Anybody Else Worried About Purchasing Civ5 On Release?

Mainly @ deanej

Unless it was clearly infringing on someone's copyright, I would argue against any modder having his or her mod barred from CFC just because it was frowned upon by some people.

Do you frown upon the project freeciv?

If you buy DLC you're paying for content that you get to use. You're not paying for the right to refuse all others (who don't buy the DLC) of having a similar game experience with a mod. It will be a sad day IMO when I hear people saying things along the lines of "You didn't pay for Babylon DLC so you should not play a Babylon mod". DLC - something pushed on us by the publisher - causing gamers to turn against each other. A haves and have nots divide.

Aramel said:

That is not what is happening. You will note that the steak comes with everything it used to come with. The fries are still there, as is the salad, as is the water. And it is all the same price. However, today the restaurant has started offering shrimp along with the steak, for an additional price. In response, you storm out of the restaurant in a fit of rage. Do you see what is wrong with this picture?

Civ4 had 18 civs. Civ5 will also have 18 civs, but there is also shrimp you can buy. And this is an outrage?

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This appears foolproof, but it is not quite.

I enjoyed the steaks at that restaurant, but after around 6 years, it began to get boring. I began to crave shrimp more and more, along with the steak.

Now, a new option: 18oz steak, huge basket of fries, deluxe ceasar salad and premium water for $49.99 .

Option: Add 1 pcs coconut shrimp +$10.

See the issue? People naturally want an improvement of something if they are going to think of buying it. Example: I myself enjoy the larger steak and the better quality amenities, but, I wanted an improvement, the shrimp. The problem is, the improvement not only has a fee tacked onto it, but it is puny. One piece of shrimp?

I feel like I'm rambling on, so I'll end it here.

Would you pay $59.99 for the standard addition of Civ5, which would include 21 civs (Steam+D2D)? Or, would you rather wait, become confused, and try to determine the "best deal" of the (5? 6? 10? 20?) DLC available to you?

Well as a purchaser, or lack thereof, of DLC on the 360 for many different games I believe many of the PC only civ players here are missing some crucial knowledge of DLC. It becomes free usually 3-6 months after it comes out. Most of the time unless it's a mind blowing offer it's best to just enjoy your game and be patient until said time that it becomes free. I have yet to see DLC offered through any service for that matter be it Live or Steam (someone correct this if they have knowledge of said DLC) that at some point in the future it did not become free. As for if you are able to unlock the DLC civs through mods I would have to be skeptical on this as it would defeat the purpose of DLC in the first place when everyone downloads all DLC civs in a mod in the first few hours after the games released. Which I have no doubt someone will do if that is a possibility given the exceptional mod community we enjoy with our civ games.

CiV looks to be another incredible game and I will wait to see the offers of DLC to see if any are worth it but I have absolutely no problem waiting for them to be free if one of the offers isn't enticing enough. As for if by some chance CiV is one of the few games to not offer DLC free at some point down the road I am fairly sure I will be content enjoying the game without it as much as those who are enjoying it with the DLC. I would also hope that no one would be ridiculous enough to decide to not play CiV if it turns out to be great based solely on not getting certain DLC.

The people not wanting to get it due to Steam have a much much better argument as to why they do not want to buy CiV even though I feel much of what I have read as to why is a bit paranoid as pertaining to privacy and whatnot. I harbor absolutely no ill will towards any publisher or developer doing DLC as it is optional and while zero day DLC is a bit tacky the added proceeds do contribute to more, and better, DLC in the future. I think most people should learn to live with what they have and stop worrying about others that paid 10$ for a civ and map and stop and think that maybe you got the better deal at least on that front. Remember thou shalt not covet .

Aramel said:

That is not what is happening. You will note that the steak comes with everything it used to come with. The fries are still there, as is the salad, as is the water. And it is all the same price. However, today the restaurant has started offering shrimp along with the steak, for an additional price. In response, you storm out of the restaurant in a fit of rage. Do you see what is wrong with this picture?

Civ4 had 18 civs. Civ5 will also have 18 civs, but there is also shrimp you can buy. And this is an outrage?

Click to expand...

Just wait until all you wanted was the steak with baked potato, side salad, and an add on shrimp but one restaurant only lets you have fries (no baked potato) and the other restaurant across town lets you have the baked potato but you can only add fried cod instead of the shrimp. You'd really like a Coke with that, but both of these restaurants only serve Pepsi.

