Colonialist Legacies - the Community Expansion pack | Needs Feedback and Coding

Reserved

With all due respect, this seems a lot like Viregel's proposal - colonisation, half the civ list, enlightenment focus, canals, even the 'community expansion' aspect of it are all parts of the discussion in his thread. I'm not insinuating anything, just making an observation.

I'm surprised you're going to include Phoenicia. I thought you would have included the Zapotecs or the Cree, or something along those lines. I'm curious as to what you mean by "Faith Stealers, Religious Adopters," too.

Can you explain more about the "Enlightenment" mechanic?

Pouakai said:

With all due respect, this seems a lot like Viregel's proposal - colonisation, half the civ list, enlightenment focus, canals, even the 'community expansion' aspect of it are all parts of the discussion in his thread. I'm not insinuating anything, just making an observation.

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Well, the thread does say that this idea was inspired by Viregel's proposal. Although Viregel's focus was on the Great War period and the colonialism leading up to.

Argh, I should have noticed this before making my community expansion thread. Now we have 3 "community expansion" projects in the works, (as long as mine takes off). Anyways, I'm a huge fan of your work, TP.

I'm really at a loss for what to do. Part of me wants to just ditch my old (new) thread and just help with this, part of me wants to just keep trying to work on my own separately. I suppose only time will tell. Before I start posting some of my ideas for From Stone to Stars, I'll PM you my ideas and see if they work well with yours.

Why can't we all just work on our own projects? And give the community the freedom to use what they want, when they want, how they want?

JFD said:

Why can't we all just work on our own projects? And give the community the freedom to use what they want, when they want, how they want?

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I would be inclined to agree with that, but the thing is, many of my ideas for the From Stone to Stars pack would fit in perfectly with a Colonialist Legacies pack. Besides, I have nothing but extremely basic modding skills, so I would be better off helping someone else instead of trying to create my own.

But not with Viregel's pack? You never know, they could even work with my design.

Pouakai said:

With all due respect, this seems a lot like Viregel's proposal - colonisation, half the civ list, enlightenment focus, canals, even the 'community expansion' aspect of it are all parts of the discussion in his thread. I'm not insinuating anything, just making an observation.

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Yes, that was the early concept of the thread and it was clear that that was the focus that most of the members of the community wanted. Viregel has stated however that he now wants it to focus on the the Great War and include upwards of 17 civs. This is more of a focus on 3 core concepts with solid thematics in play.

I took your advice and designed a pack with a cohesive theme and put in 5 civs based around Colonialism.

JFD said:

I'm surprised you're going to include Phoenicia. I thought you would have included the Zapotecs or the Cree, or something along those lines. I'm curious as to what you mean by "Faith Stealers, Religious Adopters," too.

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Can't have a Colonial themed expansion without Phoenicia! Carthage was definitely one of the first major Colonies. Faith Stealers and Religious Adopters was a left over from Armenia (forgot to change it). If I get permission to use Phoenicia, we will most likely change some aspects (as in all combat generates points towards Colonists)

Kageshima said:

Argh, I should have noticed this before making my community expansion thread. Now we have 3 "community expansion" projects in the works, (as long as mine takes off). Anyways, I'm a huge fan of your work, TP.

I'm really at a loss for what to do. Part of me wants to just ditch my old (new) thread and just help with this, part of me wants to just keep trying to work on my own separately. I suppose only time will tell. Before I start posting some of my ideas for From Stone to Stars, I'll PM you my ideas and see if they work well with yours.

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Stone to Stars sounds very similar to Cavemen to Cosmos

This really is intended to be more of a expansion that is geared towards a particular era. I'd love to hear your ideas though.

I'm interested to see what other reaction this thread gets and whether it not it will take off.

Can you explain more about the "Enlightenment" mechanic?

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It's early days, but it's just a concept that I feel needs a lot of work. This was the first thing I could think of regarding Enlightenment.

Well, the thread does say that this idea was inspired by Viregel's proposal. Although Viregel's focus was on the Great War period and the colonialism leading up to.

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I wasn't a fan of Viregel's choices for civs, and I felt the theme was way more geared towards the Great War and not on Colonialism.

JFD said:

Why can't we all just work on our own projects? And give the community the freedom to use what they want, when they want, how they want?

Click to expand...

I'm inclined to this, too - I'm mostly interested in the new civs coming down the pipeline from these developers.

I'm curious, why call the project Colonial Legacies when more than half the included civs have nothing to do with colonial legacies? I mean the civs are always the main draw, regardless of how cool you make the other mechanics. The second half of your civ list just seems to have nothing to do with the proposed themes of the expansion.

