Anyone know if Civ5 has been pirated yet?

Let me offer an unique perspective on pirated games.

When I was young I lived in Yugoslavia. It was impossible to buy any sort of legal software at that time (except those made in our country) and Amiga and Atari appeared just before the war, so the only way you could have a computer was if it was imported (actually smuggled) from Italy, Austria or Germany.

Piracy had a status of (almost) legitimate business because there were no laws about it. We even had pirates paid ads on covers of computer magazines. All reviews were based on pirated software, obviously. Before you ask+, these magazines were pretty professional and hardcore. Tips for programming in Assembler, schematics, microprocessor programming guides etc. I'd say that from 1990s here in Croatia were went back to stone age, at least as far as computer sciences are concerned.

I attached a page from "do it yourself" section from one of these magazines I found on the web. Pretty cool stuff.

Anyways, back to topic. We had access to literally thousands of games and software at that time, at pretty cheap prices. Lists of pirated games and software were huge. After the Croatian war of independence, laws still didn't exist but a new problem arose. Yes, now we had importers of foreign goods selling Amigas, Ataris, PCs but the prices were like double, triple or even quadruple compared to those in Austria. And software was still unavailable, especially games. Once Amiga and Atari were dead, the PC games market started to gain strength (I was working at the first Croatian gaming magazine at that time) and were were still writing reviews based on pirated games. That was 1997. Why?
Because legal computer games were:
a) available 6 months to 2 years after initial release
b) costing as much as 20% of a monthly income (250kn for a crappy game, 350kn for a good famous/good game, 2000kn avg. monthly salary in capital, 1500kn elsewhere)

If we really wanted to have original copies, we had to buy white labels (around 80-100kn) because that was all we could afford. And you know how OLD white label games can be.

In 2010 the situation is much better. Croatian government passed anti-piracy laws a long time ago, there were at least two big police actions that wiped most of the pirate population in Croatia. Average salaries are now much higher. Hardware and software is available normally and I really can' be bothered to use pirated software anymore. It's so much more convenient to have original Windows, to use steam etc.

However, if not for pirates and pirated software, if not for the smugglers and smuggled hardware, 20 million people (including myself) living in Yugoslavia would've been almost completely computer-illiterate until year 2000. And for that, pirates will always have a special place in my heart as people who provided me the means to learn, work and have fun. Basically, I owe them my livelyhood.

***
The other side of the story. My parents are musicians and their livelyhood basically depends on royalties. Or at least that's how it's supposed to work in theory. The funny thing is, royalties were paid out much more often and better in Yugoslavia than they are now in Croatia. So the reason why software piracy existed was really only because there were no such laws for foreign products, compared to Yugoslavian composers, performers, writers, even software programmers. Software programming was acutally a pretty well paid job in Yugoslavia.

So I understand what rolayties (or legal software) means to people who try to make a living out of it. I understand it very well. However, if the alternative is that you have no access to any of it at all, I'll always prefer pirated software.

The concern is in countries where it can be sold, though, not the others.

PieceOfMind said:

Sorry if this is just nitpicking, but is there any reason you put the word 'favorite' in there?

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Coulda used Precious instead... but since the reasoning behind using a Pirated copy of anything remains -- how should i put it ever so gently, this time -- a give-or-take $$Money$$ from-by idiom... i doubt Favorite goes beyond the fact that someone didn't buy the stuff to enjoy its inherent rewards while the coders didn't receive what they already worked for, which is (caught in a loop here) Money.

El Caballerion said:

CiV has a 50% chance of getting pirated if you play as the Ottomans.

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I simply fell off my chair to laugh out-loud at this jewel of a comment!
Lemme add -- eastern Africa.

Guardian_PL said:

It is obvious. That you're ignorant....

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Who? Me?
Get real.

Slowpoke said:

I'd like the ads if they took into account what games you played. Anything that isn't FPS/TBS/Civ I just don't care about unless it's so awesome I would've heard about it anyways.

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Steam released a new feature last week where you can write a short recommendation for a game on Steam(though you can use it to warn your friends away from a crap game too) that is shown only to your friends. They also have the "based on other games you own or have viewed we suggest this:" thing that many sites like Amazon use.

The notifications are a news announcement system which obviously due to Steam's store half its news is also ads for its games.