But wait.........the entire deal is a limited time only! You can't get the add on shrimp unless you order by this Thursday. However, if you do order by this Thursday, every time you come in the restaurant you can add on the shrimp. The restaurant with the baked potato decides it will only sell baked potatoes on Fridays.

It gets better, though. You finally find a restaurant that gets most of your options correct, but they've decided that too many people are walking out without paying. So now you order a 12 oz steak, but you have to call the waiter over to bring you 1 oz at a time. They'd also like to turn those tables over faster, so you only get to eat the steak you paid for if you eat it all in a 20 minute period. You can, of course, stay longer, but you have to pay for a new steak.

I pre-ordered from Steam last night. The extra £10 for the extra's offered in the £39.99 (pre order price) just don't seem worth it to me, and I'll bet my left nut that we'll be able to buy the "important" extras (such as civs and maps) as extras at a later date for less than a tenner.

I just went with the £29.99 basic version...seems like the best deal for me and hopefully I'll get it downloaded and ready to play on the day of purchase.

I am going to wander in here, and places like here, two days after release and see if there are more people smoking cigars and sipping brandy in the General Discussion forum or more people burning effigies on the Tech Support boards. Based on that I will make a decision on when (not if) to buy.

DLC? Bought lots of DLC for other games, so for this one, as the others, I’ll look at on a case by case basis.

Brophog said:

Just wait until all you wanted was the steak with baked potato, side salad, and an add on shrimp but one restaurant only lets you have fries (no baked potato) and the other restaurant across town lets you have the baked potato but you can only add fried cod instead of the shrimp. You'd really like a Coke with that, but both of these restaurants only serve Pepsi.

But wait.........the entire deal is a limited time only! You can't get the add on shrimp unless you order by this Thursday. However, if you do order by this Thursday, every time you come in the restaurant you can add on the shrimp. The restaurant with the baked potato decides it will only sell baked potatoes on Fridays.

It gets better, though. You finally find a restaurant that gets most of your options correct, but they've decided that too many people are walking out without paying. So now you order a 12 oz steak, but you have to call the waiter over to bring you 1 oz at a time. They'd also like to turn those tables over faster, so you only get to eat the steak you paid for if you eat it all in a 20 minute period. You can, of course, stay longer, but you have to pay for a new steak.

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I'm not really sure what most of these things are supposed to metaphorically represent. The only preorder bonuses are the map packs, and I can't really understand someone getting bent out of shapes about that. Anything else should be available no matter where or when you buy the game.

Akkon888 said:

This appears foolproof, but it is not quite.

I enjoyed the steaks at that restaurant, but after around 6 years, it began to get boring. I began to crave shrimp more and more, along with the steak.

Now, a new option: 18oz steak, huge basket of fries, deluxe ceasar salad and premium water for $49.99 .

Option: Add 1 pcs coconut shrimp +$10.

See the issue? People naturally want an improvement of something if they are going to think of buying it. Example: I myself enjoy the larger steak and the better quality amenities, but, I wanted an improvement, the shrimp. The problem is, the improvement not only has a fee tacked onto it, but it is puny. One piece of shrimp?

I feel like I'm rambling on, so I'll end it here.

Would you pay $59.99 for the standard addition of Civ5, which would include 21 civs (Steam+D2D)? Or, would you rather wait, become confused, and try to determine the "best deal" of the (5? 6? 10? 20?) DLC available to you?

Click to expand...

You might have a point there if Civ5 wasn't already full of new features, or if $10 was an unusual price for DLC. $10 is actually pretty typical, I think.

To get back to the original point of the thread, of course you might be able to save some money if you wait a while before buying Civ5. The same is true for every other game, including Civ4; eventually they offer some kind of sale or bundle. You might pay more if you buy the game at release but you'll have been able to play it longer than the person who waited for a better deal. I don't see the point in stressing out about it so much.

Aramel said:

I'm not really sure what most of these things are supposed to metaphorically represent. The only preorder bonuses are the map packs, and I can't really understand someone getting bent out of shapes about that. Anything else should be available no matter where or when you buy the game.