If you're looking for a colonial themed African Civ, Kilwa or the Boers would make a lot more sense than Mali. Of all the European Civs you could choose, Switzerland had almost the least to do with the Colonial Era. Belgium or even Italy would make more sense. In terms of Native Civs, the Inuit are an odd choice as they had significantly less interaction with colonists than other native civs. Then Vietnam AND Burma? Why two Indochina civs?

turingmachine said:

I'm curious, why call the project Colonial Legacies when more than half the included civs have nothing to do with colonial legacies?

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It's a working title. Don't think too hard about it.

But if you must know - Australia, Canada and Mexico were all Colonial Countries (they left Colonial Legacies). Phoenicia as an ancient civ established Carthage as a Colony (they left a Colonial Legacy). Vietnam has had a history wrought with Colonialism throughout it's history (they left a Colonial Legacy). The Inuits were a pre-colonial peoples that were adversely affected by Colonialism (they left a Colonial Legacy). This leaves Mali, Switzerland and Burma are roughly analogous to Venice, Poland and Shoshone or Huns, Austria and Sweden in terms of relevance to the respective pack.

Alternate titles could include Forge of Nations, Age of Enlightenment, Upon the Horizon, On Distant Shores, Across the Seas, The Odyssey, Great Expectations or anything else that will take hold that someone can think of.

JFD said:

Why can't we all just work on our own projects? And give the community the freedom to use what they want, when they want, how they want?

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Completely agreed. There doesn't need to be one monolythic community expansion pack to rule them all, especially considering people who play mods often pick and choose what they want anyway.

I look foward to see what will come from this one.

TPangolin said:

It's a working title. Don't think too hard about it.

But if you must know - Australia, Canada and Mexico were all Colonial Countries (they left Colonial Legacies). Phoenicia as an ancient civ established Carthage as a Colony (they left a Colonial Legacy). Vietnam has had a history wrought with Colonialism throughout it's history (they left a Colonial Legacy). The Inuits were a pre-colonial peoples that were adversely affected by Colonialism (they left a Colonial Legacy). This leaves Mali, Switzerland and Burma are roughly analogous to Venice, Poland and Shoshone or Huns, Austria and Sweden in terms of relevance to the respective pack.

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But I mean there are better choices that fit more into the theme.

For example, if you want an African civ, Mali had next to nothing to do with Colonialism. Both Kilwa and the Boers are viable civs as specifically colonial civs, or you can go with Kongo, Ashanti, Benin, etc. in terms of indigenous civs directly affected by colonialism.

However I'm a big fan of Mali, since it's well designed and has a 3D Leaderscreen. Mali is also very popular amongst the community. When we have 5 Civs affected by Colonialism, I think it's not such a bad idea to deviate.

Kongo would be a nice appearance however, not sure if I am too keen to swap it out for other civs though. But this is an expansion that responds to community feedback

What would you swap it out for?

I might advocate for pairing the new features with already existing Civs and upcoming Civs in the Colonialist Legacies pack. If I were swappping Mali out I'd do the Zimbabwe we talked about in the other thread or Ashanti before Kongo (though Kongo'd come 3rd).

Rather than focus on the civs for now, I'd rather people provide feedback on the actual mechanics.

In terms of civs though, I think I'd rather do civs that have already been made and are well rounded.

TPangolin said:

This leaves Mali, Switzerland and Burma are roughly analogous to Venice, Poland and Shoshone or Huns, Austria and Sweden in terms of relevance to the respective pack.

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Burma is quite relevant to the colonial theme of the project. It was the English' foothold in Southeast Asia, and the legacy of English colonization still lingers on.

It was the English who opened the floodgate for Indian Muslims (well Bangladeshi nowadays) into Burma. These people are also know as Rohingyas and are quite a buzz on many major newspapers after their clash with the Burmese Buddhists last year.

When talking about colonies, people tend to immediately think of Canada, Australia,... countries that started off as colonies. However, there were colonies that already existed as independent nations prior to being invaded by western powers, such as Burma and Vietnam. Their stories deserve to be told, too.

In regards to colonies, by 'claims surrounding tiles' do you mean just a one tile radius like regular cities or perhaps a 2 tile radius?

I was thinking that colonies would instantly claim a 2 tile radius around it, but they cannot expand their borders. It'd still be possible to purchase land but at a far greater cost than normal; buildings can also be bought but are also more expensive (I was thinking they should feel like a risky financial investment but with quite the handsome pay-off in the end if you've played your cards right - EDIT: Possibly some buildings for colonies only that provide some hefty bonuses? Maybe they give yield bonuses to the new luxury and bonus resources? They'd be lost after they're puppeted or annexed though).

Though, on the other hand, I think it'd be a bit redundant considering Venice's UA. That and it'd be pretty frustrating to lose colonies to rebels after spending so much money on them (even if one knew the financial risks involved).

Oh well, just a thought to throw out there.