Rudster816 said:

The legitimacy of pirating issue hurting the gaming industry aside, the solution is a strong multiplayer. All games get cracked, but you still can't play online. The Call of Duty series doesn't really suffer from piracy because the game focus's so much on the MP. Games like CSS\TF2 are almost entirely pointless to pirate (you can only play with bots). Making single player focused games in today's industry is quite silly IMO if your really concerned about piracy.

Also, games that are built to use steam from the ground up (not like Civ V or the latest COD's) are such a PITA to run with pirated versions, that it pretty much prevents a lot of people from running them. (only super nerds can figure out how to get them to work).

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Yep, and cheaters are still willing to buy new codes for the games over and over again so they can keep on cheating, which really only makes more money for the developers.

The problem though is that all the cheaters hop on during free weekends on Steam making server admins work overtime catching and banning them. Modern Warfare 2 has no admins so everyone got screwed (that is Infinity Ward/Activison's fault).

PieceOfMind said:

You used an external cd drive.

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Or copied it onto a USB drive or through a LAN.

Bad Brett said:

The cracked version of Civ 5 is completely Steam-free.

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Proof that it is actually completely removed? Afaik they just circumvent it and its still there you just don't deal with it.

But it's a pointless discussion. Some people just refuse to open their eyes and accept the truth, which is that Steam is about control over the legitimate customers, not a pathetic attempt to stop piracy.

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I've never said its solely an attempt to stop piracy, as for control, it gives many many other and useful features besides the games being part of your account permanently.

The software companies know that it can't be stopped and they are also starting to realise that piracy actually can be a great way to market a game. They also realise that most of the pirates wouldn't go out and buy the game even if it was impossible to crack.

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Many pirates also don't go out and buy the game anyways.

- Because they can release rushed, unfinished games and use the automatic patch system to fix the bugs before the customer finds them.

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They release rushed and unfinished games with or without Steam,

- Because they can keep track on exactly how their customers play the game and what systems they have. They use this information to custom design content that they know will sell.

- Because they can present pop-up adds that the majority of all users are to lazy to disable.

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They also post actual news updates in them too, and I find that people who don't like them are not turning off because of laziness, rather they, for some strange unknown reason, do not look for an options/settings menu. This has and always will mystify me why people don't look for an options/settings/preferences menu when they have a problem like this, to me it is common sense the and first thing I do whenever I get a new game or software.

- Because the interface is so dumbed down that even console players can understand it. And as we all know, dumb people are more likely to spontaniously buy crap without looking it up first.

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Right... I'd hardly say the interface is dumbed down, seeing how many people can't even find the settings menu. A good interface is one that is easy to use, or would you rather have something incredibly complex and hard to figure out?

The interface has nothing to do with "dumb people" impulsively buying games, if people don't research a game before buying that is their own damn fault. And indeed people do that far too often without even using or knowing Steam exists (otherwise games like Too Human, Haze and Elemental wouldn't have sold barely at all).

Indeed, Steam offers a link to Metacritic and posts the game's Metacritic score, there is the new recommendation feature (though it requires you to have some people on your friend's list). There's links to the Steam forums, Community Groups, the game's official website, it lists people on your friends list who own the game, and doesn't stop you from simply googling the game and looking it up.

So please, do some basic research yourself before making things up and passing them off as facts about people you don't even know.

Bibor said:

-snip-

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That is really fascinating, and certainly in that situation entirely understandable. I am glad that conditions have improved in the last decade
Though that doesn't apply to 'Western' Europe and North American pirates, they have no such excuse

I can tell you that Civ 5 has definitely been pirated and is on sale here in Hong Kong for about $3 USD. Interestingly enough it is at a discount to all the other recent pirated games. I was told by a shop owner that it doesn't sell very well....

I doubt that the multiplayer is cracked. They usually run file checksums to make sure each side has the exact same files and no cheats are running. I don't believe there were even any multiplayer cheats for Civ IV, but I could be wrong. Multiplayer isn't as often pirated as single player. So if you make a good multiplayer game you're alright.

ezwip said:

I doubt that the multiplayer is cracked. They usually run file checksums to make sure each side has the exact same files and no cheats are running. I don't believe there were even any multiplayer cheats for Civ IV, but I could be wrong. Multiplayer isn't as often pirated as single player. So if you make a good multiplayer game you're alright.

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While this is true, MP is pirated.
WoW, for example, has been pirated. Demigod as well.

Andvare said:

While this is true, MP is pirated.
WoW, for example, has been pirated. Demigod as well.

