QSC-C2e - Hannabaline & the 300 Spartans - Emperor

(61) 1500BC
I find the offending barbarian camp. Fortunately I'll get my next city built before it becomes a problem.

(62) 1475BC
Hippo is founded - our first coastal city would you believe?
A number of things complete. Ultica gets it's temple and will switch to military.
Theveste and Carthage both train archers to defend them. Finally, all cities have a defender in them.

(63) 1450BC
This time the Aztecs demand 20 gold. So far I have caved into all demands, but military is slowly moving up the priority list.

(64) 1425BC
America has discovered mapmaking, but not brokered it around.

(65) 1400BC
Mapmaking has been sold around to the Iroquois and the Aztecs. Max treasury and max gold/turn brings us to "close to a deal".

(66) 1375BC
(67) 1350BC
With an Aztec city being built on one of my wanted sites, and Persian settlers on their way to another, I decide to begin building up my military for an assault on the weakest civ, which looks like the Americans.
I begin by switching Carthage over to a barracks.
A barbarian horseman comes out of the camp and attacks the warrior at Hippo. It loses.

(68) 1325BC
(69) 1300BC
(70) 1275BC
Our first Spartan Hoplite has popped out of Ultica. Another is started.

Arizona_Steve - 1275BC

(71) 1250BC
I begin by building some embassies.
The Aztecs are building The Oracle and have 14 turns to go.
The Iroquois are also building The Oracle, and have 18 turns to go.

(72) 1225BC
Big trading round. America has contact with the Germans, Greeks and Chinese.
I get contact with Germany for 28 gold + 8/turn.
I get the Iroquois world map in exchange for Contact with Germany.
I sell contact with Germany to Persia for their entire treasury of 35 gold.
I sell Contact with the Aztecs and 3/turn to Germany for contact with Greece.
I sell contact with the Iroquois, Persians and Aztecs, together with 35 gold + 4/turn to Greece for contact with China and Map Making.
I sell contact with the Iroquois, Persians and Aztecs to China for their World Map.
I sell our World Map to America for 20 gold + their World Map.
I sell our World Map to the Aztecs for 70 gold.
I sell our World Map to the Iroquois for 75 gold.
I sell our World Map to China for 50 gold.
I sell our World Map to Greece for 70 gold + their World Map.
Carthage builds a barracks and starts cranking out Spartan Hoplites.

(73) 1200BC
Ultica grows to size 4 and is MM'd to 5 shields/turn.
I MM Leptis Magna to 6 shields/turn to speed up it's temple.

(74) 1175BC
Carthage grows to size 5, but I can't quite MM it to 10 shields/turn. Luxuries go to 10% to stave off riots.

(75) 1150BC
I see some techs have been swapped around, so another round of trading ensues.
World Map + 150 gold to America for Mathematics and a worker.
World Map + 70 gold + Mathematics to Persia for Polytheism.
Polytheism to Greece for Code of Laws, their World Map and 6 gold.

(76) 1125BC
(77) 1100BC
Carthage gets two defenders and starts a temple to allow it to go to size 6 without luxury tax.

(78) 1075BC
Carthage hits size 6 and achieves the magic 10 shields/turn.

(79) 1050BC
I upgrade a warrior to a swordsman, to give the AI something to fear.
I also switch Ultica over to a courthouse, as it is losing 3 shields/turn to corruption.
Persepolis completes the Oracle.

(80) 1025BC

Arizona_Steve - 1025BC

(81) 1000BC
Leptis Magna has completed its temple, and starts a barracks.
Hippo completes it's temple and starts a harbor.

(82) 975BC
Carthage and Theveste both complete temples and start a swordsman and a barracks respectively.

(83) 950BC
The Aztecs complete the Oracle and that confuses me because I thought it was completed by Persia. Turns out that Persia are the proud owners of the Colossus.

(84) 925BC
(85) 900BC
(86) 875BC
(87) 850BC
Leptis Magna now has a barracks and begins cranking out Spartan Hoplites.

