Raliuven SG2 Demi-God Aztecs

lurker's comment: With 100K there are two ways you can go the feudalism temple of Artemis method, where you concentrate on pop rushing and fast growth in lots of corrupt cities, or another way is to go for replacable parts in a representative government and use civil engineers to build culture in corrupt cities, you can also build the internet with this method

One interesting take I have seen on cultural 100k for succesion games is that you can only build cities in your cultural borders

100K on demigod is probably going to require significant early warring. My 100K games usually end with 150-200 towns, and you can't get that by rexing on demigod.

I'm hearing a leaning toward space, though. That sounds fine with me. I just finished a spaceship game for the August HOF gauntlet, but that was at regent, so this will be significantly different.

del62 said:

lurker's comment: With 100K there are two ways you can go the feudalism temple of Artemis method, where you concentrate on pop rushing and fast growth in lots of corrupt cities, or another way is to go for replacable parts in a representative government and use civil engineers to build culture in corrupt cities, you can also build the internet with this method

One interesting take I have seen on cultural 100k for succesion games is that you can only build cities in your cultural borders

Click to expand...

if we are thinking of the same game - i think they lost that one.

Looking back through the thread ... I brought up 100k as an idea, but creamcheese would prefer space. Everyone else seems to be happy with either choice.

Between the two, I'd be equally happy with either VC, so I think space is the way to go for this game.

For the save, got it; I'll play later tonight. I'll move that Jaguar further south before making the call on whether to build a city by the cows and fish.

Space it is then. We will probably want a considerably looser build than ICS. We will be spending ~1/2 the game with hospitals, and we need some nice, productive core cities for beating the AI to parts.

darski said:

if we are thinking of the same game - i think they lost that one.

Click to expand...

lurker's comment: Yes that was on deity though

Pre-turn:

Switch Tenochtitlan to Granary; it should complete close to the end of my turnset.

2950 - Jaguar reveals another Ivory and some BGs, but the cow spot still looks better.

2900 - zzz
2850 - Jaguar spots Gem Mountain to the W.
2800 - Jaguar spots a goody hut
2750 (T5) - Jaguar disturbs Navajo Warriors
Teotihuacan founded next to the cows. We see a barb camp N of the city
Dispatch Jaguar Warrior from MP duty in the capital.
Lux to 10%

2710 - Jaguar barely kills Barb 1 tile away from Teotihuacan.
2670 - New MP reaches Tenochtitlan. Lux slider back to 0%.
2630 - Lose a Jaguar to a Barb camp while exploring the west.
2590 - Lux slider to 10% to stop a riot in Tenochtitlan.
Jaguar in Teotihuacan raids a barbarian camp in the forest to the N for 25g
2550 - zzz

Once the Granary completes, I think we should build another 3-4 Jaguar Warriors, then build a second Settler. We could use a second MP in the capital, two Jaguars exploring (to make up for lost time -- stupid barbarians!), and another one to act as escort for the second Settler.

I've got it.

Elephantium said:

Once the Granary completes, I think we should build another 3-4 Jaguar Warriors, then build a second Settler. We could use a second MP in the capital, two Jaguars exploring (to make up for lost time -- stupid barbarians!), and another one to act as escort for the second Settler.

Click to expand...

If we plan to build some units for purely MP duty, we might want to build regular warriors, not jags, as the extra cost gains us little or nothing.

Elephantium said:

Once the Granary completes, I think we should build another 3-4 Jaguar Warriors, then build a second Settler. We could use a second MP in the capital, two Jaguars exploring (to make up for lost time -- stupid barbarians!), and another one to act as escort for the second Settler.

Click to expand...

I have no idea where all those Barbs came from.

If we plan to build some units for purely MP duty, we might want to build regular warriors, not jags, as the extra cost gains us little or nothing.

Click to expand...

One nice thing about Jag MPs is that we'll be able to move them along roads to the cities as need to cover MP duties and barb invasions. (That, of course, assumes we build roads . . .) Not sure if it would be worth it across the board, just something to consider on a case-by-case basis.

Sorry I was out of contact for a few days. State Fair, back to school, etc. And my OP duties for lurker ease even though things are running like a well oiled machine:

Roster:

Raliuven (on deck)
creamcheese
Elephantium (just played)
CKS (Playing)

I hadn't realized that the Aztecs could build regular warriors. Are there any other tribes that can build the regular unit that they have a UU replacement for?

I don't remember seeing regular Warriors as an option in the build queue during my turnset.

2550 BC
Turn 0: Nothing.
IBT: Nothing

Turn 1: Road tobacco, fortify jag.
IBT: Granary to warrior. At 7 spt, building 15 s units stinks.

Turn 2: Science to 80%.
IBT: Learn alphabet, start writing. Worker to warrior in 2nd city.

Turn 3: Worker to cow.
IBT: Warrior to warrior.

Turn 4: Road cow, irrigate tobacco, jag goes east, warrior forts.
IBT: Nothing.

Turn 5: Jag east, switch city 1 to jag - I think it'll pick up a shield on growth and build the jag. If it doesn't, I'll switch to an archer, which we really need for barbs anyway.
IBT: Jag to jag.

Turn 6: First jag goes west, 2nd goes north.
IBT: Tenochtitlan riots. I'm surprised, because I'd checked it. Then I realized that I moved out the jag and lost an MP, though in my memory I checked after moving the jag.

Turn 7: Worker from cow goes NW. Both jags go mostly west. Lux to 30%.
IBT: Barb visible in west.

