XCOM 2

Anyone else getting perilously close to the avatar timer? I only have 3 more pips and then its game over. Just about to attack another black site though so hopefully i can relieve some pressure.

I really like the strategic game on the geoscope. It really adds a whole new layer to the gameplay.

Im facing mutons now. And they are even more big and scary than last time. No chryssalids yet though.

Enjoying it so far, though embarrassingly I dropped down to normal after losing the first narrative mission on my first attempt (and then losing it again...)

Anyone who's finished it, are there second wave options and if so which ones? I'm a little disappointed that the rookies all have the same base stats (something I'm unused to as I always played EU/WU with Not Created Equal enabled), though at least 'Hidden Potential' (randomised stat boosts on promotion) is enabled by default. From the little I've seen of the promotion trees, they seem much more focused and specialised to the individual unit types than in EU/EW - which would make Training Roulette (another favourite Second Wave option) awkward.

Enjoying the storytelling as well, despite performance issues which cause the cinematics to drag somewhat - seems overall to be better-written than XCOM 1, and while it's disappointing that the early narrative missions follow exactly the same structure (autopsy alien X, research 'alien containment', capture live example of alien X) as the first game, it seems to hang together better as a story - and actually uses a typical alien type rather than one found only in one type of mission, and then existing only as a plot point which disappears altogether once that role has been fulfilled.

ImperialGuard said:

I think the timers "fit" the theme of XCOM 2 -- You're a guerrilla organization, and when the mission starts, you have to leave soon, before the ADVENT/aliens come in with reinforcements

It adds another dimension to the missions -- instead of like XCOM where you could take all day on a mission, doing the same thing every turn, (go to high cover and overwatch while waiting for the enemy)

Of course having said all that, I do find that it does takes some of the enjoyment out of the missions, because you are so rushed you don't get to enjoy the tactical part of the game.

I've only played maybe 8 missions into the story, and feels like maybe 40% of the missions had some kind of "timing element". Not sure if it keeps that kind of ratio, but it might be nicer if it was a little lower ratio on timed missions.

I haven't failed any of the timed missions either, so that hasn't hurt my perception of them

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Thanks, ImperialGuard 40% of the missions being less enjoyable (maybe for the sake of variety) does strike me as worrisome, though. I do not care for the timed missions in EU/EW, and the timed+scripted missions are the worst. Not fun.

sherbz said:

Anyone else getting perilously close to the avatar timer? I only have 3 more pips and then its game over. Just about to attack another black site though so hopefully i can relieve some pressure.

I really like the strategic game on the geoscope. It really adds a whole new layer to the gameplay.

Im facing mutons now. And they are even more big and scary than last time. No chryssalids yet though.

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The Geoscape in EU/EW is so bad. I believe you can play a flawless game and still lose on impossible difficulty, due to the random and stupid "pick 1 of 3 missions" being tied to the Doomsday Tracker.

I'm cautiously optimistic about XCOM 2, and definitely interested in learning more about how the strategic layer and the avatar timer work.

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Played xcom2 over the weekend and I am more or less coming to the end on the second hardest difficulty. Some pointers:

Strategic Layer:
I nearly lost on the strategic layer because i did not advance the story (hack an advent officer) and in the mid game i had a race against time to expand all over the glove to destroy alien facilities. i was down to 5 days remaining (you get a ~14 days deadline after the avatar project bar is full) and had the avatar progress bar full for 3 different times.




class balance:
here i am a bit disappointed. the most powerful class is the psi operative (i have two fully trained ones) followed by the grenadier. my list:

1. Psi Operative:
The best class by far. decent area damage, decent single target damage at incredible ranges and always hitting. Now add an absurd amount of control over the battlefield. Also this class does not require kills, weapon upgrades, munitions or personal combat sims. However you need a Psi Lab which is expensive both in cost and energy. I nearly lost on the strategic layer because i went for very early psi.

Notables: Stasis, Domination
Stasis does not end your turn and it never fails and works on all enemies. it is incredible powerful because you can take the most dangerous enemies out of the picture (sectopods, gatekeepers and andromedans). if you have multiple Psi Operatives you can chain stasis.

Domination is permanent and is surprisingly easy to do on very powerful enemies. imho the best enemy to dominate is the andromedan.


