Roleplaying Civs and the Policy Tree

Putmalk said:

Why is USA Piety instead of Rationalism?

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Cause if you look at our history we are a bunch of religious nut jobs.

While yes we made leaps and bounds in the 20th century in tech we've always been very religious. We love our religion so much that we made it against the law for government to limit it hence why we have the 1st amendment.

Becephalus said:

I have updated this to go along with the new expansion. Obviously as you can see from the thread below the choices will always be controversial, but I basically used the same system.

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Babylon will take Autocracy while France won't? I've seen the exact opposite so far...

Becephalus said:

I have updated this to go along with the new expansion. Obviously as you can see from the thread below the choices will always be controversial, but I basically used the same system.

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I'd like to know what would make Austria get Autocracy and Maya get Order?Also,why the Byzantines have Freedom instead Autocracy?

Babri said:

I was thinking about starting a topic about appropriate religions for the civs.

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that one is pretty easy.. europe+americas+australia=christianity middle east+indonesia=islam africa=christianity and (mostly) islam india=hinduism east asia=buddhism. BC middle eastern civs=polytheism

GenjiKhan said:

I'd like to know what would make Austria get Autocracy and Maya get Order?Also,why the Byzantines have Freedom instead Autocracy?

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Well Austria was Autocratic for much of its history, sided with the Germans in both the world wars. The Mayas got order because current Latin American is fairly socialist in its leanings, particularly among the indigenous population.

The Byzantines have Freedom because I am generally comparing the countries to their peers, not to modern societies, otherwise all the older ones would be Autocracies since valuing freedom or order is pretty new.

Also read the first post regarding my desire to see all combos represented.

Now as BNW is released, the OP should be updated with new civs.

Shoshone could be: Tradition, Liberty, Honour, Patronage, Freedom.

Arabia could be changed to: Tradition, Honour, Piety, Rationalism, Aesthetics, Order.

IMO when considering for ideologies instead of looking at Byzantines as modern Greece, Aztecs as Mexico etc we should use imagination about what ancient Aztecs would be like in modern era if they survived & so on. And we shouldn't think of Freedom => US, Order => Soviets, and Autocracy => Nazis. It should be more dependant on the government structure of the historic empire. For example the Persia in ciV is no way meant to represent modern Iran. Its UA, UU & UB are all based on Alchamid dynasty.

Putmalk said:

Why is USA Piety instead of Rationalism?

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That would possibly have to do with the birth of the nation. 16th and 17th centuries were a time of religious strife in England, with various Christian denominations struggling for power and many being downright persecuted and oppressed. American colonies were a popular refuge for those who couldn't stand the oppression in England.

For roleplaying England, I'd pick the following five:
- Tradition + Liberty to represent their ancient parliamentary monarchy
- Commerce to reflect the innovations they made to economics and trade
- Exploration to reflect their colonial and maritime power
- Freedom, as a modern Western constitutional monarchy

And for France:
- Tradition to represent their monarchy
- Honor to represent the fierce warriors of the Franks
- Aesthetics to reflect their contributions to the fashions of the world and give them a tourism edge (Lingua Franca)
- Rationalism as a home of renaissance philosophers as well as modern scientists
- For ideology, either Freedom (modern France) or Autocracy (absolute monarchy of Ancien Régime or Napoleon)

Becephalus said:

Well that is a tough one. I was really up in the air about that. I would say because of its comparison to its sister countries (Europe and the British Dominions).

Compared to those peers it is surprisingly conservative and religious. At the same time it is also one of the great homes of science in the world, so I was really torn!

I broke the tie as PIE because Greece was the other LIB/HON/FRE civ and I felt that Greece was more deserving of RAT than the US. I guess from my perspective the US still seems like a very religious country given its circumstances.

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I don't think the united states should be in Piety personally I would have preferred something else I am a very religious american and I can tell you that because of separation of church and state I don't think at all that we are pious we are just tolerant of religion.

Piety isn't really about having a pious populace, it's about having an organized, state-run religion that dictates the way the nation works. As much as the Tea Party would like to have you believe otherwise the United States does not have an official religion, and the founding fathers made quite sure there was room enough for their Deism in the Constitution to combat the Christianity of the masses.

America is a nation born of the Enlightenment. Most of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are ripped straight from the books of the philosophers of the time. It's probably as much of a Rationalism civ as you can get.

