DRM Tolerance

What DRM do you find acceptable? Pick one or more options.

  • No DRM (Open Source, Donationware, et cetera)

    Votes: 151 62.9%

  • CD-Check (CD-Key, CD in drive, the majority of CD games)

    Votes: 173 72.1%

  • One-Time Registration (Impulse, many Indie games)

    Votes: 133 55.4%

  • Login-Based (Steam, GameTap)

    Votes: 85 35.4%

  • Registry-Based (SecuROM, Starforce)

    Votes: 15 6.3%

  • DRM not listed here, including user ideas (Post)

    Votes: 8 3.3%
  • Total voters
    240
  • Poll closed .
Actually, patches and bug fixes shouldn't require DRM checks either, since they are fixing the broken product that was released.

It's like buying a broken lawnmower from the store, but when they finally decide to fix it for you; they require that you have cable TV before they will do it. In Steam case though, they require you have cable TV before you can purchase it in the first place.

Whereas, Ubisoft forces you to have your cable TV on while you use your lawnmower.
 
DRM doesn't bother me too much. But my internet can be iffy at times. And I would like a game I can play if my internet is down (I pretty much gave up on mmo's due to bad internet). All I'm asking is to not turn the Civ series into an MMO.

That said, I understand the need to protect their investment and make money. Making money on computer games isn't a sure thing. Many companies go under. Microprose went under. They made many fantastic games.
 
Sir Ralph said:
I admit I have been one of them. What's wrong with Starforce? I personally had never any problem with it. My computer didn't explode and everything worked fine. I frankly don't care what problems others had with it, most of those probably exist only between customer's chair and keyboard. I prefer Starforce over Steam any day.

2K Games, you should listen to your customers. Trash that deal with Valve and release Civ5 with Starforce. Please!
Click to expand...

You do realize that Starforce is a rootkit, right? It's the equivalent of putting a virus or worm on your computer. If the virus is written well, you won't notice.

Starforce, like other viruses, disables parts of your computer so it won't be detected.
 
Most antivirus programs (if not all) cannot remove a rootkit, without further steps being taken, such as using special utilities to run before windows boots up.

Although Starforce sounds nice, like some kind of Star Wars "May the force be with you" kind of thing, it is really the equivalent of putting Darth Vader and Maul on your HDD.
 
Shurdus said:
Not only is that in poor taste, it is not needed. Shame. What makes it worse is that you are good with words, and that you could have chosen a tasteful way - no pun intended - of poking me.
Click to expand...

Dude, I wasn't serious. Note the smiley. It was a joke. No intent to offend.
 
deanej said:
You do realize that Starforce is a rootkit, right? It's the equivalent of putting a virus or worm on your computer. If the virus is written well, you won't notice.

Starforce, like other viruses, disables parts of your computer so it won't be detected.
Click to expand...

Really? A virus? And what evil or destructive code is hidden within it, that would make it a virus? Does it delete my harddisk after a time? Does it phish my passwords? Does it encrypt my data and force me to pay ransom? Or what else is so evil about it?
 
Malware is pretty much any thing that hooks itself in your computer and interferes with its operation. In the case of Starforce (and SecuROM too), this includes forcing your disc drive to operate in ways not intended by the manufacturer, disabling programs like Process Explorer and Nero, and modifying Windows (and probably your AV software) to avoid detection.
 
Furthermore, Starforce:

-Disables any and all support for SCSI devices if an IDE CD-ROM drive is detected.
-Instantly reboots if an attempt to copy something to CD that it "thinks" that is illegal is detected. (of course the "thinks" fails sometimes and auto reboots when nothing illegal's actually happening)

This is the evil or destructive code that is hidden within it, and is only the beginning.
 
tom2050 said:
Most antivirus programs (if not all) cannot remove a rootkit, without further steps being taken, such as using special utilities to run before windows boots up.
Click to expand...

No, you're not completly right.
Rootkits are made for hiding, and most can't be detected by a standard free antivirus.


btw i have voted for the registry based DRM.
I know, i have Securom on my system.
I don't like, to have it here.
But as long as it doesn't phone home, i can live with it.

Haven't had any issues with my system since it has been there, and i use some of the mentioned programs and also some more, which can be "evil".
But i guess, that depends on the system itself.
 
The_J said:
No, you're not completly right.
Click to expand...

What's not right? Most, if not all Anti-Virus programs (Norton, etc) will completely miss a rootkit. One needs specialized anti rootkit software to remove them. I left my statement vague purposefully.

-------

Still though, it amazes me that people actually go out of their way to defend things like DRM. It's like defending malware (Steamware) because it's better than a rootkit (Starforce).
 
