Fallout 4

You can buy steam cards from bestbuy, so even if they don't sell many pc games you can still get pc games off steam.

I hated the downloads thing too at first. It took me days to download skyrim cus I had crappy dsl. Literally topped out at 180kbps. Skyrim is like 8 gb? That's like 15 hours of downloading.

But now I have a 90 mbps connection. I think I could download fallout 4 in under an hour. So skipping drive to store it actually saves time at this point.
 
civvver said:
You can buy steam cards from bestbuy, so even if they don't sell many pc games you can still get pc games off steam.

I hated the downloads thing too at first. It took me days to download skyrim cus I had crappy dsl. Literally topped out at 180kbps. Skyrim is like 8 gb? That's like 15 hours of downloading.

But now I have a 90 mbps connection. I think I could download fallout 4 in under an hour. So skipping drive to store it actually saves time at this point.
Click to expand...

I have 20 mbps and it's really not such a huge deal...Most games download in about 2 to 5 hours...All of my PC games are digital, except for well, Fallout 4...I would have expected the game to be entirely available on DVD's though...
 
Owen Glyndwr said:
Click to expand...

Haha that made my day.

Or I love it when someone talks about "ignorant millennials" not knowing how to fix a car or taking a second or two to read an analog clock, then they proceed to hunt-and-peck type a Yahoo search into Internet Explorer. Then they have to make a quick call... on their flip phone...

The fact is, different generations have different skill-set biases. There's nothing wrong with it. I'm glad there are older dudes kicking around because I love asking for their help when my car breaks down :lol: ( I'm not totally hopeless with cars and I'm never afriad to get my hands dirty, but I lack refined knowledge to be sure. )
 
It might be an unpopular opinion, but any dumbing down on games is usually done to cater to the console market...I believe consoles are holding back gaming and many companies end up not putting 100% effort into creating games because of the obvious limitations of the consoles vs PCs...Like the short dialog options, the controller-oriented interface, washed up graphics, lack of V-Sync or other graphical settings...Granted, consoles are a huge part of the market and they're not going anywhere, but I think PC exclusive games would be much much more polished and great...Thank God for the modding community!
 
AlpsStranger said:
Haha that made my day.

Or I love it when someone talks about "ignorant millennials" not knowing how to fix a car or taking a second or two to read an analog clock, then they proceed to hunt-and-peck type a Yahoo search into Internet Explorer. Then they have to make a quick call... on their flip phone...

The fact is, different generations have different skill-set biases. There's nothing wrong with it. I'm glad there are older dudes kicking around because I love asking for their help when my car breaks down :lol: ( I'm not totally hopeless with cars and I'm never afriad to get my hands dirty, but I lack refined knowledge to be sure. )
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but the test scores prove it. In Detroit, only like 3% of the students can read proficiently. But I'm getting off topic here. Feel free to make a topic on off-topic. But the proof is there in the kid's test scores. Even the place I work has had poor luck with Millennials, they just aren't smart enough and responsible enough to do the job. Although to be fair, the young men we hired are doing fine (only the gay ones though), it was the young women that had the most trouble.

And yes I like the game, but I am going to hate against bad game design. Why do auto saves and hard manual saves look identical? This is bad game design. Just now I was having a hard time finding out which save was the one I wanted to load. Mainly because I was showing my gf the new game, and I had slept (which auto saves) and did some other stuff I don't really want to save. This might not be a problem if the save window was large (it takes up a small portion of my screen). This isn't dumbed down game design, just bad game design. And again I'm going to rag on this game for not being able to name my save games. We had this in the 90's. There is no excuse for this.

And like I said, I like the game. But this game could be so much better. Instead of a C- it could be an A+ if they had put forth some effort into it.

P.S. Oh, and try enabling subtitles, and talking to the minutemen for the first time. Maybe it's just me, but subtitles got all screwed up when multiple people were talking. And I'm having some weird texture issues at this excavation site. edit: hmm, I just fell through those weird textures which I think were supposed to be concrete. oh well. Anyone else have this problem at Thicket Excavations?
 