Turn 8: Tobacco worker goes east. Cow worker roads. Northern jag goes NW, southern jag fortifies - barb is to NW, we are across river in the forest.
IBT: Barb dies, jag is untouched. Jag to jag.

Turn 9: Worker roads. Jags go west and NW. New jag forts, lux back to 10%, science to 80%.
IBT: New barbs in view.

Turn 10: Western jag to mountain, northern jag NW, sees hut. Note: Don't pop the hut.

Tenochtitlan is currently building a jag. I think it should next build a settler, which can go off with the jag 3 west of Tenochtitlan (to get the ivory) or north along the river to the coast (getting ivory and curraghs). Teotihuacan will finish a warrior this turn, after which the jag can go explore or fog-bust. I exposed very few new tiles, but we've got jags out on the edges of our explored territory, so we should see something in the next turnset, if the barbs cooperate.

@ Elephantium: Regular warriors are available now; I built one and have almost finished another. It is kind of weird, though.

I got the save!

I'll look at it and probably play tonight and post a few pictures for lurkers.

Sorry- Question:

Turn 10: Western jag to mountain, northern jag NW, sees hut. Note: Don't pop the hut.

Click to expand...

Is this a warning or just a note that the hut is still around. Not sure if you have something planned for this hut or if you just didn't want the guaranteed 3 angry natives to chase our units around the map?

Okay, that's really weird. I didn't realize you could build both normal Warriors *and* JWs. I thought it was a "replacement unit" for the Warrior -- I'll need to look that up in the editor tonight to see how they set that up.

@ not noticing both units in the build queue during my set!

Elephantium said:

Okay, that's really weird. I didn't realize you could build both normal Warriors *and* JWs. I thought it was a "replacement unit" for the Warrior -- I'll need to look that up in the editor tonight to see how they set that up.

@ not noticing both units in the build queue during my set!

Click to expand...

This was one of the conquests changes I think. The Aztecs had no 10 shield military unit... or something like that.

I just didn't want the 3 angry warriors to chase our jag. We have done very little exploring because of hostile barb encounters, and I'd like that jag to be able to continue to explore. On demigod our jags don't have very good survival chances.

It looks like we have A LOT of land between us and the AI. There is the little bit of fog to the Southwest, but its pretty small to be hiding a civ. Because of the amount of land, I decided to set Teo for a Granary right away. If we can go into high production with settlers we should be able to gobble up a lot of that land. Ten is doing a lot of good production; the shield generation can be split 7/8 to make 15 shields - either for a Jag or a settler and pick up extra gold on the 7 sheild split. I'm keeping Ten at about size 4. Does take MPs to keep happiness until we can hook up the elephants.

I decided to expand west to try to grab the land up and build towards the AI. I think the Greek are in the Northwest. The down side is that we have barbs springing up along the northern fogline. We could use Ten to expand west and Teo to back fill.

Irrigation is almost to Teo. Unit costs are hurting us at the moment. Ten is making a Jag to escort the next settler - it's just not safe out there with all the angry barbs sulking around. I'm pretty sure there is a camp to the north somewhere between Ten & Teo, we don't have the units to go afer it yet, though.

Turn Log:

Everything looks good. MM Ten back to the tobacco for extra gold; BG shield not needed this turn.

IBT – barb attacks our Jag on mountain (nice placement), wins, -1hp. Sorry, clarification - the Jag wins, not the barb.

2110 BC (turn 1)
Ten Jag>Settler.
Teo Jag>Granary.
Lux to 20% to deal with Ten’s population.

2070 BC (turn 2)
Northern Jag meets the Greek.

Bad news, they are up BW, Masonry, TW, CB. They have 4 cities and 134gp. I’m guessing they know a few people.

2030 BC (turn 3)
I race the Greek back to the hut. I will pop it the round they are next to it. Hopefully if there are barbs they will attack the two greek warriors in the area and I can pull the Jag out of the battle or at least onto a hill. I’d like to see the greek warriors die – at least one of them.

IBT – wow, a barb horse and warrior come out of the northern area by our workers that are trying to connect our two cities. Not good.

1990 BC (turn 4) pull a Jag warrior out of the capital and attack the barb horse – lose. Of course. Pull out the warrior – win, workers are safe – for now. With no garrison, lux to 40%. Ouch.

IBT – barb warrior moves onto road behind workers.

1950 BC (turn 5) – Jag from Teo kills the warrior. Everything is safe – for now. Road between cities are complete, workers double time irrigation to Teo.
Ten settler>Jag.
Greek are next to barb camp. Take my big risk and grab the GH.

Not great, could be worse. We get a free conscript warrior.

1910 BC (turn 6) – zzz

1870 BC (turn 7)
Ten Jag>worker

1830 BC (turn 8)
Found Tlat to the west.

1790 BC (turn 9)
Ten worker>jag (next player an veto to a settler if they wish)

1750 BC (turn 10)
Leave units unmoved.
Worker is making a road towards Tlat. Other workers are irrigating the cow.

The World as we know it in 1750BC

Roster:

Raliuven (just played)
creamcheese (Playing)
Elephantium (on deck)
CKS

We are really isolated. I'm trying to decide whether that is good or bad. I guess we'll build nothing but settlers, workers, and jags for a long time.

Since the chances of barbs from a hut are 75%, I'm quite happy with a conscript warrior. They make lovely MPs until they retire and the new republic dawns.

Since Tenochtitlan is going to be building a lot of jags, I'd like to fit in a barracks sometime soon. Demigod barbs don't give promotions so well. I also think we need an archer or two for local protection, so as to avoid situations like turn 4 as much as possible.