarians

I realised my misinterpretation PL. :)

I still think the appearanceProbability is the tag you need:
for barrows this is 40, while for the dens it is 0.
 
When I play Warhammer Online, most of the barbarians are from the opposite race of what you play, so if you want, you can make a system where the barbarians can use any units under a universal age, and certain units that are in your race would not pillage your lands... for example, I am Chaos, and all Chaos barbarians won't pillage my lands however they could pillage other people's land cause they are not chaos. The over all barbarians from the games are animals, cultists, spiders, sprites, skeletons, banshees, spirit hosts, wild sqaids... etc.
 
Well some of the Uprisings are alignment or religion specific, so the crusading knights will prefer to target Chaotic civs, etc. With the Civ4 system though it's not possible to actually subdivide the "Barbarian" forces to any great degree.
 
Hey party people.

I like the idea in OP of battles spawning something that could turn into an undead spawn. Warhammer people are not scared enough, they need more undead in their diet. How about if battles gave a small chance of spawning a Famous Battlefield (removable with proper spells?) similar to graveyards in FFH2 where you can gain extra undead summons if cast on the same tile.

How about faction specific/significant Battlefields? Would it be easy in python to add this? (along with minor bonuses to the faction who *owns* the battlefield?
 
i think a Famous Battlefields type mechanic would be a cool and flavourful event, but i wouldnt make it anything more than an event.

and id just make them generic. an elf skeleton is much the same as an orc skeleton when under the command of a necromancer.
 
I think there is already an event like this that Orlanth created that does something similar based on the city ruins feature (what gets left after you raze a city).

How would you tie an event to a battle though?
 
Hey party people.
woop woop [party]:banana:

I think there is already an event like this that Orlanth created that does something similar based on the city ruins feature (what gets left after you raze a city).
Yes I'm glad that eventually triggered correctly! I can't exactly remember all my Events anymore :crazyeye: but I also coded one where an exploring unit could uncover an ancient battlefield (Plain of Bones) and search through it receiving an improved weapons promotion.

and id just make them generic. an elf skeleton is much the same as an orc skeleton when under the command of a necromancer.
That's a very cool mechanic deadliver; tho I agree with P_L that it would be better kept generic. I think it could be done via python ondeath check with a very small (1%?) chance to spawn the Plain of Bones feature. Greenskins could get a modest +yield from Plain of Bones from scavenging, and Necromancers could have an autocast spell/ability that removes nearby Plain of Bones and gains a free skeleton horde.
 
Spawning plain of bones could get very frustrating when it happens in the BFC of your cities.
Why should my terrain get permanently messed with from barbarians throwing themselves uselessly against my city defenses?
 
Good point; without changing base Terrain type could be an explorable Improvement as P_L mentioned, removable after exploring with a small chance of finding some loot vs being attacked by undead (or raising them as minions with Necromancy). Greenskins could get some extra yield from it, making them happy to leave some bonefields lying around from their past smashin' to pick through. :p

Alternately, could be a terrain Feature clearable by Workers as well as the methods above.
 
Good stuff so far. What do you guys think about having it provide combat bonuses to nearby units Odio style?

Would be even cooler if we could get a name generator for the ruins going on this after we get the mod up and running.
 
Why should you get a bonus just by fighting near a battlefield?

I'm not convinced this would be a good feature, but I'd be willing to give it a go.
 
Why should you get a bonus just by fighting near a battlefield?
Pure inspiration Ahriman. Fighting on the same ground again and again, probably against the same foe.


I'm not convinced this would be a good feature, but I'd be willing to give it a go.
Lol I bet this particular list of yours is getting long :)
 
My job is to prevent feature creep.

Bonuses/mechanics like this could be really confusing for new players. What is this bonus coming from? What is causing this terrain change?

The flavor bonus to me seems small relative to the clutter cost.
 
My job is to prevent feature creep.

Bonuses/mechanics like this could be really confusing for new players. What is this bonus coming from? What is causing this terrain change?

The flavor bonus to me seems small relative to the clutter cost.

What about making it a morale bonus?
 
I don't think combat bonusses would be a good idea for battlefields.
negative city happiness and possible undead spawning (ghouls mostly) would be logical.
illegal scavengers could spawn as well as lowlevel (-1tier) barbarian foot meleetroops.

as for looting/scavenging by units,
XP- I think success % inversely related to unitlevel doing the search.
Equipment - small chance, but not likely. Equipment is best handled as seperate drops, (as it currently is IIRC).
money/loot- a good chance that there will be loot that can be sold for a small sum of gold like.
In short similar to the goodyhut, but a bit different. No exploration for example.
BUT how different would this be from the explore dungeon (etc) feature?
 