Disgustipated said:
Reduced text is dumbed down. Face it, Americans are dumb and can't read. It's just that simple. I won't get into it any more. I don't want to upset the fan boys. I just wasn't impressed with what the leader of the minutemen had to say. Maybe he'll say more later, we'll see.

The game is fun as an exploration game. So far that's the most fun I've had with it. Although it's also fun at a cinematic level. Visually the game is fun.

I think I have the building thing figured out, just not sure what to build. None of it interests me. Reminds me of the Sims. I just built the chair for Mama Murphy, and that's it for now. I can care less what these settlers do. Role play wise I should be concentrating on finding my son.

I still have to decide what to do with my perk points. I didn't get a manual with the game. And I haven't figured out how to choose perks to increase my gun skills. I only seems to get perks related to my SPECIAL stats. I'm just saving my perk points for now I guess. Until I figure out what to do with them.
Click to expand...

I don't think there's FO fanboys here on this forums, so no need to be "careful" :lol:

Anyway... Why is reduced text dumbed down? So it automatically wouldn't be dumbed down if the line the character says were displayed in full? I myself when first saw the mechanic screamed "NOOO!", because I absolutely hated mass effect model. What you were implied to say and what the character actually said sometimes was like black and white, and sometimes the choices appeared to differ but the character said absolutely the same lines.

That is not the case in FO4 as far as I experienced. Character seems to say what is implied and never said something out of place. You're always given 4 different ways to react or answer. There's a yes, a no, a maybe and further questions. Or there's an "I'm nice" reaction, "Piss off" kinda reaction, a "joker" reaction and again further questions. You may even be an annoying "always answers with questions" kinda guy / gal, which I'm guilty of way too often. A couple of NPC's even got slightly annoyed at that. Basically even when it's not "a real choice" situation you're still given a clear choice to react to that in different ways giving you even more flavor to the character. How is that not good for roleplaying? Now of course it's a matter of opinion and it's a good and valid opinion if one just wants all the available lines to be listed as before and not play the "conversation flow" game, but there is no less lines than before. Sometimes the "conversation flow" system is inconvenient when NPC's cut the conversation because the "flow" err... flowed nowhere :rolleyes:, whereas before you could just bombard the slave of your conversation until you got all lines blacked out and exit happily. Overall I think the dialogue system fits well with voiced character.

As to less text, I don't know. I was very skeptical because of ME, but it works. They're clear enough. I'm not sure if I'd like to read them and then hear them read again out loud by the character. It's not about being lazy, it just seems redundant.

The perks are directly dependent on SPECIAL. You may only acquire up to level 5 agility perks if your agility is 5. So if your intelligence is 1, say goodbye to hacking anything more complicated than "novice" and everything else in intelligence perk tree. One of the best changes I think. Makes the SPECIAL that much more special. Only downside and the fun ruiner in this system is you can actually spend your perks to increase your SPECIAL, boo!
 
I don't get why games would have to be dumbed down for consoles though, like they don't believe the console gamer wants a sophisticated game?

For a long time graphics were held back by consoles cus 360 and ps3 weren't anywhere close to what a pc could put out, but now the one and ps4 are relatively close so it's not so far off... for now. In 2 more years there will be a huge gap again.

And I can't stand the native menus in skyrim for example, clearly made for consoles. Many games you just gotta suck it up and use a controller cus that's how they're designed like the batman arkham series.

But why should the gameplay be dumbed down and why are consoles to blame? That part doesn't really jive with me, unless it's a cut and paste series that comes out every 6 months like call of duty and assassin's creed, then I get it cus it's to push a release schedule and a franchise and sell quantity over quality. But fallout 4 took a while to come out, why dumb it down for consoles? Doesn't really make logical sense. Thus I don't think they do it on purpose for consoles, I think it just happens in general. PC games seem dumbed down compared to their predecessors too (see civ5).
 
civvver said:
I don't get why games would have to be dumbed down for consoles though, like they don't believe the console gamer wants a sophisticated game?

