SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

With all of this overflow and "too much science" we should figure out how much we really need with about 200 beakers/turn buffer (which is what bbp and the rest of you have been doing). bcool can then target to hit this number every turn and the rest can be used to build up for our wars.

Hey war tzar (shyuhe), we just bought you some early production for your war preparation. Let's go kick some American a$$!!

Nukes get destroyed much like boats in an undefended city. The AI WILL nuke itself to kill your SOD though, so we want to attack Stalin amphibiously and stay out of range of his nukes.

Too much research just means we can convert the extra hammers into military units.

bcool said:

I'm thinking we have 3 or 4 turns to terraform. We don't need it but it help wealth/research and the builds. So I'm doing what I can as I move the workers towards Roosy, either to gift to him or to use after the war begins.

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That sound like a good plan. It would be nice to have 10 workers sitting on the gold tile near Chengdu in 3 turns so that we can clear and mine it before we lose it again.

Are we planning to gift Roosevelt any workers? We have a ton in India and should be building/capturing 15 more in the next few turns, so I don't think workers will be an issue (we can even build more if needed). But if Roosevelt cleans up some of the fallout for us, it will ease our logistics of trying to clean it ourselves even though we could do it if it comes to that. It's just a bit of a logistical excercise that we could make easier for ourselves.

Also, props to bbp for pushing for the 18t research plan -- I still can't believe our bpt grew from 3k to 8k in the span of 10 turns...

Mitchum said:

I'm not sure how you're calculated overflow, but the green bar looks to be 2/3 of Satellites, or 2/3 * 9360 = 6,240 OF. Is that right?

I just messed with the slider and specs and found out that we can complete Robotics (12,480 ) with 5,119 research * 1.2 = 6,143 beakers. 12,480 - 6,143 = 6,337 OF.

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I'm not calculating it - just wildly guessing.

Quick calculation:
Maybe 100-200bpt to each estimate in the first 2-3t for a safety margin.

@bbp Looks good. It took me a while to realize that the "Cost" number was the beakers required divided by 1.2.

I think the overflow on T243 is 7500 - (-557) = 8,057. With that, I think we can drop the numbers even further to allow more military buildup. We can even push out Genetics by 1 turn since learning it on T246 doesn't help us unless we want to rework our SS build plans to finish on T249...

Mitchum said:

@bbp Looks good. It took me a while to realize that the "Cost" number was the beakers required divided by 1.2.

I think the overflow on T243 is 7500 - (-557) = 8,057. With that, I think we can drop the numbers even further to allow more military buildup. We can even push out Genetics by 1 turn since learning it on T246 doesn't help us unless we want to rework our SS build plans to finish on T249...

Click to expand...

Fixed:
Yes, we can obviously slow it down, and finish Genetics in 2t.

I'm away from the game but aren't we on T242 now?

so satellites T242
fiber optics T243
fusion T244
composites T245
genetics T246 and T247 if necessary

Our research will drop significantly once the spaceship parts are being built so I would rather do 8500 for 3 turns and then drop down to 6000 or less. Not sure how much less, but building more military in 3 turns rather than now would be slightly better (less upkeep). But of course getting the military units there is a factor.

I wouldn't expect we can get anywhere near the research we are now on T246 (since 15 cities will be building spaceship parts) and many will start T245.

To free up even more hammers for troop buildup, we could drop bbp's numbers even further to something like:



The number in the OF column represents how many margin beakers we had on learning the previous tech in one turn. So the closest one was learning Composites on T245 with only a 407 beaker margin. Of course, if it's too close or we made a minor mistake, bcool can always raise the slider to generate enough beakers on T244 to learn it in 1 turn.

A lean plan with more hammers available earlier will definitely make the end game much easier.

EDIT: Updated turn numbers. bcool was right that it is now T242.

bcool said:

Our research will drop significantly once the spaceship parts are being built so I would rather do 8500 for 3 turns and then drop down to 6000 or less.

Click to expand...

Ok, that makes sense.

I just messed with the slider and specs and found out that we can complete Robotics (12,480 ) with 5,119 research * 1.2 = 6,143 beakers. 12,480 - 6,143 = 6,337 OF.

