Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Once again, Pikes will be good for absorbing shots (I haven't checked, but I'm assuming Keshik ranged attacks are less effective against them), but it seems horsemen are better for attacking.
I would never counter with pikes...Rather counter with own horsemen.
I think the Mongols are just fine - they pack a mean punch in an era - but dont come close to the über nation of China - which bonusses last them the entire game.
They are the free DLC with which you should have been updated 2 hours ago, if you were online.
Don't forget that Khan adds 1 movement to mounted units, so I guess that means Khesik are 6 moves. I we thought Champions cavs were tough. I have not gotten to that point yet.
Mongols are NOT overpowered.
Why? Because combat is far and away the easiest part of the game. Are Keshik and Khans *cool*? Sure. Are they significantly more overpowered than knights? Maybe.
Doesn't change the fact that two knights, a swordsman and a trebuchet or two are more than sufficient to take out even the nastiest renaissance-era armies.
IMO the only civs that are really overpowered right now are ones that get significant economic advantages, since that's the only part of the game that's truly competitive with the AI. I think Arabia is OP, because they just make ICS even more broken with their bonus to trade route gold AND the bazaar gives you more luxury resources to sell. Civs with good cheap low-level buildings (China, Egypt) and gonzo economic UAs (Persia, Babylon, Siam) are the standouts imo.
I look at it this way: an overpowered military civ makes the game a tiny bit faster and possibly more fun. An overpowered economic civ might not make the game any more fun, but they can make it a LOT faster.
Exactly.
Also, this. I didn't say the Mongols deserved to be overpowered, but it does make sense for them to get bonuses for military and especially mounted military. They're not suited for a peaceful game or cultural victory, for example.
It's why I asked about comparing the Keshik to the Camel Archer. I think the Keshik is better, but I think they're comparable. Also, the Arab Unique Building is better than the Khan, imo. Arabs aren't even considered the top tier of Civs for most people, from what I gather.
A crossbowman with 5 movement points? I feel sorry for cities that have nothing but plains and grasslands surrounding it.
Just finished playing a 8 civ match while on King difficulty, and all I had to do was make 2 keshik and about 4 horseman. Too bad the AIs is still a pushover without having the mongols.
Keshik is nice, but I couldn't take over cities with it. I still had to build a swordsman to take over enemy city. They are quite powerful and fun, but you are a warmonger, you should've been attacking with horseman already, it takes a while to get keshik in comparison and once it's out, ouch for the enemy.
Thormodr, why do you think the Mongol music is average? Personally I think it's among the top 2 most beautiful leader themes. It's very moving and harmonic, imo. Certainly less clunky-sounding than Civ 4's Genghis theme, which was based on the Mongolian national anthem. To be fair though, they only really get good around the 3 minute mark, for both peace and war.
Out of curiosity, I emailed Geoff Knorr yesterday about Mongolia's music. He said he composed it, and that it's based on a traditional Mongolian long song.
And yes, the Khan does seem to be bugged. I'd agree Mongolia isn't OP. At the moment I'd say the real problem is just cavalry in general, and how they stomp things or get stomped in ONE HIT (or close to) most of the time, just like how infantry insta-kill archers when they attack, which I think is to make up for the fact that archers can do substantial damage from range. A bit clunky, and it can lead to unbalanced battles. :S
The main thing about Mongolia which is powerful in 5 is the Keshik, as it gains double XP by default and generates Khans at double the usual rate, in addition to having uber movement. The UA actually kinda sucks imo--an early city-state captured is nice, but really only helps if you're serving a hostile CS that wanted that CS eliminated. And even then this only helps a little bit, as the CSes might all turn on you for warmongering.
Well, the Civ 5 version lacks vocals. What else did you feel was missing? Out of curiosity. I looked up "Mongolian long song" on youtube just today and was astounded by what I found. :OI just found the Mongol music to be average. Hearing some beautiful music when I was in Mongolia and hearing a private concert from the most famous morin khuur (Horsehead fiddle) player in Mongolia (He can sure play for being over 80 years old) I was hoping to recapture that magical feeling somewhat.