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Certainly has not stopped WoW from having 12 million paying subscribers, afaik the pirates can only play on private servers.

Thieves are an interesting breed of people. Hopefully they will see their day in jail down the road once the governments get all of this figured out.

Kruelgor said:

Thieves are an interesting breed of people. Hopefully they will see their day in jail down the road once the governments get all of this figured out.

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There's a LOT of privacy laws to violate or kill before you really can get to throw people in jail for it.

I dont play many games so I buy them, 50$ still not much money in the great scheme of things, but all that wasted to try to prevent the unpreventable could be use to lower the cost and make it even more accessible for all those 15 yrs old who cant convince their parent to buy them a new game

Still, despite the fact that steam and drms and all that don't stop pirating, they cut down on people using pirated copies really. Argue all you want about how it only encourages people, but you look at the games that DON'T use stuff like this, and it's just a nightmare for them, they're pirated way more.

Slowpoke said:

Still, despite the fact that steam and drms and all that don't stop pirating, they cut down on people using pirated copies really. Argue all you want about how it only encourages people, but you look at the games that DON'T use stuff like this, and it's just a nightmare for them, they're pirated way more.

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Not really, Spore became the most pirated game yet partly due to a protest against its DRM. It was then dethroned by the massive popularity of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 and I assume Black Ops is also highly pirated, both of which used Steam.

Slowpoke said:

Still, despite the fact that steam and drms and all that don't stop pirating, they cut down on people using pirated copies really. Argue all you want about how it only encourages people, but you look at the games that DON'T use stuff like this, and it's just a nightmare for them, they're pirated way more.

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Not true. All games are being pirated, protected or not. The only factor is popularity - the more "hot" new game is, the faster it will be cracked.

And I laugh at people who think that government is there to protect them. If you have money you own, regardless of whether you're a bastard or not. If you don't, well then you'd better avoid attention even if you're honest and hardworking.

Steam and some other digital distribution stores (like Impulse) offer something quite good against piracy: convenience.

When the software is not crippled with third party drm (like everything EA sales), it's very easy to move your games from one setup to another. It's very easy to reinstall everything from any location (depending of your internet connection, of course). Impulse and Steam both offer easy ways to backup your software, and it's even possible with the latter to simply move your steamapps manually from one location to another. Try that with installed software on windows.

Anyway, drms are always a hassle. Buy drm-free software.

JBConquests said:

How come those web sites which have images of games for pirates to download are allowed to stay up and running? I would think the law enforcement for whatever country they are in would shut them down.

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Because there aren't such sites.

blind biker said:

Because there aren't such sites.

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There's a group of pirates who would like a word with you about that.

In any case, nearly any game can be pirated. Steam has a habit though of making pirating...annoying. For instance, Garry's Mod is a very popular standalones mod which costs $10 on Steam. When GMOD10 (the version that went retail) was released, someone did manage to get it away from Steam. The problem? Unpatchable. It was a standalone install but it was unpatchable which is bad because it also meant the newer mods were out of reach.

Likewise, there was an obscure game called GPS which never was cracked simply because no one cared.

Slowpoke said:

Still, despite the fact that steam and drms and all that don't stop pirating, they cut down on people using pirated copies really. Argue all you want about how it only encourages people, but you look at the games that DON'T use stuff like this, and it's just a nightmare for them, they're pirated way more.

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Actually, quite the contrary: all the GOG.com games are 100% DRM free, and yet, of their entire catalog (close to 300 titles) only 2 have I ever seen on torrents. 2 out of nearly 300!

On the other hand, all the DRM-encumbered games, without exception, are cracked and torrented in a matter of days. Case in point is Civilization V, which is one of the most intensely pirated games out there.

Hence your argument is completely invalid.

blind biker said:

Actually, quite the contrary: all the GOG.com games are 100% DRM free, and yet, of their entire catalog (close to 300 titles) only 2 have I ever seen on torrents. 2 out of nearly 300!

On the other hand, all the DRM-encumbered games, without exception, are cracked and torrented in a matter of days. Case in point is Civilization V, which is one of the most intensely pirated games out there.

Hence your argument is completely invalid.

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Just going to a single torrent site, I was able to find eight COG games without trying very hard.

As a matter of fact, I typed in "GOG.com" and without fail, I just got another 7 results with GOG.com in the torrent name. Meaning in three minutes of work, I managed to find nearly 15.