Click to expand...

The 6337 OF should be divided by 1.2 I think since bbp looks like he is using after prereq numbers in his table.

bcool said:

Our research will drop significantly once the spaceship parts are being built so I would rather do 8500 for 3 turns and then drop down to 6000 or less. Not sure how much less, but building more military in 3 turns rather than now would be slightly better (less upkeep). But of course getting the military units there is a factor.

Click to expand...

Our research is at 5,433 at 0% slider. Even if we have many cities building SS parts for the last 2 to 3 turns of research, I think it is going to be very easy to generate enough beakers.

bcool said:

The 6337 OF should be divided by 1.2 I think since bbp looks like he is using after prereq numbers in his table.

Click to expand...

You're right. Let's put together a plan that has a bit more research in the front end and then 0% slider for the last 3 turns. How about something like this:



That gives us some margin for error and allows us to do a bit more early military buildup.

I'm going to build the military plan using only the two post-genetics turns + 10 turns of launch time. Anything before that will just be extra gravy.

Okay I will hit 8100+ for the next 3 turns and then 5500+ and 5000+ after that.
Seems like we would be able to passively make enough to research Flight after Genetics.

I think it makes sense to focus most of the military "bonus" builds for Stalin. Since if we can get those in place they can move on and help with Roosy. Maybe i can even set up the Stalin war entirely boats and marines.

The drydock suggestion I made in the PPP was primarily so the boats under theocracy came out with enough xp for +1 movement, not just for the hammer savings.

I will produce a few spies for Roosy to set up city revolts.

shyuhe let me know what if anything you want me to upgrade or how much gold to save for upgrades

so one thing I thought of but didn't look into because it probably doesn't make sense...

If we stay in pacifism then we can pop another great person perhaps in time to help more than the research bonus from FR? A great merchant trade mission would basically be hammers that we could spread out to a number of cities (since they wouldn't have to build wealth).

Of course we might be able to do this anyway with the switch to FR. Where could we get a Great Merchant after the GA/GS from GP farm? I assume Rheims is a possibility but I haven't looked at how long it would take.

Can guerilla III units (+50 attack vs. hills and 50% withdraw chance) can they withdraw when attacking amphibiously?

I ask because I'm guessing Stalin has some hill cities? Maybe not, but I'm wondering what the high xp marines from Moscow might be able to do. (the best might be Combat I Medic I March (heal even when move))

I was thinking more modern armor for Moscow (assuming we have oil + aluminum). Moscow can build 1 turn MA and their promos are better than marines. Siberia would also build modern armor too (and maybe hammer city).

marines in Moscow before the spaceship part, Modern armor afterwards. Since I'm not planning on hooking up oil until 3 turns prior to launch and Moscow will be building an engine for us.

PPP (will edit this one with more updates when I get home and have a chance to look at it more closely)

I wasn't able to double check everything but this is a draft to comment on.

Tech plan (8100+ for 3 turns, then 5500+, then 5000+)
Satellites (1), Fiber Optics (bulb T+0) (1), Fusion (1), Composites (1), Genetics (2), Flight (2?)

Civic Changes
Switch to FR T+0

(Switch to theocracy T246, 5 turns prior to launch assuming Genetics
Research will be finished on schedule) Is this worth it? I think I would have to switch 5 turns prior to launch if we wanted to immediately switch to slavery. Right now I'm leaning towards not switching to theocracy. the extra research and gold (from civic savings) will let us build more units while researching flight faster.

AI interactions
Trade fission to roosy for 110 gold T+0
trade ecology to roosy for whatever gold he has T+1
gift ~5 workers to roosy maybe T+4.
Trade for other AI gold with non-military techs, updated trades for more gpt if possible (check every turn)

War
can begin even before space ship launch assuming Genetics will finish
with mostly passive research.
3 turns prior to launch gandhi war could be started, using cultural
slider to prevent happiness issues in spaceship part cities
Will be moving units around to set up for this. Capturing Gandhi's
remaining cities with fallout.
Attempt as much setup of boats and marines for Stalin war T+7 T249 landing target (will lose fish trades with DoW just a reminder for me in case it matters)

noteworthy specialist changes
run 25 scientists in GP Farm T+0 and get GS there T+2
run scientists instead of spies everywhere

