SGOTM 15 - Maple Sporks

Got it.

Not completely sure what to do with it.

Engineering in 8.
 
Another write-up without my notes. I will make a separate post later for the city build information in more detail.

First off, I made a small error by not switching to IW immediately. This would have let me get my workers in place to mine the sites 3 turns earlier. Well 6-7 turns earlier if I had teched it prior to Mach like I had planned. Neither iron landed on an already mined tile. DeerGold did get stronger as our HE city as iron popped on a riverside grass farm. 28 base hammers now once fully grown and 63 hammers after HE and forge are complete is the projection for this city. 67 if we can afford an engineer spec. Not too shabby.

The other iron landed in the dead zone east of Marble Hill, south of Cowcamp and west of Golden Fleece. If we settle the city 2N of the fish tile we would have another decent hammer city that could be a wealth builder.

Got some really good scouting done of Egypt. Thebes is a monster of a city (someone should do a screen shot) and actually could have been even better by settling 1S or 1SW (I forget which). No signs of anyone elses borders yet. They have horse and ivory just like Hammu.

I have a spy scouting out Hammugawa’s lands. He just entered so nothing new to report there yet. Hopefully, he can give us some intel prior to getting caught. The scouting WB got blocked off by the city on the island to our west. I turned it around to see if it can scout along the “coast” created by our mountain borders. Who knows, maybe we find something interesting. Worst case, it turns around and nets our crab or fish.

Interesting tech options coming up. Engineering first but Civil Service and Feudalism after that give us some new civic options. Getting the pre-reqs for Cuirs will be helpful as well. I can see Vassalage being quite helpful with our growing army! But of course, maces and Bureau look good too. Our cap isn’t much of a Bureau cap so I would argue for Feud after Eng.
 
What I see is Hammu is the most backward but has a nice stack which pikes will help take out. He is lacking Machinery so with trebs and pikes we could probably make some slow progress. Hammu built the GLH which could help our economy some.

Egypt looks juicier though. Its a decent march to make it to Thebes across pretty open ground.

We should switch our EP's to Elizagawa I would think.

Go figure that Shaka dislikes us least!

I think the mountains are there to limit effectiveness of Astronomy.
 
Other items from my set after looking at my notes.

Only 1 point away from another GG. I’m thinking we could medic the scout to be used in a stack of Cuirs. Or settle in DeerGold and use the next GG on another medic.

I think I might have went a little heavy on the infra. I’m thinking granary and Hindu buildings (perhaps courthouses) should be the only things we build in our future captured cities. Then swap to wealth.

Do we want to build a settler or two to settle on banana and 2S of the new iron. Each would have a seafood for quick growth and plenty of hammers to be good wealth producers. Or even contribute with drafting later on. Or would they be too much of a maintenance drain? Both are coastal so trade routes might save the day. Especially if we take the GLH soon.

Stack updates.

Hammu: 1 Jumbo, 2 HA, 1 Sword, 6 Cats, 2 Axe, 2 Chariots
Hats: 2 Jumbos, 2 HA, 6 Cats, 2 Axe, 4 War Chariots

I’m concerned that we don’t have a unit that can handle the jumbos. We need them to suicide on our pikes or be weakened sufficiently by our Trebs.

I agree with setting EP to Liz.
 
Devote EP to Liz. Get to engineering asap. I'd put Deergold on xbow production once iron is connected rather than the forge but otherwise its build wealth, grow cities and get ready to whip out trebs and pikes once engineering is finished (8 turns).

If we're going for warfare then settlers ain't a priority imo.
 
Agree with no settlers and growth for subsequent whippage. IIRC we still need archery for xbows. Would try and finish forge in DG asap, maybe with 1 pop whip when iron is online.
 
Ze Plan

Marblehill Forge>wealth
Deergold Forge>xbows
Osaka Rax>wealth
Satsuma Gran>Rax
Kyoto NE>Rax
Tokyo Walls>Temple>Rax (pinches copper and corn from unhappy Kyoto)
other cities continue building wealth

Tech archery>eng (8-9turns).

Civics orgrel>theocracy after engineering.

EP> Liz 100%.

Wil play tomorrow.
 
I probably won't be able to look at the save before you play, so take this with a grain of salt.

The general gist of ze plan is fine with me, just wondering about some city builds. Why build a barracks in Kyoto? If we just built the NE here I'd say we should build any building that gives specialists (lib, market, forge, temple; dunno what we have there atm). While we're at it, I'd assume we want to hire specs here after the NE is built.

Also wonder if a barracks in Satsuma at this instance is very useful. If it's not going to build units immediately it better either do other infra first (forge if it has none) or just build wealth. Tokyo's rax is okay with me, being the outpost that it is. Tokyo can certainly take Kyoto's bronze, corn depends a bit on the level of unhappiness and the number of specs we can/want to hire in Kyoto. A few farms near Tokyo would be good to give flexibility in leaving corn at Kyoto.