For a long time graphics were held back by consoles cus 360 and ps3 weren't anywhere close to what a pc could put out, but now the one and ps4 are relatively close so it's not so far off... for now. In 2 more years there will be a huge gap again.

And I can't stand the native menus in skyrim for example, clearly made for consoles. Many games you just gotta suck it up and use a controller cus that's how they're designed like the batman arkham series.

But why should the gameplay be dumbed down and why are consoles to blame? That part doesn't really jive with me, unless it's a cut and paste series that comes out every 6 months like call of duty and assassin's creed, then I get it cus it's to push a release schedule and a franchise and sell quantity over quality. But fallout 4 took a while to come out, why dumb it down for consoles? Doesn't really make logical sense. Thus I don't think they do it on purpose for consoles, I think it just happens in general. PC games seem dumbed down compared to their predecessors too (see civ5).
Click to expand...
My experience with all sorts of entertainment and media is that as the intended audience gets bigger, the less challenging or inventive the product is. It's a "lowest common denominator" thing. Sometimes, the lowest common denominator can turn out to be surprisingly high. Other times, something that was expecting a smaller audience finds a big one. But for the most part, pop music, network television shows, blockbuster movies, and mass-market novels trend towards the mediocre. I don't own a gaming console, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if those games follow the same pattern.
 
Mustakrakish said:
I don't think there's FO fanboys here on this forums, so no need to be "careful" :lol:

Anyway... Why is reduced text dumbed down? So it automatically wouldn't be dumbed down if the line the character says were displayed in full? I myself when first saw the mechanic screamed "NOOO!", because I absolutely hated mass effect model. What you were implied to say and what the character actually said sometimes was like black and white, and sometimes the choices appeared to differ but the character said absolutely the same lines.

That is not the case in FO4 as far as I experienced. Character seems to say what is implied and never said something out of place. You're always given 4 different ways to react or answer. There's a yes, a no, a maybe and further questions. Or there's an "I'm nice" reaction, "Piss off" kinda reaction, a "joker" reaction and again further questions. You may even be an annoying "always answers with questions" kinda guy / gal, which I'm guilty of way too often. A couple of NPC's even got slightly annoyed at that. Basically even when it's not "a real choice" situation you're still given a clear choice to react to that in different ways giving you even more flavor to the character. How is that not good for roleplaying? Now of course it's a matter of opinion and it's a good and valid opinion if one just wants all the available lines to be listed as before and not play the "conversation flow" game, but there is no less lines than before. Sometimes the "conversation flow" system is inconvenient when NPC's cut the conversation because the "flow" err... flowed nowhere :rolleyes:, whereas before you could just bombard the slave of your conversation until you got all lines blacked out and exit happily. Overall I think the dialogue system fits well with voiced character.

As to less text, I don't know. I was very skeptical because of ME, but it works. They're clear enough. I'm not sure if I'd like to read them and then hear them read again out loud by the character. It's not about being lazy, it just seems redundant.

The perks are directly dependent on SPECIAL. You may only acquire up to level 5 agility perks if your agility is 5. So if your intelligence is 1, say goodbye to hacking anything more complicated than "novice" and everything else in intelligence perk tree. One of the best changes I think. Makes the SPECIAL that much more special. Only downside and the fun ruiner in this system is you can actually spend your perks to increase your SPECIAL, boo!
Click to expand...

Can you improve Special attributes throughout the game (not counting bobbleheads)? And the magazines don't actually improve Special attributes, right? It's more like some other bonus, is it permanent?

And what constitutes automatic weapons? The 10mm being similar to a .45 auto should be automatic right? Are they referring to automatic pistols or automatic fire?