2. Grenadier:
The best of the regular classes, insane area damage combined with very good single target damage and some control. The low aim can be offset by items and cover destruction with a liberal use of grenades.
My favourite build:
Shredder, Suppression, Heavy Ordnance, Volatile Mix, Salvo, Rupture

Shredder shreds more armour depending on the weapon tier (3 armour for plasma weapons) and some late game enemies have a lot of armour (e.g. gatekeeper has 5). Salvo is insane because you can use a grenade and shoot (after the grenade has destroyed the cover) or use two grenades in one turn. Rupture is very good for the most dangerous enemies, you will need it. The best grenade is the acid bomb, because it leaves a 4 damage dot on enemies, which means that one acid bomb is usually enough to wipe an Advent squad. I highly recommend blue screen ammo (+5 damage against robotic enemies), an superior scope and expanded magazine for the weapon and a personal combat sim that grants aim (for +30 aim in total, i.e. at max. rank you will have 105 aim).


3. Ranger
The Ranger is good for advanced scouting and incredible burst damage, however i don't think you should have more than 1 ranger on a mission because they lack crowd control, area damage and ranged aim.

My favourite build:
Phantom, Shadow Step, Run and Gun, Implacable, Untouchable, Rapid Fire

Phantom is essential if you want to keep an advanced scout for the mission on all missions, even on missions where the rest of your squad starts revealed, the rest is fairly self explanatory. Make sure to use Talon Rounds and a Superior Laser Sight for 100%+ crit chance in close quarters. I don't use swords because Phantom is that good.


4. Specialist
This class is noteable worse then the classes above. I usually bring a Specialist for ranged hacking and that is it. Everything a specialist can do, other classes can do better.


5. Sharpshooter
Just a terrible class. The Sniper line is just too inflexible and slow, because a sniper rifle requires 2 action points to shoot. Even when you are in a good position the damage is nothing spectacular. The gun slinger line has a lot of flexibility but the damage falls off dramatically later on (although there are some good combinations, e.g. fan fire + rupture). The main problem is that besides damage he brings nothing to the table. If sniper rifles would only require one action point i would put this class next to the ranger.

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That screenshot doesn't seem really descriptive. I tend to agree with him, I don't think sharpshooters are bad per se, I think all of the classes are viable, but sharpshooters seem a lot more inflexible than the rest. They can do a lot of damage in one turn, but getting them to do so requires a lot of special setup to make it work and every other class can do a lot of damage as well with a lot less prep work (maybe not the Specialist). Again I don't think any of the classes are bad, they all work, but I'd put sharpshooters at the bottom of the heap. In my current game my sharpshooter has about half as many kills as the next lowest troop.

Wolfbeckett said:

That screenshot doesn't seem really descriptive. I tend to agree with him, I don't think sharpshooters are bad per se, I think all of the classes are viable, but sharpshooters seem a lot more inflexible than the rest. They can do a lot of damage in one turn, but getting them to do so requires a lot of special setup to make it work and every other class can do a lot of damage as well with a lot less prep work (maybe not the Specialist). Again I don't think any of the classes are bad, they all work, but I'd put sharpshooters at the bottom of the heap. In my current game my sharpshooter has about half as many kills as the next lowest troop.

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I'm doing sufficiently badly that I keep restarting campaigns after losing favoured characters or excessive numbers of missions - so I haven't yet seen too far along the tech tree - but I like the scaling in all classes. In XCOM the class weapons were such significant upgrades, and even the early abilities so important, that rookies just weren't acceptable replacements for lost soldiers after the earliest missions. All the classes start out relatively weaker in comparison this time (no rockets etc.) this time, so that the difference between squaddies and rookies isn't so pronounced and you can replace losses more readily without being completely hammered (I get completely hammered anyway, but more in terms of failing mission timers than taking heavy losses).