(88) 825BC
(89) 800BC
(90) 775BC

Arizona_Steve - 775BC

In my game, America didn't have enough workers to snatch the spices and incense, and Persia had to string cities out along the west coast. Persia grabbed the horses near Washington, so Abe had no iron or horses, making him a natural target. He also had a tech lead and plenty of money, which I relieved him of, more than making up my upgrade costs. This would have been a much different game under RBE rules, with all those early workers unbought, and the Americans doing much better- I think I mentioned at one point that in my game, when I built an embassy, Washington showed two productive citizens working flood plain tiles and a clown, since the incense nearby hadn't been hooked up yet.

Although I'm behind the group in general, and in a worse position overall due to the strong Aztec presence- I don't think anyone else had the Iros eliminated as fast- I'm doing well on a personal level when being trapped on an island with 5 AI, two of them 'pushy types.'

I'm going to practice with a few Carthage games once I finish the Rome game to get used to the Numidian Merc's cost. Normal hoplites are so much more useful, and I think I'd almost rather build more workers and get cheaper libraries than have to deal with that UU. Unless we get a GOTM-Babylon style start, and have to fight for our lives from the beginning, I'm going to almost solely use warrior+settler pairs until I get a good military factory going.

So in your game the Aztecs and Iroqs fought? Interesting. In my game no fighting at all. Well ... until I decided I need more space .. and luxuries ... and the others where to puny to resist me

I am unavoidably pulled away with other commitments today and may not get the next data table completed and up until sometime on Sunday. I apologize for the delay.

This game has some very interesting aspects that we can compare between the Regent and Emperor progressions and it will be interesting to ask each player in the end to summarize what they think they may have learned on two levels: 1) individual play issues 2) big picture issues that help understand the differences between Regent and Emperor.

It is monday now but still no posts of the last 30 turns. Are we all waiting for the report to post or are we just waiting for someone to open the flood gate?

OK I can't guarantee that I'll be online anymore today so i'm going to post my fourth report (I noticed that alot of players had done it in the regent game, so I concider it as safe).

edit:
ok i removed it again ... waiting for the cracker ...

Originally posted by cracker
I am unavoidably pulled away with other commitments today and may not get the next data table completed and up until sometime on Sunday. I apologize for the delay.

This game has some very interesting aspects that we can compare between the Regent and Emperor progressions and it will be interesting to ask each player in the end to summarize what they think they may have learned on two levels: 1) individual play issues 2) big picture issues that help understand the differences between Regent and Emperor.

Click to expand...

I'm glad to see that someone else too is busy with real life events. I am having a generally horrible time, and in spite of the feelings of guilt for not being able to complete something I had started, I really won't be able to follow this SG.
I will try to stay tuned to the thread anyway, in case things start getting better...

I was waiting for cracker to give the word to start posting them.

I was waiting also, I have it ready, but will see if we can discuss the last set of turns first.

I have the turns completed upto and beyond 120 - far from domination but interesting no the less. I would prefer to wait for the latest info and some more discussion. I am interested to see when the wars began and who started what etc. etc.

Hotrod

Over at the Regent thread we posted our last turns, it's still interesting to talk about those moves even if cracker's not posted the results.
Some of us over there maanged to get control of the entire starting continent, I was really wondering if any of you had managed to get that far...

I will post my saves/timeline tonight, I have a meeting after work. I got about 2/3s of the home continent, and one city on the next. However, the rest should fall quickly!

My apologies again for lagging with the data tables. Most of the regent players are already uploaded to 170bc and as soon as we get the Emperor level synchronized I will update to that level.

Here is the data table up to turn 90:



We should note that Zenga and Hotrod have surged into the middle ages ahead of the other players and Justus and Singularity are dropping through anarchy into Monarchy in preparation for disemboweling their neighbors.