I can't seem to find any weapon perks except the one about automatic and non automatic weapons. I'm still deciding what would be best for my character. No idea atm.

I may have made a mistake by making my Intelligence so high. I'm so used to the old way. But there are some interesting intelligence perks I may get in the future. But my charisma is so low I can't pass any speech checks (even with some clothing boosters). LOL. Oh well, you live and learn I guess.

As for dialogue, I'm not far enough in to know for sure if it's dumbed down or not (I'm comparing it to Fallout 3 since it wouldn't be fair to compare it to New Vegas). But so far the humor is lacking. The sarcastic options weren't very funny. I'm hoping later in the game there are funny responses like the ones you could tell Moira when she has you do so much crazy stuff. EDIT: okay, I found one funny line. Listen dumb..., that's not how baseball was played. It's hard to find the funny lines with these options...

I actually don't mind the loss of weapon repairs and all that. Although weapon repairs weren't bad, it's armor repairs that were more annoying in New Vegas. I'm not sure it really added anything to the game. But hopefully they bring back ammo crafting. I didn't use it much, but it was nice sometimes.

Oh there was one funny thing in the game. Dogmeat was carrying one of my pistols in his mouth. Not sure if that's an intended game feature or not. It may have been lying on a dead enemy.
 
I don't know the specific differences between automatic and non-automatic weapons, but you'll find out that you can raise your SPECIAL stats the moment you first go to the perks screen. I know that I started with Int 6 for my first character and it really wasn't a problem.
 
I'm starting to get pleasantly surprised by this game. You can say I'm a hater, but I just like to go in with low expectations, and have the game turn out better than I expected. I'm still disappointed in the dialogue system, but I am impressed with the quest Diamond City Blues and the multiple paths to solve this quest. Something you don't see in RPG's much anymore. It's certainly better than in a game like Mass Effect. Far too often these days what qualifies as role play is "Do you accept this Quest Yes/No". So it's nice to see something more in depth. I also like the background story Piper told me. Hopefully she has more dialogue in the future. Bethesda did make a significant improvement in companions. :thumbsup:
 
Disgustipated said:
I'm starting to get pleasantly surprised by this game. You can say I'm a hater, but I just like to go in with low expectations, and have the game turn out better than I expected. I'm still disappointed in the dialogue system, but I am impressed with the quest Diamond City Blues and the multiple paths to solve this quest. Something you don't see in RPG's much anymore. It's certainly better than in a game like Mass Effect. Far too often these days what qualifies as role play is "Do you accept this Quest Yes/No". So it's nice to see something more in depth. I also like the background story Piper told me. Hopefully she has more dialogue in the future. Bethesda did make a significant improvement in companions. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

There's a mod that shows you all of the dialog options, kind of like Fallout 3's system...Enjoy!
 
Basically any weapon, pistols included can be made automatic. So if you put an automatic mod on your 10mm it will become / be constituted as automatic weapon. If you say take pipe pistol and put a rifle stock on it, it will become a rifle and rifleman perk will apply, etc. And so you have 3 (i believe) different perks you can invest to, rifles (single shot = semi-automatic, bolt action), automatic (assault rifles, submachine and automatic pistols) and pistols (As long as they remain pistols and not become "rifles" or "automatic").

You can indeed upgrade your SPECIAL stats everytime you level up. You may choose to spend a perk to increase the stat (the top of the tree = 0 level of the tree). I thought really careful what perks I'm gonna need and what fits my style before choosing my SPECIAL so I wouldn't have to spend perks on them and so my SPECIAL came to be (with future +1 bobbleheads in mind) 1.4.1.5.3.9.5. and the end goal with bobbleheads and "You're special" book is 2.6.2.6.4.10.6.