Several questions which would need to be answered before we can even really discuss this sensibly.

1. What is the design goal of this feature? To make monsters to fight, like the uprisings?

2. Is the battlefield a terrain type, improvement or feature? All of these are problematic. If its a terrain type, you've messed tile yields. If its an improvement, then you've wiped existing improvements (including cottages that took a long time to grow). If its a feature then you've wiped flood plains, forests and shifting sands.

3. Is the battlefield supposed to be something you want to have around, or something you don't want to have around?
Does it provide bonuses or penalties? Or both?

4. How would these bonuses/penalties be communicated to the player?

5. How would you get rid of the tile - by pillage, or exploration?
How would the AI manage it?

6. If you want to get rid of it immediately, then you can't easily make it spawn undead or other things since it isn't around for very long.

Probably the simplest implementation of somethnig here woudl be to have an event that can spawn some undead troops after a battle. No need for creating an actual battlefield.
But then, we basically already have undead spawning uprising events - how would this be different?
 
So, this may have been addressed before...(I didn't feel like reading 3 pages)...But I've noticed that while I, playing as the DEs and with the highest score, only have Ancient Cavalry, the Barbs have a unit or 2 of Knights of the Blazing Sun running around. No other civ has even researched Tournaments. Another unit that no else has the researched the tech for or has built is Halberdiers, in this case Skeleton Halberdiers via the Rogue Necromancer event. My point is that the Barbs might need to be scaled down to fit what ever other civ has researched.
Normally, Barbs are actually below the tech level of every other civ. I can understand if Chaos got some particularly nasty surprises. And I can live with the Skeleton Halberdiers attached to the Rogue Necromancer event. What I can't understand though is why there are Knights of the Blazing Sun running around. They're a freaking Estalian UU! Estalian Knights (or any Knights but Chaos Knights really) don't strike me as the type to be Barb.

Also, (you may already be in the process of doing this) I'm sure you guys have noticed, since you're using FF base code to get the mod up to 3.19, that the FF guys have continued the 3 Barb factions from the current version of FfH. I'd like to suggest you do pretty much the same. The factions would be: Chaos (who would come in late game), Regular Barbs (who would include a lot of Orcs & Goblins, some Undead, and a few bandits), and Animals. Chaos would, of course, be the most aggressive, most likely to attack your cities. Just a suggestion, which you may already be working on.
 
There is a random Uprisings event where elites of the knightly orders will band together in crusade against you, increasingly likely if you are Chaos and are becoming too powerful. They can have superior equipment that advances with increasing length of the game, they don't come from barb settlements and don't care if you aren't prepared against them, they are meant as a potentially serious threat once you're pulling ahead (it sounds like you were in 1st place and thought you had it made.. around the time I usually stop playing from lack of challenge.) So yes, Chaos got some particularly nasty surprises :p But then so does everyone else.. Since the Uprising events don't own any cities or produce any troops, they can't be weaker or the same strength as the fortified troops around them or they wouldn't pose any serious threat.

Re your second point yes on all counts - in moving the mod to the standard codebase of Fall Further we plan to take advantage of the capability for multiple "barbarian" civs. AFAIK the current planned barb factions are:

Feral Greenskins
Leaders with the Greenskin Trait start at peace with the Feral Greenskins; this truce will dissolve if the civilization grows too powerful/civilized but may be regained with a powerful WAAGH! Ritual.

Chaos Undivided
Demons, Chaos Spawns, Marauder Warbands, etc that owe no allegiance to a particular Chaotic faction. Become increasingly more prevalent when the Winds of Chaos counter (Armageddon Counter replacement) is high. Because of the bitter infighting among minions of Chaos these can be a real threat even to the Hung and the Kurgan. Being elected Everchosen of Chaos (head of the Undercouncil replacement) could enable peace with the Chaos Undivided barb faction.

Animals
BTW I've been questioning whether it's appropriate to have generic Animals in this mod, especially as a separate barb faction. I think it could be interesting though to leave them in, have a few wild beasts like Griffon and Hippogriff that could potentially be captured by those with the right skills or magic, and perhaps have Athel Loren and the Beasts of Chaos duke it out for influence over the Animal barbarian faction. A powerful Amber Magic Ritual could also enable peace with the Animal barb faction.

Barbarians
Generic barbarian faction representing all other units effectively under no central control: the basic tribal barbarians in their cities/settlements plus a variety of units occurring via Uprising events, map spawning, lair exploring, etc. I doubt the need for adding any more separate barb factions other than these. In one of my games a Necromancer from an uprising event effectively seized control of a nearby barbarian city, and tormented me with a combination of summoned Skeletons and human troops from his fiefdom. He was hard to defeat; cool gameplay I thought :king:
 
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