I don't want to shortchange the discussion of the last series, but I do want to get my next set of saves posted so Cracker can work on the next table. I will post the full timeline later (it is already written up, but I don't want to distract from this discussion). Cracker was right in that I had undergone 5 turns of anarchy, but by 825BC the anarchy was over and I was in Monarchy. That is also the turn I kicked off my Golden Age, which runs through most of this next set of turns.

This was a key part of my strategy, trying to hold off my Golden Age until I was out of despotism. It is always hard with an early UU, and even trickier with a defensive UU, because it is hard to prevent the opponent from attacking. I didn't build many Spartans early because of this, and kept them mostly in my interior cities. Luckily the Aztecs never attacked, or I would have been faced with the decision - Defend with my best unit, or retreat to avoid GA?!? The 2-attack of the Spartan did make it easier to time the GA, instead of having to wait for someone to attack me. I just made sure I had several available when the turn came, and was hoping to treat them like elites, use them to pick off a wounded defender. Speaking of elites, I had no GLs, and only a couple of elites, even after destroying America and Persia. I guess I have been spoiled from playing Rome in the GOTM, I tend to play militaristic anyway, and I am used to getting leaders, or at least more elites to try for leaders with. I have had to build wonders the old fashioned way. I built the Pyramids by hand, although the GA helped a lot, and am over half way done with Sun Tzu.

Save Files (All Three)

Obviously I did not hit domination, in fact I'm not sure it would have been possible in this timeframe. I have over half of the home continent, and am not even half way to the domination limit. According to Mapstat, I would need 821 tiles, I have 327. I think even if I had the whole starting continent, it would not be enough. I am closer on population, with 111 of 151 needed. With Knights next turn, the Aztecs should fall quickly, they have no iron anymore. My plan from here would be to take the remaining 3 cities on this continent, then prepare for war with the Iroquois, who may put up more of a fight. They do have iron, and will have had the opportunity to build some pikes, and the mounted warrior is a decent UU, better for their counterattacks than the Jag warrior. I will probably play on, at least to 10AD which should finish off the Aztecs. A fifth set of 30, going to 230AD, might be enough, at least enough to finish the continent and make an invasion. Still no great leaders, I was hoping for one for the FP, which I would like to build somewhere between the Aztec and Iroquois lands. That, plus Sun Tzu, should give me plenty of productive cities to crank out knights as a jump-off to invade the other continent.

The Known World, 170BC

Sorry about that, here is the correct world map. Note my trading outpost city on the other continent! It was a hassle, but worth it.

Too bad this isn't a space race game !

This round I finally figured out why I was lagging in the number of cities. Carthage is setup nicely for a settler factory but I wasn't using it effectively. Going 2-4-2 was costing me turns ! I threw in another warrior and increased to a 3-5-3 roation with some minor MM to get the settlers out quicker. It may have only shaved 1 turn off but it resulted in more settlers overall for me.

Having played the next round and beyond I am not so sure that getting to the Middle ages first is a benifit or not in this domination game. I don't have an swords yet but war is on the brink and they will arrive soon enough. Can't see the benifit of upgrading my warrior MP's just to have them sit in cities idle.

I am surprised to See Justus II lack of Mercs. Is it due to cost or do you just know that the AI will not be attacking and only offesive units will be needed?? I have been trying to get 1 Merc. per city minimum. They are expensive for such an early unit but in reality more effective than pikes without any resource requirements and they can attack if necessary. On second thought is it just to delay the Golden Age??

Enough rambling -

Hotrod

Originally posted by hotrod0823

I am surprised to See Justus II lack of Mercs. Is it due to cost or do you just know that the AI will not be attacking and only offesive units will be needed?? I have been trying to get 1 Merc. per city minimum. They are expensive for such an early unit but in reality more effective than pikes without any resource requirements and they can attack if necessary. On second thought is it just to delay the Golden Age??

Enough rambling -

Hotrod

Click to expand...