Well, since this thread reappeared out of nowhere, and the topic creator is nowhere to be seen, I updated this for BNW. Patronage/Commerce and Piety/Rationalism are no longer mutually exclusive, and each civ will have five policy trees and one ideology.

Order is the least represented ideology because communism wasn't that popular among the civs represented in the game, so I was looking for excuses to put it in places to make the ratio between the three more balanced. Like Portugal and Sweden have socialist elements in their government, for instance.

Also I'm posting this because I'm not sure on some of these and discussion can iron out the kinks in this list.

America - Liberty, Honor, Piety, Commerce, Rationalism, Freedom.
Arabia - Tradition, Honor, Piety, Commerce, Rationalism, Autocracy.
Assyria - Tradition, Liberty, Honor, Patronage, Rationalism, Autocracy.
Austria - Tradition, Honor, Patronage, Aesthetics, Rationalism, Autocracy.
Aztecs - Tradition, Honor, Piety, Patronage, Aesthetics, Autocracy.
Babylon - Liberty, Honor, Piety, Commerce, Rationalism, Autocracy.
Brazil - Tradition, Liberty, Commerce, Exploration, Rationalism, Autocracy.
Byzantium - Tradition, Honor, Piety, Aesthetics, Commerce, Autocracy.
Carthage - Tradition, Liberty, Honor, Commerce, Exploration, Freedom.
Celts - Liberty, Honor, Piety, Patronage, Aesthetics, Freedom.
China - Tradition, Liberty, Aesthetics, Commerce, Rationalism, Order.
Denmark - Liberty, Honor, Patronage, Exploration, Rationalism, Freedom.
Egypt - Tradition, Liberty, Piety, Aesthetics, Rationalism, Order.
England - Tradition, Liberty, Commerce, Exploration, Rationalism, Freedom.
Ethiopia - Tradition, Honor, Piety, Patronage, Commerce, Order.
France - Tradition, Liberty, Patronage, Aesthetics, Rationalism, Freedom.
Germany - Tradition, Honor, Aesthetics, Commerce, Rationalism, Autocracy.
Greece - Liberty, Honor, Patronage, Aesthetics, Rationalism, Freedom.
Huns - Liberty, Honor, Patronage, Commerce, Exploration, Autocracy.
Inca - Tradition, Honor, Patronage, Commerce, Rationalism, Order.
India - Tradition, Liberty, Piety, Patronage, Aesthetics, Order.
Indonesia - Tradition, Honor, Patronage, Commerce, Exploration, Autocracy.
Iroquois - Liberty, Honor, Piety, Patronage, Commerce, Freedom.
Japan - Tradition, Honor, Patronage, Commerce, Rationalism, Autocracy.
Korea - Tradition, Honor, Patronage, Aesthetics, Rationalism, Freedom.
Mayans - Tradition, Liberty, Piety, Patronage, Rationalism, Order.
Mongolia - Tradition, Liberty, Honor, Commerce, Exploration, Order.
Morocco - Tradition, Honor, Piety, Commerce, Rationalism, Freedom.
Netherlands - Tradition, Liberty, Piety, Commerce, Exploration, Freedom.
Ottomans - Tradition, Liberty, Patronage, Commerce, Rationalism, Autocracy.
Persia - Liberty, Honor, Patronage, Aesthetics, Commerce, Autocracy.
Poland - Tradition, Liberty, Piety, Patronage, Commerce, Freedom.
Polynesia - Tradition, Liberty, Piety, Patronage, Exploration, Freedom.
Portugal - Tradition, Liberty, Patronage, Commerce, Exploration, Order.
Rome - Liberty, Honor, Patronage, Aesthetics, Rationalism, Autocracy.
Russia - Tradition, Liberty, Piety, Patronage, Rationalism, Order.
Shoshone - Tradition, Honor, Piety, Patronage, Commerce, Freedom.
Siam - Tradition, Honor, Piety, Patronage, Commerce, Autocracy.
Songhai - Liberty, Honor, Piety, Patronage, Commerce, Order.
Spain - Tradition, Liberty, Piety, Commerce, Exploration, Autocracy.
Sweden - Liberty, Honor, Piety, Commerce, Rationalism, Order.
Venice - Tradition, Liberty, Aesthetics, Commerce, Exploration, Freedom.
Zulus - Tradition, Liberty, Honor, Patronage, Commerce, Autocracy.