Great People and Golden Ages
Move them away from Galley City
Bulb GS on Fiber Optics right now
Use GE(fusion), GProphet, GM, GSpy, GA/GS from GP Farm for 5 person GA

Colonization Plans
settling on Iron SW of churchill lands T+2 (galley chain)
settling on Iron SE of Yakutsk T+3 with galley-galleon boost

Noteworthy city improvements planned
Launch -3 (T+5) use workboat to get Oil near Rostov (must make sure
additional doesn't cause unexpected population decreases
(should be offset by Genetics--just can depend on Genetics boost to
health I guess)
stop AL mine build that I failed to stop last turn.

City builds
If research is on pace or better than 8100 research per turn we have more hammers to play with. I started a list of things we might want so that I can incorporate them if my research goes better than necessary.

Ideas
Marines in Moscow
Marines elsewhere?
Sushi executive to try and get either Iron away from Gandhi or Uranium from Roosey
More workers
More Galleons
Drydock somewhere?

Upgrade priorities (all of this would occur T246 or later if we have the research to spare)
Launch -3 or T+5 upgrade galleons to transports (since we plan to get
oil if not uranium by then)
galleys to transports (or just Galleons?)
CRIII Macemen to infantry
Cannons to Artillery?

Assume that I am starving but not shrinking and building wealth or research unless otherwise noted
Also I have not listed all military units that we would start or finish on or after T247

City Builds
Moscow Marines(1) for 4 turns (stop starvation) Building engine T245 (OF from Marine builds will be plenty to finish engine in 5)

Fish shrink 7 18 merchants +2 scientists Building thruster T246
Marines here if possible for Stalin prior to Thruster build Or drydock and +1 movement galleons?

Siberia increase base hammers to 132 Apollo (2), Aqueduct(1) for 86 OF, T245 Docking Bay finished T248 Stasis chamber

Pigs scientists
GP Farm 25 scientists
Cuba grow, then starve max research with scientists

Bahamas Cockpit T246
Marines/galleons here if possible

Bermuda Casing T246
Marines/galleons here if possible

Rheims Casing T246

Bananas wealth/research for 2 turns Drydock(1) Galleon/Transport x4 Marines here if possible

Paris Life Support T245/246 (start depends on possible Terraforming)
Marines here if possible for Stalin (assuming they can make it over to the East coast prior to T246) Paris if I remember correctly has a GG.

Kamchatka wealth/research T+4 boats?

Orleans Thruster T245/T246 (start depends on possible Terraforming)
Chenghu (revolt 3 turns) Draftx2? when come out of revolt—might help prevent another revolt) spy (1) Marine (2) spy (1) Marine (2)

Bcool Island Grow, then starving, galleon T245 if possible casing T246

Shanghai
The Crabbes
Marines/galleons here if possible

Beijing (no spaceship part) wealth/research Modern Armor T247
Marines/Modern Armor here if possible

Guangzhou spy T245 (gets 40 OF) thruster (T246)

Nanjing
[spy if possible for Roosy]

Hammer City Engine T245

Tours
Haiti marines/galleons here if possible

Hastings Casing T246

Nottingham grow, then shrink maximize wealth/research
York grow, then max

Oxford grow, then stagnate Thruster T245-6 depending on Terraforming has 34OF from Harbor last turn

Newcastle workers (1 per turn)
Iron Spice from T245 boats here if possible
Mitchum’s Oasis

London T246 Thruster

Canterbury T246 Casing

Warwick (finish mining exec build?)
Steam

Rostov workboat T246 for oil T247

Yaroslavl Theater
Yekaterinburg
Jamaica boat here if possible

--Maybe break following Indian worker builds for wealth/research during T243, T244
Vijayanagara worker(2) worker (2) worker (2) worker (2)
Agra spy (1) worker (2) worker (1) worker (1) worker (2)
Delhi worker (1) worker (2) worker (2) worker (2)
Pataliputra workers
Bombay workers
Calcutta workers
Yakursk worker