You posted as I was putting my post up, but yes, primarily the second thought I didn't want to have them only to run from an approaching enemy saying "don't come near me, we are still in anarchy!!!"
They are also more expensive, I tried to picture them as an early pikeman, not an improved spear, because of the cost. Great overall unit, but you have to put them into the context of your strategy. Very useful to accompany swords, they can absorb those infuriating archer attacks, and with a 2 attack can actually be used to finish off a wounded defender if you start running out of swords.

Actually, after looking at the new chart, I noticed a mistake, I actually had 9 Spartans in 775BC, but it looks like they got left off the chart. The other unit numbers are correct. I'm not sure if that means they were left out of the point totals. But I did delay building them until late in that set of turns.

Also, my contacts are at 210, I assume this means that I lose the points for America, since they were destroyed? I understand the logic if that's the case (less opportunity for trading, selling tech, etc), just wondering if that's the case.

Rounds 10-12

775 BC (90): Change nothing.

750 BC (91): Carthage builds a horse starts a temple.

730 BC (92): Hadrumetum builds a warrior starts a temple.

710 BC (93): Greece and Germany are ahead by Mono and Feudalism and will not trade. Monty has MOnarchy and will not trade.

690 BC (94): Missed Utica happiness issue and they revolt. Up lux to 20%. Hippo builds a horse and starts another.

670 BC (95): Nothing doing.

650 BC (96): zzzzz

630 BC (97): Carthage builds temples starts horsey. Aztecs in the territories hmm maybe war will go north instead of south.

Aztecs declare and attack a city guarded by a Spartan hopilite. We are in our Golden age!.

610 BC (98): Change to a military focus, archers, hops and horseys.

590 BC (99): Attack Tlaxcala and kill 1 spear the second kills my Hop. Lose a warrior to an already wounded spear moving toward our horses.

570 BC (100): Capture Tlaxcala. Start a temple.

550 BC (101): Form up a stack south of Calixtiahuaca.

530 BC (102): Move stack into Calixtiahuaca territory. Learn Republic but can't afford to revolt yet. Start on Engineering.

510 BC (103): Capture Calixtianhuaca, killing 2 spears an archer and a jag. Losing none. Start a temple.

490 BC (104): German makes a demand and doesn't like the answer. We are at war with Bizzy.

470 BC (105): Few more horseys and a new hop are built. Continue with military. Attack and Wound a spear in Teotihuaca.

450 BC (106): Teotihuaca is down to a jag for protection, pillage the Aztec horses moving a stack towards Texcoco.

430 BC (107): Attack and Capture Teotihuaca and get my first great leader. Consider in FP site and will hold for a few turns to see if I can end this war quickly.

410 BC (108): Decide to hold off on an FP site and elect to take the pyramids. Rush with the leader in Utica.

390 BC (109): My archers and horses have run up against pikeman and now is a time for peace at least with the Aztecs. We get Feudalism and a worker. Revolt and draw 5 turns of anarchy.

370 BC (110): Units will have a few turns to formup into stacks in the south. .

350 BC (111): Anarchy, not much to say.


330 BC (112): Nada.

310 BC (113): more of the same

290 BC (114): New Republic of Carthage. make Peace with Bizzy and get 14 gold out of the deal. Declare war on Abe and capture a worker.

270 BC (115): Whoops! Massive revolts in each city up lux to 20%. Can't take New york yet. lose 1 sword.

250 BC (116): Capture New York Easily, start a temple.

230 BC (117): Attack Phil and lose a horsey. Phiy still standing.

210 BC (118): The spear in Phily must be eating something good. Can't beat those spears . Engineering next turn.

190 BC (118): You guessed it Phily is still standing. Lost another heathy vet horsey.

170 BC (120): Lose a 2/5 sword this time at Phily. MOving another stack into the territory.

Here are the last saves: Missed the middle 2 by 1 turn but 170 BC is correct

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hotrod_QSC_C2e_550BC.zip
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hotrod_QSC_C2e_350BC.zip
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hotrod_QSC_C2e_170BC.zip

And a pic of my Mini map