Design Thread - For Discussion and Review

In terms of Uruguay, I have one that I've been working on. The concepts are pretty interesting:

- Great Musicians
- Gifting Units to City-States
- Agricultural Pint-Sized Powerhouse

Uruguay:

UA: Libertad o Muerte: Gifting Military Units to City-States provides you with Great Musician points and increased Influence. National Wonders provide you with a pair of Great Work of Music slots that, when both are filled, provide +2 Great Musician points and a Theming Bonus.

UU: Blandengue: Lancer Increased Combat Strength on friendly territory. May fortify. Upgrades to Great War Infantry.

UB: Estancia: Granary replacement. +1 Food and +2 Culture from Cattle, Sheep and Horse tiles. Has two Great Work of Music slots (with a Theming Bonus) that provide +4 Food when both are filled.

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First of all, the UA name sound say Libertad o Muerte (sorry for being so anal but it was really bothering me). What does the UU replace? The UB seems interesting but +4 food is a lot. That's almost as much as Hanging Gardens, in fact if you keep the +2 food that granaries normally have that is the Hanging Gardens. If you have any of those animal resources it also becomes better than the Hanging Gardens, you could possible get +10 food or more from one building. I get that music comes late compared to the granary but +4 food is still a lot. Also, no disrespect is intended to Uruguay, but how well known if Uruguay for their music? I ask this seriously because I don't listen to any Spanish music that comes from countries below Columbia and Venezuela so I don't know what Uruguayan music sounds like. I'm guessing Tango because Uruguay and Argentina have extremely similar cultures and their accents sound the same (again no disrespect to Uruguayans, I know you guys hate being confused with Argentines lol).

The common Tango and Gaúcho songs are pretty much the same in that region, with a bit leaking into Brazil.

What is interesting is what happens around the 60s. Uruguay starts churning out bands that are quite famous and it's almost an Uruguyan Invasion, if you will. While not fully representative of that country, I like Cuarteto de Nos a lot, so there's one.

I would say that it's more the fact that compared to pretty much all other Spanish-speaking countries in Latin America, Uruguay has managed to churn out more popular bands and musicians than pretty much everyone else, while still keeping their roots in their traditions. Brazil's a weird case, because we're this massive territory that speaks a completely different language that is mildly relatable but not 100%.

In a way, we're the Russians of SA (Oh, God...).

Also, goddamn Portuguese, screwing my mind when talking about Spanish!

About the Estancia, I'll probably drop the bonus to +2.

Its very OP. +2 culture? That's more OP then Ethiopia's UB...
Also more Spains(Habsburg this time):

Habsburg Spain(Charles I)


Iberian Union (Philip II)


Well... Sorta Portugal split, as well.

Hai gurls, rate me pls:

The Kingdom of Italy

Victor Emmanuel III

Nova Roma
Receive Culture upon annexing a Puppet that has not been in Resistance for 10 turns. This wait time is halved and bonus doubled in coastal cities.

Alpini
Receives +30% Combat Strength when defending in rough terrain, unlike the Great War Infantry it replaces. Ignores terrain cost.

Caio Duilio Class
Receives a larger combat bonus against cities than the Ironclad it replaces. Starts with the Coastal Raider I promotion.

Click to expand...

This is actually my planned Italy design, and as you can see, the UUs are already taken by JFD. I'll fix that by changing the JFD civs' UUs if they are activated at the same time as this mod.

Thats- nice. Accept one thing: how does the culture boost scale?
(And what you think of my spain)

I haven't thought of scaling yet - how do you think it should scale?

I really like the concept of the Treasure Fleet - although it may not fit Spain that much, to be honest.

The Habsburg Spain one is just a minor revision of JFD's HRE...

compare UAs and the great ambbasadors- thats not "minor"... also, well, its the Iberian union.

the bonus should scale by era, obviously, and by city size.

Is the Caio Duglious class even that necessary? Feels like you're overcomplicating yourself for no real reason. Maybe having Askaris and Savaris as uniques (replacing Rifleman and Cavalry respectively) could do better and more reflective of Colonial Italy.

Also, it's kinda funny you went with the UA I usually gave to Colonial Brazil, sans the settling Puppet cities bit. I imagine it'll take a long time until you can see the fruits of the bonus, so the culture bonus gotta be pretty good to compensate, I'd say a whole free Social Policy could be given without it being overpowered.

GPuzzle said:

The common Tango and Gaúcho songs are pretty much the same in that region, with a bit leaking into Brazil.

What is interesting is what happens around the 60s. Uruguay starts churning out bands that are quite famous and it's almost an Uruguyan Invasion, if you will. While not fully representative of that country, I like Cuarteto de Nos a lot, so there's one.