@PhilBowles
you can train rookies to squaddies and you often have an option to get high level characters at resistance hq for supplies or the black market for intel.

as for failing mission timers, just make sure to ignore the first few patrols and also scout ahead to the extraction zone so you can circumvent one or two additional aliens pods.

in true xcom fashion the early game is still the hardest part on the tactical layer, although it is nowhere nearly as bad as xcom1. for early game survivability just spam grenades and quickly tech to tier 2 armors. higher level soldiers with tier 2 armors can take quite a beating.

tesb said:

@PhilBowles
you can train rookies to squaddies and you often have an option to get high level characters at resistance hq for supplies or the black market for intel.

as for failing mission timers, just make sure to ignore the first few patrols and also scout ahead to the extraction zone so you can circumvent one or two additional aliens pods.

in true xcom fashion the early game is still the hardest part on the tactical layer, although it is nowhere nearly as bad as xcom1. for early game survivability just spam grenades and quickly tech to tier 2 armors. higher level soldiers with tier 2 armors can take quite a beating.

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I got bad luck with HQ recruits - only the option for scientists and engineers most of the time. I also probably built Advanced Warfare later than I should have, because I rushed Guerilla Tactics for the squad size unlock.

Quit that campaign now - once you have sergeants and squaddies facing Mutons things start to become difficult (though as I say still easier than doing the same with rookies in the first game). Lost a favourite character (he was captured, but I presume there's no way to rescue captured soldiers), then got into a mission where I inadvertently blew up half my squad, including my grenadier sergeant, by blowing up a fuel container (though it was a fun mission - whether strong or not, there's definitely a lot of fun to be had hacking enemy turrets and shutting down enemy mechs).

tesb said:

in true xcom fashion the early game is still the hardest part on the tactical layer, although it is nowhere nearly as bad as xcom1. for early game survivability just spam grenades and quickly tech to tier 2 armors. higher level soldiers with tier 2 armors can take quite a beating.

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Yeah, I like to spam grenades. In fact, I'll use them against just one advent soldier. The basic advent soldier only has 3 HP so a grenade with guarantee a kill. So, grenades are a cheap and easy way in the early game to kill the enemy.

Another useful tip is to put half of your squad on overwatch and use the other half to shot unless you are in a situation where you can easily get rid of all enemies in 1 turn. That way, you are balancing your offense and your defense. Overwatch is a great way to prevent the enemy from rushing you. It works great when you still have a lot of enemies to take care of. And if they respond with overwatch to avoid your overwatch, then just grenade them. I have used that to great effect in the early missions. I had 2 advent soldiers who both went into overwatch so instead of moving any of my guys, I just took them out with a grenade from my grenadier.

Yeah, grenades are very useful; I always make sure to utilize them if I have them equipped. It's great to blow up cover or make holes in walls to flank enemies.

I just dropped down to Veteran difficulty from Commander until I learn more of the intricacies of the game and can have a more focused gameplan. It's really helpful that troopers drop to only 3 health and can get killed with only a grenade. Though, after I complete the game for the story, then it'll be Commander/Ironman for the rest of my games (maybe I'll even be able to handle Legend some day).

I really want to see a chart which describes all the differences between the difficulties; I haven't found one yet. I may just have to dig through the files. Jake even said that he recommends Veteran to returning players and that there are "traps" on the strategy layer with Commander (tweet). Not sure what that means, perhaps more distractions and/or missions you may not be fully ready to handle and should learn to avoid?

Question: if an enemy is killed with a grenade, does that ruin any potential loot that could've dropped from them?

Some of the loot that you can attach to your weapons are great. The poison one is really useful and had that on my sharpshooter. Also, here's a tip: when you apply the poison item to you sniper gun, your pistol will also gain the benefit! EDIT: Whoops, actually, I think that poison item may have been a slot item and not a weapon attachment, now that I'm thinking about it. Never mind.

Barathor said:

Question: if an enemy is killed with a grenade, does that ruin any potential loot that could've dropped from them?

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Yes, grenades destroy any loot. That is the one downside to using them. Of course, you have to weight the pros and cons. If you are struggling in a mission and it looks like you must lose a soldier, I think it is far better to bring all our soldiers home alive and uninjured than to risk losing a soldier just to maybe get some loot, especially since loot is not guaranteed. I think a soldier is far more valuable than loot.

PhilBowles said:

I'm doing sufficiently badly that I keep restarting campaigns after losing favoured characters

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This is what I've been doing too.

I've decided to go down one difficulty level to Veteran, to just enjoy playing the game, enjoy the story etc.

One I've completed it, I plan to do at least two more complete playthroughs -- Ironman on the two higher difficulties.

ImperialGuard said:

This is what I've been doing too.

