[BtS] American Civil War

Worked first time I will give it a go thanks.

hi Shiggs713

just wanted to say u that El Hidalgo has made a scenario about the civil war and looks nice as ur mood it is on the scenarios folder...

maybe u 2 could combine ur effords

yea, I saw it... I was going to check it out here soon. Matter of fact, work got rained out early so I might just do that today.

Perhaps do some work on the mod as well. Kevinman says the map should be done here very soon, perhaps as early as later today, so hopefully a scenario and new update in 1-2 weeks.

Shiggs

I'm waiting on the scenario...I think some things are better in context and not on a random map.

Hi guys, I'm working steadily on the map and it should be done soon. (It's really nice )

But whoah, Shiggs, I thought I was working to meet the deadline you sent me in your pm; I will not have it ready for today. I will have all terrain types laid out, peaks, and most rivers (and obviously the shape's already been done). After that I am left with hills, trees, and whatever else I have time for if anything. Your it should be ready today statement kinda blew me away there... But if it helps ease the blow I'll put it on higher priority, seeing how much pressure you've been put under.

I will also be sure to give you the map's neccessary files, such as terrain textures, which originated distantly from Blue Marble's. I imagine it's not neccessary to credit both authours but you can if you want.

And while I'm here, can you post the civ list? It'd be cool to imagine what civs are gonna be on it as I make it.

I am also available to be a part of the team once your map is done; I'm not a skilled code technician but I can probably end up being very resourceful otherwise.

I'll do a big test once we're done the version with the map and leave you some feedback

PS if anyone is really bugging him to get this done because of the map, you can watch for any updates in my mod's map thread- my own map is temporarily on hold while I work on this as of today.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=233586&page=16

And if you wanna yell at someone just send it to my pm folder

Kevin

It would seem it is due about 10 days from now. I will shoot for having it to you by then.

Kevin

right on thanks kevinman. oh sorry I must have misunderstood your post in the accurate earth thread. I thought it said something about being ready soon.... a day had already passed when I saw it, so I figured it would be ready really soon.

I'm already using blue marble v3.0 terrain textures, if what your using is different than that, then I can make changes accordingly. Also just a reminder, but some resources like uranium, oil... ect. have been replaced by resources such as cotton and tobacco... I'm not sure if you were building the map from within the mod, but if not, and you don't already have resources placed, you can skip that... If you want a list of resources that are removed/replaced, its on the first post somewhere.

thanks again,

Shiggs

Awesome, found the civs and resources removed/added

Out of curiousity, I'm guessing you removed aluminum/oil because the scenario doesn't extend far into modern times? (I'll be sure to leave out nat. gas).

What time frame are we looking at?

And again, resources will be added only if I am ahead of schedule; let's aim for next Friday. That should give you the weekend to fix up the scenario for release. Let's hope!

Finally, do you plan on having other natives represented (cuz during this time period before modernization all sorts of different groups were all over the place... I'm thinking especially of miskito natives and stuff like that... I wouldn't want Spain to find Mexico deserted....) Perhaps they could be something like barbarians? (just renamed natives and using the native art set)

Looking forward to playing your finished mod

Kevin

For the 8 resources removed (Aluminum, Oil, Uranium, Ivory, Rice, Gems, Incense, Silk), the first three are because the mod will end before these were really utilized. The others simply because they generally don't appear in large numbers in North America.

For the 8 resources added (Olives, Cotton, Tobacco, Cannabis, Salt, Potatoes, Coffee, Barley), were all added just because they seem to fit the scenario better.

I'm thinking overall time frame is from, Week 2 Feb. 1861 - 1870ish, to allow for some what if?

On the natives... I was planning on only including the Sioux, but may add other natives if it it'll add to the overall gameplay and historical value. Some may be included as "minor" civs or perhaps barbarians though. Its not set in stone.

OK. For the natives, you could probably get away with using barbarians and renaming them. Perhaps even use several differently-named barbarian groups.

As for the point raised in the map's thread, I think we should just go ahead and get this released, and I'll try out some code and see if that's possible. If I discover something I'll pm over the code.

Kevin

EDIT: (edited out)

A near future idea would be what I called wintermod. Basically the snow advances/recedes based on monthly sattelite images, from which I compile a list of plots that will be affected at whichever month. This does not require a working mod and therefore is a near possibility. It would certainly balance things a lot- obviously Ontario is not as fertile as the Mississippi, and a fraction of the year being under snow would balance some of that. Also this would be a good opportunity to test it out before it goes into my mod.

Please keep working on this and make sure you include the European nations so that we can entertain the "what if" they had entered the war questions and ATTACK! Please try to hurry and get the map and make sure the tech tree does not extend past the time period. Also I would recammened letting the time at least go to 1870, that way sufficient armies can be built and lots of fun in the game.

DoubleRD77 said:

Please keep working on this and make sure you include the European nations so that we can entertain the "what if" they had entered the war questions and ATTACK! Please try to hurry and get the map and make sure the tech tree does not extend past the time period. Also I would recammened letting the time at least go to 1870, that way sufficient armies can be built and lots of fun in the game.

Click to expand...

I think including Europe would be a mistake, it's hard enough to have enough of the major locations on the map as it is, putting Europe in there would just be squeezing too much on the map.