IIRC there is a fair number of cities that currently is building wealth, that has considerable hammer overflow in the queue. It might take some micro, but I think that it would be worth it to try and consume that overflow for units now to beef up our stack. The idea would be to push out that unit in a few turns (xbow, sword, cat; whatever) leaving as little hammer overflow as possible and switch back to wealth. As the DoW will be well after your set, those units should have ample time to walk to their destination.

I'm not sure how big the effect is on the research time to engineering, but I'd consider Stone Hill for secondary unit (xbow/sword) pump instead of only building wealth here. It's the second closest city after DG to the new front and as such the best option if we want to produce more units. Of course after engineering we'll concentrate on trebs and some pikes.

Good luck!
 
My rationale for barracks everywhere is to be able to whip lvl3 units everywhere (with theo). I'd also prefer to get to eng asap and I don't see the value in building any more classical units.
 
Well, swords are only 2/3rds the cost of xbows, equal strength, intrinsic +10% city attack, while the +50% melee from xbows won't shine much if hammu is mainly fielding mounted and bowmen. With all our siege I think swords are cheaper mop-up. Not saying no to xbows but I'd make a mix.
 
I agree with ze plan.

I also think we should skew towards swords when iron is online. Maybe a 2/1 mix.

I agree that Kyoto doesn't need a rax. It will be running specs mostly and it's hammers should go into spec buildings.

Satsuma can go either way for me. Not much there (if I recall) in the way of hammers so we would need to whip our production. If this is the case units>wealth and rax can be added.

Can't remember where we are with the next GP. What are our plans with a GS? Fire up the Golden Age that should have happened during my set I assume?
 
Kyoto to build market after NE. Can swop to theo a bit earlier to produce some swords, need to muck around a bit with micro to get the balance. Next GP not due in my set, something to discuss a bit later.
 
I agree with the plan as well.
 
Played up to 800ad. Just got engineering.

The save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm15/Maple_Sporks_SG015_AD0800_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

Quick report.
680ad. Meet mansagawa (no screenshot), he's surprisingly backwards, guess that's the effect of no tech brokering. Archery>eng. Whip forge in deergold. Genghis makes a demand:

In the interests of peace we agree.

700ad. Iron connected. Deergold forge>xbow. Marble hill forge>wealth, research 90%, eng in 5.

720. Inca/Mali are a team, they're both wheoorn! We're probably the target. Sell our map to Shaka for 40g.

740. Hyuanamansagama adopt vassalage. Shaka adopts vassalage.

760. Kyoto NE>Forge (+2happy). We hit 2 million pop. Sistine bidl.

780. Meet Cyrusagawa who's at war with Hats.


800. Tokyo having built wall and hintemp starts on CH (9gpt maintenance).
Engineering is in. Swop from wealth to units. Start on CS.

Interesting culture map:


Zulu north of babylon, mongolia north of egypt, england in the middle, persia and inca/mali unknown.

Swop to theocracy? Who's our target?

edit: off-topic, I've just had a look at the progress page, plastic duck's power rating is phenomenal, OSS ain't too far behind.
 
Sounds good, pigswill. :)

Assuming you're done, Norvin is up, I'm on deck.

Haven't seen the save yet but theocracy sounds logical while Hammu looks like the natural target to me. CS for maces is a good option indeed. I'm thinking that nationalism for the draft could also enter our short/medium term plans. For now spit out trebs and some pikes. Haven't seen the current build-up but I'd say that with 3 or 4 pikes we should be ready to start rolling.
 
Looks good.

I'd declare on Hammu straight away. Some extra units for backup might be send that way, but the rest should be buildup for Egypt (on which we should declare reasonably fast).

Tech: CS > Nat indeed.
 
I've only played 8 turns, happy to play a few more, also happy for Norvin to take up the reins. The next bit is picking the target and building an army asap. Do we become miserable short term and adopt police state to go with theocracy?
 
Excellent work pigswill.

I would vote no for PS. It would bring our research to a halt and I'd hate to see how long it would take to get CS without our Rep beakers. Considering the screenie shows 16 turns at current research levels.

I'll take a look at the save tonight. I still think Feud is worthwhile for the Vassalage benefits. Extra XP and free units sound really good to me. But I'm not locked into this by any means.

Questions for pigswill.

1)Is our Babylonian spy still active?
2)Any juicy targets in Babylonia (like Thebes) that we should actively target?
3)Did our Egyptian scout run out of room to scout? And if so, is our CRIII axe returning to Tokyo?
4)Any other OB/trade opportunities arise during your set?
 
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