I would say that it's more the fact that compared to pretty much all other Spanish-speaking countries in Latin America, Uruguay has managed to churn out more popular bands and musicians than pretty much everyone else, while still keeping their roots in their traditions. Brazil's a weird case, because we're this massive territory that speaks a completely different language that is mildly relatable but not 100%.

In a way, we're the Russians of SA (Oh, God...).

Also, goddamn Portuguese, screwing my mind when talking about Spanish!

About the Estancia, I'll probably drop the bonus to +2.

Click to expand...

Yup, the Uruguayan Invasion is enough of a known event as to be worth a wikipedia page.

However, I didn't want to step in the toes of either Argentina (which already has the Tango Hall and Great Person focus), nor Brazil (which also has a Great Person focus). While also trying to stay away from the cattle bussiness (so no food bonus).

Which is why I went for the unorthodox design I came up with, I know it still takes the Specialist focus of Leugi's Argentina but... eh, I better come up with a revision.

As for the Blandengues... about half of the drawings I've seen of them has them actually carrying Tacuara Lances, the Uruguayan army, particularly during the revolution was actually characterized for using those lances more than carabines due to... lack of resources, so I'm pretty sure it's as much if not more fitting.

Uruguay
Leader: José Gervasio Artigas
UA: Switzerland of the Americas: Cities add the largest yield of foreign cities with whom they share borders to their own yield. +10% Production Towards National Wonders for each civ with whom you've made a Declaration of Friendship that has already built it.
UU: Blandengue: Replaces Lancer: Can Fortify and has extra combat strenght when stationed in the borders of your cities.
UB: Entrepot: Replaces Harbor. Forms a city connection with the Capital if unexistent. Extends Sea Trade Route length. +5% Gold and Culture from Trade Routes coming from and to this city.

Zantonius, I really like that Italy design. I think the biggest problem is that it shares both UUs with JFD. I think that instead of the Caio Duilio we could use the Conte di Cavour class battleships. It's the class of dreadnoughts that came before the Caio Duilio. And I agree with Hoop that we could use the Askari instead of the Alpini. Apparently Askari were used by Europeans as police forces in their colonies so maybe they could have some kind of friendly lands bonus and cancel extra unhappiness from puppet cities. That way you aren't suffering from the unhappiness generated by your puppets. I would also change their name to Ascari since that's how you spell it in Italian (there are no k's in Italian).

Natan, do try and remember that this thread is primarily for discussion and stuff and just posting loads of designs is, in my head, somewhat discouraged. We already have a thread for that and you've already posted like 9 designs, way more than anyone else, while also not really contributing as much to the conversation as most other people. If you have an idea, keep it to the original thread - if you've something you reeeally want discussed, then go for it here. Quality over quantity! (Particularly when you seem to have ripped half of that Spain from JFDs HRE...)

Regarding Fillip, having the portugeuse UA plus an additional, fairly powerful, component seems odd. But I do like the second bit! I don't get the rationale for making the tercio cheaper but weaker since they were like the elite troops of the period. The pillaging focus is also a bit odd, but oh well. Treasure fleet seems cool. Nice design overall!

@ZH - Meh I don't think that Italy is as good as most of your other designs. The UA basically encourages you to do something I end up doing most of the time anyway, its fairly pointless to annex straight away and if the city isn't worth annexing at all then a culture boost won't really make me want the trouble that comes with it. It also isn't that synergetic, really. The alpini and Caio Duilio are odd choices given they've already been taken by JFDs Italy - I mean the Caio Duilio is literally the same as far as I can tell, name and all. (not to mention the fact that the Alpini doesn't really fit your Italy anyway, being a bit more of a colonial design.)

I'd replace the Caio Duilio with an Italia, the Alpini with an Ascari and rework the UA a little, I usually really like your designs and am a relentless Italiophile so would love to see something a little better.

Thanks for feedback! Both praise and criticism is appreciated!

Hoop Thrower said:

Is the Caio Duglious class even that necessary? Feels like you're overcomplicating yourself for no real reason. Maybe having Askaris and Savaris as uniques (replacing Rifleman and Cavalry respectively) could do better and more reflective of Colonial Italy.

Also, it's kinda funny you went with the UA I usually gave to Colonial Brazil, sans the settling Puppet cities bit. I imagine it'll take a long time until you can see the fruits of the bonus, so the culture bonus gotta be pretty good to compensate, I'd say a whole free Social Policy could be given without it being overpowered.

Click to expand...

I went with the Caio Duilio Class because Wikipedia said this:

Wikipedia said:

A revolutionary design fitted with the largest guns available, 100-ton 450 mm calibre muzzle-loading guns, they were regarded as the most powerful warships afloat in their day.

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That sounded kinda important, and they were also the UU for Italy in the Scramble for Africa scenario. That the unit is taken by JFD's Mussolini doesn't bother me, what bothers me is that he has it as a unit in the first place. Doesn't fit him at all, what with it being used 50 years before he became relevant.