It is critical to have Europe in there. The English came close to fighting on the side of the South. This would make for excellent game play to have the option of playing England, or trying to get it into the war. I think there should be a large map, and England should be in the game. As far as Spain or other countries, those are not so important. However, it is absolutely impretive that England be represented in the game. They must have nice red uniforms, along with shiny looking bayonets.

DoubleRD77 said:

It is critical to have Europe in there. The English came close to fighting on the side of the South. This would make for excellent game play to have the option of playing England, or trying to get it into the war. I think there should be a large map, and England should be in the game. As far as Spain or other countries, those are not so important. However, it is absolutely impretive that England be represented in the game. They must have nice red uniforms, along with shiny looking bayonets.

Click to expand...

Europe would be a PAIN. Canada would be good enough to represent Britain

We need Europe Europe is really important. It will make the difference between a scenarior that you play once for an hour and get bored and a scenarior that you play many times over and over. I really hope Shiggs does not let us down and not do Europe. I am sure he would not take the easy way out and not put Europe in, just because it is more challenging and would lead to a much better game

I vote EUROPE IS A PAIN.

Confederacy can try to get Canada on their side. That's enough. Maybe far in the future after the mod is released, then add Spain via Mexico.

Just for a refresher, here's the nations that are presently included, its not completely set it stone, but you'd have to persuade me quite well to change it.

- United States - Abraham Lincoln
- Confederate States - Jefferson Davis
- Great Britain - Alexandrina Victoria (Queen Victoria)
- 2nd French Empire - Charles Louis-Napoléon Bonaparte (Napoléon III)
- Spanish Empire - Isabella II
- Great Sioux Nation - Red Cloud
- Republic of Mexico - Benito Juárez

the Sioux are nomadic. This means they control 0 cities at the beginning of the game, but they will begin with 2-3 "camp" units, which act almost exactly like the camp unit from the mongol scenario. I haven't worked out all the details of which units it should spawn... its set up, but it hasn't been balanced.

There may also be a couple "minor" civs set up to represent some of the other natives.

here's a rough overview of the map (its not 100% complete quite yet)



I'll use python events to keep Great Britain, France, and Spain competitive. Kinda like the revolutionary war mod for vanilla, giving Great Britain "reinforcements from the homelands" ect...

Also considering using parts of Dom Pedro's "Conqueror's Delight", especially the part about national recognition. So the confederacy would start out with no recognition as a nation, and could perhaps earn it.

Shiggs

Shiggs713 said:

For the 8 resources removed (Aluminum, Oil, Uranium, Ivory, Rice, Gems, Incense, Silk), the first three are because the mod will end before these were really utilized. The others simply because they generally don't appear in large numbers in North America.

Click to expand...

Rice was a valuable crop in the Southern US: (from Wikipedia)

"In 1694, rice arrived in South Carolina, probably originating from Madagascar. The Spanish brought rice to South America at the beginning of the 17th century.

In the United States, colonial South Carolina and Georgia grew and amassed great wealth from the slave labour obtained from the Senegambia area of West Africa and from coastal Sierra Leone. At the port of Charleston, through which 40% of all American slave imports passed, slaves from this region of Africa brought the highest prices, in recognition of their prior knowledge of rice culture, which was put to use on the many rice plantations around Georgetown, Charleston, and Savannah. From the slaves, plantation owners learned how to dyke the marshes and periodically flood the fields. At first the rice was milled by hand with wooden paddles, then winnowed in sweetgrass baskets (the making of which was another skill brought by the slaves). The invention of the rice mill increased profitability of the crop, and the addition of water power for the mills in 1787 by millwright Jonathan Lucas was another step forward. Rice culture in the southeastern U.S. became less profitable with the loss of slave labour after the American Civil War, and it finally died out just after the turn of the 20th century. The predominant strain of rice in the Carolinas was from Africa and was known as "Carolina Gold." The cultivar has been preserved and there are current attempts to reintroduce it as a commercially grown crop.[36]


American long-grain riceIn the southern United States, rice has been grown in southern Arkansas, Louisana, and east Texas since the mid 1800s. Many Cajun farmers grew rice in wet marshes and low lying prairies. In recent years rice production has risen in North America, especially in the Mississippi River Delta areas in the states of Arkansas and Mississippi."

DoubleRD77 said:

It is critical to have Europe in there. The English came close to fighting on the side of the South. This would make for excellent game play to have the option of playing England, or trying to get it into the war. I think there should be a large map, and England should be in the game. As far as Spain or other countries, those are not so important. However, it is absolutely impretive that England be represented in the game. They must have nice red uniforms, along with shiny looking bayonets.

Click to expand...

You are referring to the Trent Affair: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Affair

Not sure how close they really were, and what the result would have been. There was an excellent alternative history book (can't remember the name) that focused on this. Many historians feel that the South would have actually made peace or called a cease fire and joined in against the British had they invaded.

I say leave them out and make it about the US primarily. Have the Mormons, some Indian tribes, and Mexico because there was direct interaction there. But I think Europe would be unbalancing and very ahistorical.

England must be represented in the game. I will compromised that making the Europe map may be difficult, but it could be supplemented, as suggested by having England in control of Canada. England could then periodically recieve troops from the homeland as also suggested. Now, the idea of the South not being recognized as a nation right away is a really great one. Perhaps the more battles the south wins, are if they hit a certain % in conquered territory, England recognizes them and they can get them on their side. But to just not have the English in the game, would really limit the "what if's." Is that not one of the main reasons to play a scenario? To recreated history rather than just repeat it.