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Babylon and DLC. As for the map packs, it wouldn't be so bad if someone buying later could get them free or really cheap; pre-order bonuses basically amount to extortion to get consumers to buy with incomplete information IMO.

2K Greg said:

I'm not sure if this number can be easily raised in lua or if it would require a source code modification to change; I'll look in to that.

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So away from python and in to Lua!? Do the very very very happy dance. Looks like I will be modding for Civ V

deanej said:

Babylon and DLC. As for the map packs, it wouldn't be so bad if someone buying later could get them free or really cheap; pre-order bonuses basically amount to extortion to get consumers to buy with incomplete information IMO.

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Extortion: The obtaining of property from another induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right.

It's really not. Or do you think the infomercials on TV are extorting you when they offer to throw in this loofah for free if you call now?

Hint: you'll probably be able to get the map packs after release. It's called the internet.

Aramel said:

Hint: you'll probably be able to get the map packs after release. It's called the internet.

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It's also called piracy.

You and I have very different views on corporations and selling. To me, the corporation has a duty to provide an enjoyable, complete game for all who buy it. You probably think that the only duty in the whole affair is for the consumer to pay up. While I concede that it's not extortion to the letter of the definition, it's extortion in spirit - they're trying to get you to purchase the game without knowing all the facts instead of doing the rational choice of waiting until everything is known.

Not getting until a Mac version comes out.

deanej said:

It's also called piracy.

You and I have very different views on corporations and selling. To me, the corporation has a duty to provide an enjoyable, complete game for all who buy it. You probably think that the only duty in the whole affair is for the consumer to pay up. While I concede that it's not extortion to the letter of the definition, it's extortion in spirit - they're trying to get you to purchase the game without knowing all the facts instead of doing the rational choice of waiting until everything is known.

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The problem I have with your 'extortion' argument is that you have two months to make your final decision. Now if the game was being released tomorrow or even in a week's time, I'd find your point more convincing.

And information is going to remain incomplete until after release. I refuse to buy based on marketing hype alone. I don't have the issue with civ5 specifically, but with the entire industry. The only time I ever bought a game within a couple months of release was BtS (just BtS; Warlords and vanilla had the usual lag).

Anyways, I've already decided that I'm waiting for a complete version because of all the DLC. I barely have enough time for modding, FFH, and RFC as it is; don't need to add civ5 to the mix right now.

To me, the corporation has a duty to provide an enjoyable, complete game for all who buy it.

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But that's just it! The game will be enjoyable on release, even without any map packs or DLC. Unless somehow the knowledge that other people have these things will ruin the game for you. Still, even if it did, I don't think you could blame Firaxis for that.

Aramel said:

But that's just it! The game will be enjoyable on release, even without any map packs or DLC. Unless somehow the knowledge that other people have these things will ruin the game for you. Still, even if it did, I don't think you could blame Firaxis for that.

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Put another way: Was the game 'incomplete' before they announced DLC? Why should an extra civ make or break a game for you?

Aramel said:

But that's just it! The game will be enjoyable on release, even without any map packs or DLC. Unless somehow the knowledge that other people have these things will ruin the game for you. Still, even if it did, I don't think you could blame Firaxis for that.

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You're ignoring the complete part. Yes, for some of us, complete means more than just the engine works and that the game is playable.

deanej said:

You're ignoring the complete part. Yes, for some of us, complete means more than just the engine works and that the game is playable.

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So was Civ 4 not "complete" until Warlords or BTS came out? You're trying to say that the game isn't complete unless 100% of all content ever is in it. Why buy Civ 4 if you'll be 'forced' to buy expansion packs later? It's the same situation on a larger scale.

bjbrains said:

So was Civ 4 not "complete" until Warlords or BTS came out? You're trying to say that the game isn't complete unless 100% of all content ever is in it. Why buy Civ 4 if you'll be 'forced' to buy expansion packs later? It's the same situation on a larger scale.

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Except:
A. The content in Warlords and BtS was not even conceived of at the time vanilla was released.
B. The expansions offer better value for your money.
C. There are only two expansions, compared with what will likely be dozens of pieces of DLC.

Put in terms your brain can understand, the expansions don't fail a cost-benefit analysis the way DLC does. You also get a standard version that everyone has at any given time (because nobody plays vanilla and Warlords anymore, right?).