I will use the Askari for German Africa, as I associate them with German East Africa more than anything. I don't want the Savaris, as I want a naval unit as well as a land Infantry unit that reflects WW1.

Heh, that is a funny coincidence. I also have to give the player a very large bonus, since it is the only part of the UA.

Uighur_Caesar said:

Zantonius, I really like that Italy design. I think the biggest problem is that it shares both UUs with JFD. I think that instead of the Caio Duilio we could use the Conte di Cavour class battleships. It's the class of dreadnoughts that came before the Caio Duilio.

Click to expand...

The Caio Duilio Class here is the actual Caio Duilio Class, which is also the class JFD referenced (I'm guessing that, since it replaces the Ironclad).

Urdnot_Scott said:

Meh I don't think that Italy is as good as most of your other designs. The UA basically encourages you to do something I end up doing most of the time anyway, its fairly pointless to annex straight away and if the city isn't worth annexing at all then a culture boost won't really make me want the trouble that comes with it. It also isn't that synergetic, really. The alpini and Caio Duilio are odd choices given they've already been taken by JFDs Italy - I mean the Caio Duilio is literally the same as far as I can tell, name and all. (not to mention the fact that the Alpini doesn't really fit your Italy anyway, being a bit more of a colonial design.)

I'd replace the Caio Duilio with an Italia, the Alpini with an Ascari and rework the UA a little, I usually really like your designs and am a relentless Italiophile so would love to see something a little better.

Click to expand...

Well, ten turns is a bit waiting time, but I could up it... I basically want to encourage you to keep conquered cities Puppets for a while before annexing them.

I wanted two UUs for this design: one naval unit and one infantry unit to reference WW1. I picked the Alpini because of its importance, especially during WW1 AND the wars in East Africa, and I picked the Caio Duilio Class because it was powerful.

When you say it is primarily a colonial design, I do not agree. The UA is not only supposed to reference the colonies, (though that is part of it) but also Italian warmongering and expansionism in general (Albania being a key example).

The Italia Class actually sounds much better than the Caio Duilio Class - thanks! Also, since you don't like my design, can you suggest an improvement/new design? You should probably post it on my thread instead of here.

Since we're talking about Age of Imperialism I thought I'd show my Third French Republic design:

Third French Republic

UA: La Belle Epoque: Great Works yield Golden Age points equal to their Tourism yield. During Golden Ages, the capital gains double tourism from theming bonuses and all other cities gain 25% of the capital's tourism output.

UU: Foreign Legion: Replaces Rifleman. 20% combat bonus outside friendly territory and give Golden Age points for every turn ended outside friendly territory. Golden Age points given scale with distance from capital.

UB: Cabaret: Replaces Stadium. Comes earlier at Industrialization. +2 culture and 2 Great Work of Music slots which give a same era theming bonus. When both slots are filled, Golden Ages are extended by 10% (max of 50%).

Click to expand...

The design is based on the Beautiful Era (Belle Epoque) in France before World War I. The UA is all about representing that. The second half represents how everyone outside of Paris wanted to live as if they were in Paris. Parisian fashion, Cabaret, life, and culture in general was imitated by anyone in France who could afford it. There's obviously an overlap with Vanilla France, but Napoleon's France should be war based, like JFD's, rather than being culture based. Imperialism got France to their peak which is why the Foreign Legion gives Golden Age points for being in foreign territory. Cabaret comes earlier so it can be more useful and it also started to develop after France's industrialization, just like the Belle Epoque in general. Cabaret is also an enduring sign of the Belle Epoque and continues to be popular in France which is why it extends golden ages.

What do you guys think about it?

Its like Brazil, just much more interesting and focused on cultural victory rather then on actual culture.
I like it. Especially, the UU.
(Though considering I would usually build the Eiffel Tower, and have about 10 cities by the time I do so, this might be slightly OP.... Maybe the percentage should be reduced to 20%?)

IT. IS. PERFECT! I am totally serious, I love it! It's synergistic, it fits the historical civ... I have only one objection, and that is that it isn't colonial enough. I wouldn't use it as it is right now for AoE's France, as it will have a different focus, and be much more imperialistic. But as a design it is perfect!

Also, who do you guys think would be the better leader for a colonial France?

Its a bit late, but... Urdnot, hamm, and anyone who thinks I only revised JFD's HRE.... He made a civ with 4 unique components. Four! The fact that those are the same components doesn't mean its the same civ... My design only has 2. and also, JFD's HRE can't build UUs of conquered civs, right?

Now, back to the current topic... I would have Napoleon III, or the guy from the scramble of Africa scenario...

Nap III is done by Hypereon. Juless Grévy is boring.

I will still take a Nap... he deserves more then a single civ...

I want someone to do Leopold. Or at least a leaderscreen, to update Scramble for Africa.

Well, hamm had a concept.... And the design in the scenario isn't that bad...