I never had any problems with my drives and I surely have SecuROM and likely Starforce too. I don't have SCSI drives, so the problem described (if true which I can't be bothered to verify) is a non-issue for me. I don't have unprovoked reboots either, but then, I'm not a software pirate and the only stuff I occasionally burn on discs is my own data. Sorry, but neither SecuROM nor StarForce bother me one bit long as they do quietly what they're supposed to do. However I do have a problem with programs that force themselves into my face and permanently phone home what games I use how many hours and what system I am running.
 
I had SecuRom on my system before I finally got rid of it permanently, the game it came with still works fine.
 
Steam has been my only platform, I really made the jump to heavy PC gaming when I got my XPS M1530 a couple years ago. I got Steam immediatly afterward and it actually helps my games run more smoothly, because there is no CD for my computer to spin, my laptop stays a lot cooler. I just hate having CDs, I use to have Tiberian Sun and I accidentally rolled my chair's wheel over the Nod disk and I was stuck playing as GDI. I've never had luck with CDs on consoles either so I don't trust myself with anything else.

I like Steam, in fact I am a Steam fanboy(if there is such a thing), but thats because its actually made me staying connected with friends much easier. I hate how some people think its some evil looming Big Brother waiting to pounce and we're talking about one of the most mod friendly, community friendly, and accepting developers of any of them. I've use most DRMs except for SecuRom and Starforce(Because THAT I don't trust), and I have to say that Steam was the easiest.

But then again, I liked Half Life Blueshift and liked Resistance 2's storyline. Apparently those are taboo for most fans of those series of games so I'm guessing I'm an odd one out on many things I guess.
 
arstal said:
Dude, I wasn't serious. Note the smiley. It was a joke. No intent to offend.
Click to expand...
Oh ok then. You posted a smiley, so then you are excused. No harm done. You weren't serious. You said ^_^.

You sir, are a nice person. I like you a lot. If you get the feeling that I respect you no more than I would respect a hairball clogging the shower drain, you are mistaken. My respect for you is endless and immeasurable. ^_^
 
I'm just as capable of being an :):):):):):):) online as anyone else, maybe more capable.

I just don't do it here as much, because Civ players rile me up less then fighting game players.
 
RockingKraut said:
I like Steam, in fact I am a Steam fanboy(if there is such a thing), but thats because its actually made me staying connected with friends much easier. I hate how some people think its some evil looming Big Brother waiting to pounce and we're talking about one of the most mod friendly, community friendly, and accepting developers of any of them. I've use most DRMs except for SecuRom and Starforce(Because THAT I don't trust), and I have to say that Steam was the easiest.
Click to expand...
The basic idea behind this, imo, isnt so much that it is Steam persay…but that it is a required element to play the game versus being an 'option'. That many are happy loading a 3rd party program onto their rigs is a given and more power to em, and same goes for those who love Steam (such as yourself). There are just as many out there that are not quite so willing to have it and don't want it…but given the current set up that they have opted to go with, we get no choice. For me….that is the real issue…not that it is Steam…that I was not provided the CHOICE whether I wanted a 3rd party program to run a primarily single person game. The only 'choice' I was given was to buy the game or not because they demand that I load said 3rd party program that I have no desire to have…and I WANT to play the game…really really do…but given the 3rd party program required it becomes a No-Sale for me…and this makes me sad. :(~
 
Vordrax said:
Every form of DRM on that list (except "No DRM" and, unless there's a small case I can't think of right now, the Registry-based DRMs, but they tend to be attached to CD-checks as well) can affect your ability to play it after purchasing. CD-checks could prevent you from reinstalling or playing if you lose or damage the CD or the CD-key. Registration could prevent you from reinstalling if you lose the account. Login could prevent you from reinstalling or playing in the same case.
Click to expand...

True, and in fact I had to repurchase Civ IV Gold because of a crack that developed in my original CD. So CD checks are probably my least favorite based on that experience. Probably a one-time online registration is most benign for me because I don't tend to lose accounts.

But the overall issue for me is this. Is stumbling over DRM a corner case, where it's a minor occasional inconvenience, or am I constantly having to enter or recover information. Or does the DRM have side effects on my machine's performance/security/stability? I don't think those are necessarily so much a function of the underlying mechanism as it is of how well that mechanism is implemented by the particular DRM vendor.

So for example, I've had bad experiences in the past with SecuROM, and probably wouldn't buy a game if I knew that were the underlying DRM. But that doesn't mean I'd avoid another "registry-based" technology.
 
duckstab said:
a one-time online registration is most benign for me
Click to expand...

For me (and for most people, I think), it would be closer to the truth to call it the least malign.
 
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