I've decided to go down one difficulty level to Veteran, to just enjoy playing the game, enjoy the story etc.

One I've completed it, I plan to do at least two more complete playthroughs -- Ironman on the two higher difficulties.

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The embarrassing thing is, the campaign I just restarted was on Veteran, having gone down from Commander. All the more embarrassing given that I routinely played the first game on Classic and have once beaten it on Impossible.

Ahhh man i think im screwed. My game has bugged out. Can someone do me a favor and load my save up and see if it works on theirs? It just seems to be stuck. Im quite far in the campaign now and dont especially want to start again. I did think it might be a risk playing on ironman. If you can get it to work can you make sure you complete the retaliation mission and not lose any of my soldiers. Then save on geoscape and return the file. If one of you can do that for me i will be eternally grateful and buy you a xmas present

I'm a bit disapointed by the game :/

It has potential but it was released in a very poor state. The performance issues and frame drops are incomprehensible considering the game is far from pretty. Hell Rise of the Tomb Raider is a lot more smooth on my computer -.-

Also is the shooting through walls and floors a feature ?

Acken said:

I'm a bit disapointed by the game :/

It has potential but it was released in a very poor state. The performance issues and frame drops are incomprehensible considering the game is far from pretty. Hell Rise of the Tomb Raider is a lot more smooth on my computer -.-

Also is the shooting through walls and floors a feature ?

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You never played the first one at release, did you? That had appalling bugs (though performance was better), and shooting through walls etc. was never wholly fixed (I haven't observed it in X-COM 2). The performance issues are irritating, but so far the only gameplay bug I've found is the flanking bug - also in X-COM 1 but eventually fixed - has returned. This is where the game doesn't always correctly register that a target is flanked.

XCOM 2 is hard.

That is what I have learned from 24 hours in it so far, and that is a very good thing. You have to plan ahead to win given that you have a limited timeframe on both the tactical and strategic maps.

However, I've noticed that there has been much popular outcry about this. Even though reviews were stellar people seem to have mixed opinions of the game, which baffles me. Do people nowadays really need their hands held that much?

ls612 said:

XCOM 2 is hard.

That is what I have learned from 24 hours in it so far, and that is a very good thing. You have to plan ahead to win given that you have a limited timeframe on both the tactical and strategic maps.

However, I've noticed that there has been much popular outcry about this. Even though reviews were stellar people seem to have mixed opinions of the game, which baffles me. Do people nowadays really need their hands held that much?

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It may just be outside the comfort zone for people used to games being relatively easy these days - go back to '90s games, not just the original X-COM games, and they are hard by today's standards. XCOM 2 seems pitched just right from what I've seen so far - not Terror from the Deep absurdity, but upping the bar from the first XCOM rather than lowering it, as seems to be traditional in sequels.

It's also possible that XCOM 2 is a bit more impenetrable than it needs to be at first - restarting the campaign, and with a better idea both of how concealment is best-used and the new tweaks to the strategic layer, it was a lot easier (right up until I tried to attack the blacksite prematurely, where I lost the squad) than on the first attempt. But while the tutorial is nicely-presented, it's ultimately a lot of tactical box-ticking ('learn this ability now, then that one') which really just retreads the original game's tutorial, without giving you the opportunity (since the mission is fully scripted) to experiment with concealment to set ambushes or bypass patrols, and without an introduction to the strategic layer.

It could have done with a fuller strategic tutorial, and an advanced features tutorial (something the first game had with Meld in the expansion), perhaps introducing melee combat and hacking - the two big new systems other than concealment. I had a lot more success with my specialists after I realised that combat drones rather than medical drones were the way to go (though I already went for haywire drones) - guaranteeing a turret kill or getting a free pistol shot on an alien you wouldn't otherwise be able to hit is surprisingly powerful. Never mind that I got caught out by fire, and ended a campaign by wiping half my squad when aiming at a previously-unseen icon that I'd thought related to a computer terminal objective and turned out to be a petrol tank. While I've read reviewers surprised when their soldiers fall through floors. Much of it's logical, and most was in the first X-COM games, but fire wasn't an environmental feature, just cosmetic, in the last game; you couldn't actively target pieces of the environment without a special ability; and you (and the floors themselves) defied gravity in traditional '90s X-COM fashion.