Scientific Leader

I've been playing for a few hours now... I've received 3 scientific leaders and no military leaders!

They always apear in your capital.

1 in the Napoleon scenario and 2 in the Mesopotemia scenario.

They seem easy to get as long as your the first to discover the techs.

I've been playing France and Sumeria. Ekidu warriors kick ass!!!

Those Babylonian's don't stand a chance!!!:rocket2:

i am reading from the manual
"
"units available to all cultures"
scientific great leaders can be awarded when you have shown your skill at competing in the tech race anytime you are the first tribe to research a tech the opportunity for recieving a scienctific great leader is increased you can use them to boost science in the city for 20 turns or to hurry a city production from page 39 of the new instruction manual

So doesn't this mean that militaristic and scientific Germany will have a clear-cut edge in leader production?

Originally posted by ShiplordAtvar
So doesn't this mean that militaristic and scientific Germany will have a clear-cut edge in leader production?

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Probably.
Note that crazybeard's statement that militaristic civs has an increased chance of getting military leaders is misleading.

The chance of an elite unit victory producing a leader is identical for military and non-military civs. But military civs has a higher chance of getting promotions, so they will probably have more elite units and therefore more elite victories.

Originally posted by TheNiceOne

Probably.
Note that crazybeard's statement that militaristic civs has an increased chance of getting military leaders is misleading.

The chance of an elite unit victory producing a leader is identical for military and non-military civs. But military civs has a higher chance of getting promotions, so they will probably have more elite units and therefore more elite victories.

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All the more reason for me to play as Germany, I like the combination of traits and the UU ain't that bad either.

Of course there remains the minor detail of having not yet purchased C3C, due to its complete absence on store shelves in eastern Bell County. Curse you Circuit City, Wal-Mart, and EB Games Boutique!![punch]

Originally posted by wunder
I've been playing for a few hours now... I've received 3 scientific leaders and no military leaders!

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Do the scientific leaders also appear if you get a tech by opening a hut?

Originally posted by ossi
Do the scientific leaders also appear if you get a tech by opening a hut?

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Ineteresting question. I don't have an answer but will point out that many times a hut pops a first line tech that another civ already has, and SGLs only appear when you're the first to research a tech.

I would be surprised if you could get an SGL from a hut even if you're the first to get the tech (well, first besides that minor tribe). I know the game knows the difference because the advisor tells you things like "the minor tribe taught us Writing" or "our researchers have discovered Map Making", and it wouldn't make sense to get a leader when someone else gives you the tech.

Wow, how annoying would it be if you could effectively pop the Pyramids from a goody hut?

I got a Sci Leader in the Industrial Age (spawns in capitol), and used it for science.

My thoughts? Well, seemed rather useless. The science gain was very minimal. If it's true leaders can't rush wonders anymore, then the building function seems like a waste (though I agree it makes more sense).

I would think that Great Leaders will now be mainly for army creation & Sci Leaders for nothing...but if I had to pick, I would use them to rush a factory or something so I could help a lame city become more useful.

Anyone know if you can have a Great & Science Leader at the same time?

SGL's can rush Wonders. It was in the Apolyton Chat on Nov 4th.

[16:30] <+Gobi> Yes, let's talk about leaders a bit.
[16:31] <+Gobi> There were two main goals with respect to leaders. 1) Make sure that peaceful
builders could get leaders too, and
[16:31] <+Gobi> 2) Make sure that there were still choices about how to use them once you
received them
[16:31] <+Gobi> Before warmongers got the most leaders and they always used them to rush
wonders
[16:32] <+Gobi> So now, you can still get leaders through military action
[16:32] <+Gobi> But we made two changes so you didn't always rush wonders with them
[16:33] <+Gobi> We made armies better, and we changed it so military leaders only rush small
wonders
[16:33] <+Gobi> You can now get Scientific Leaders by being the first to research a tech.
[16:33] <opd22> can SGL rush GWs?
[16:33] <+bobT_Breakaway> yes they can
[16:33] <+Gobi> They can rush Great Wonders OR give you a bonus on scientific research for
20 turns
[16:34] <MrWIA_working> Gobi - does that mean that there is a % chance of getting a SL when
you are the first to an advance for EVERY advance?
[16:34] <+Gobi> MrWIA: Yes it does. But the chance is small (about 5%)
[16:34] <+Gobi> Unless you are a scientific civ

[16:35] <Chieftess> I thought 5% was for the Scientific civ, and 3% for everyone else (unless
they changed that at the last minute)

[16:35] <+Gobi> Trust Chieftess on those percentages ... I'm doing this from memory

Now this is just my idea, others may not agree, but having a leader being able to rush a whole wonder in one turn was rather cheap as a civ could be building for 20 turns then all of a sudden bam its done. Maybe Great Leaders should be able to give a significant amount of shields to a wonder like 75 or a 100. This would make it a little bit more fair as nobody could build a wonder in 1 turn.

Also who misses the frieght trucks, god I would have like 20 of them stacked in my cities to beat my oppenents to a wonder.

the leader build function is the only practical way to build a forgotten palace in a completely corrupt city making a completely independant core; a fairly strong thing to do imo. Can they still rush that? guess ill know soon enough.

Since the FP is a Small WOnder, I would assume a Military GL would be able to Rush it.

Got a Scientific GL in a MP game last night after researching Mapmaking. He could not rush anything OTHER than a Great Wonder (although I'm not sure if they could rush Small Wonders as I couldn't build any yet). Oh well, the Pyramids were fine with me.


Motown

I would like, if anyone knows, what are the exact probability of getting a scientic leader? And how much better is the chance for scientific civs?

3% for a non-scientific civ, 5% for a scientific one.

I'm interested to know the answer to the question about whether you can get them from huts. (Wow that was a clunky sentence.) I would hope they don't, since Expansionist Civs usually get the whole first tier of the tech tree this way (I've gotten up to 7 or 8 techs from Scouts) so they would get a pretty big chance to get an SGL right from the start, which would only increase the Expansionist advantage.

Update: I haven't had a Scientific GL yet, but I've had two Military GL's. They seem to be able to rush any city improvement (barracks, walls, temples, libraries, cathedrals, etc.) but not rush military units (pikemen, medieval infantry, etc). They can rush a palace, but I didn't have any small wonders available to build at the time. (Unless palace is a small wonder.)

@ Puppeteer: That makes for an interesting exploit. You can rush the palace and then switch to a Great Wonder for an instant prebuild.

It wouldn't make the wonder instantaneous (unless it is cheaper or equal to the cost of the Palace), but it would speed it up.

I got a Scientific GL shortly into the game last night and used it to rush the Great Library. If it weren't for that, I would have probably lost in a much shorter time span than I did. Hehehe

Originally posted by cgannon64
That makes for an interesting exploit. You can rush the palace and then switch to a Great Wonder for an instant prebuild.

It wouldn't make the wonder instantaneous (unless it is cheaper or equal to the cost of the Palace), but it would speed it up.

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Last I knew, if you rush anyhing (like an expensive city improvement) you are unable to switch it to a great wonder. I think this was done precisely to prevent such exploits.

In PTW if you rush with a leader you can never change it (for example, to another wonder).