Gun nut is a must have for double the fun I think, thankfully for me it only needs intelligence 3 :p, but if your intelligence is high enough I recommend taking the scrapper perk getting all those screws etc from braking down weapons. It will make your life easier. I did find the armorer perk to be quite redundant for me, glad I didn't spend precious stats on useless strenght. Sure I can't craft high tier armor myself but I'm more than capable of reverse engineering them and applying on my armor (same with weapons) whenever I find those in the wastes. :p
 
EgonSpengler said:
My experience with all sorts of entertainment and media is that as the intended audience gets bigger, the less challenging or inventive the product is. It's a "lowest common denominator" thing. Sometimes, the lowest common denominator can turn out to be surprisingly high. Other times, something that was expecting a smaller audience finds a big one. But for the most part, pop music, network television shows, blockbuster movies, and mass-market novels trend towards the mediocre. I don't own a gaming console, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if those games follow the same pattern.
Click to expand...
You're, sadly, exactly spot-on.
 
EgonSpengler said:
My experience with all sorts of entertainment and media is that as the intended audience gets bigger, the less challenging or inventive the product is. It's a "lowest common denominator" thing. Sometimes, the lowest common denominator can turn out to be surprisingly high. Other times, something that was expecting a smaller audience finds a big one. But for the most part, pop music, network television shows, blockbuster movies, and mass-market novels trend towards the mediocre. I don't own a gaming console, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if those games follow the same pattern.
Click to expand...

Mass marketed, AAA games don't have to be mediocre. The best ones manage to cater to many audiences - they have a basic game that is easy to learn and can be completed in a reasonable amount of time by a mediocre gamer, but then there are deeper layers that are rich with content and challenge for people who want more.

It's just laziness that leads to a truly mediocre game, whether it's AAA or not.
 
It's lazyness that makes AAA games truly mediocre, but it's expected features that make them not nearly as good as they could be because they make the game look better in trailers but don't improve it. Voice acting is a very good example. I really dislike the trend towards fully voiced protagonist as it makes every line that much more expensive and the cost is compensated for with fewer dialogue options. It's OK in games with a protagonists with established identities (Mass Effect or The Witcher), but I hated it in Dragon Age 2 and Inquisition and I think it has no place in a Bethesda RPG.
 
As far as I know there's no fewer dialogue options. IIRC reading somewhere there's more than in previous titles.
 
What I really don't like is how dense they made the map. It doesn't feel like "wasteland" at all. It feels like overpopulated slums, is what it feels like. I can't make two steps without discovering another location. And you would think that "hey, that's great right? No more useless space!"... but as with anything and everything, you CAN go overboard. It's like they're thinking that an average gamer won't be able to consentrate if gods forbit they'll have to make a few steps in any direction without running into something.

Now I don't mind at all fighting off and clearing a couple of raider encampments on my way from town to town, but it goes completely ridiculous in the city area. You clear one outpost, and there's another one right there on the other side of the road or in the next house. Not exaggerating. At one point two raider encampments were seperated with just a fence. It goes completelly comical when I stumbled on two location simultanously, two buildings with just a narrow road seperating those, in one raiders, in another mutants... and it gets better, there are patrols on the roofs of both buildings overlooking each other with a pistols range. Peaceful coexistense I guess. :rolleyes: Mind blown. Facepalmed so bad almost hurt myself.

When I encountered 55th encampment of raiders having moved... well a block maybe... Half? I thought screw it I will circle around it... to encounter another 2.

I just wonder from suspense of disbelief point of view, how the hell they manage to rob any damn caravans etc. when there's not a single 5x5 meters worth of space not occupied by raiders, mutants, ferals... There's literally 1000 raiders per single random unnamed NPC. How any "victim" even reaches the "area of operations" of gangs inside this cluster*peep*...

Never in history of me playing bethesda sandbox did I spend more time shooting / slashing with a sword than I did... well walking... exploring. It's not exploring when you're constantly shooting. There's basically no point in even lowering your weapon, easier to just... OMG... they DID make an FPS...
 
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