Heroes in the mod

Definitely, besides the major heroes are cool enough by the looks of it in their own right

i really like this idea
Seconded! Of course it is a good idea!

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Cool I'm glad you like it! Ahriman I agree as far as implementation right now we're obviously first focusing on getting a bootable/playable version with basic content etc in.

True. Then how about returning with injuries that are removed

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Deadliver you have given me another brain wave re another potential WH-specific promotion mechanic. As we know in the tabletop game there is a really significant gameplay difference between the vast majority of units with one Wound level that will die right away when slaughtered, and the rare exceptionally large/tough units (Dragons, Ogres, Greater Demons etc) that have more than one Wound level, needing to be hit hard several times in succession to truly bring them down. This is another thing to think about perhaps for later rather than right now; but for these meatier units perhaps it would be possible to code a:

Tough promotion
When defeated in combat and they would otherwise be killed, Tough units instead have their HP reset to 75% of max, and gain the:

Wounded promotion
temporarily removes Tough. When healed to 100%, Wounded is removed and replaced by Tough, and current HP is set to 25% of max. If a unit is killed while Wounded, it will of course die as usual.

This would be very doable for the AI, and allow creation of tough units that take a real effort to take down, yet are not unplayably invincible as is often the case when you just keep boosting Strength so that actual combat odds get unworkable. (we need to get away from always relying on generic "plus x% to strength" for effects.) Would also enable implementation of units such as Chaos Spawns that are often relatively weak in combat, yet can soak up very significant amounts of damage and take multiple attacks to kill.

Dragons and greater demons will already be incredibly hard to kill because of their massive strength. You need to bombard them and suicide many units at them first to bring their strength down before you can kill them.

They don't need to be made even harder to kill.

We need to wait and confirm if we even have a problem with AI hero use before we start trying to solve a possibly non-existent problem.

How about the 'watch out Sir!' mechanism

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this is actually quite a fun idea.

Dragons and greater demons will already be incredibly hard to kill because of their massive strength. You need to bombard them and suicide many units at them first to bring their strength down before you can kill them.

They don't need to be made even harder to kill.

We need to wait and confirm if we even have a problem with AI hero use before we start trying to solve a possibly non-existent problem.

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i think what orlanth was saying is to give them the Tough promotion INSTEAD of major strength boosts. so theyre averagely strong but require a lot of hits to actually kill.

Alright, heres 7 heroes for now. mannfred's sword needs some python work to create skeletons after combat, I'll try and add it in the next pack if noone figures it out.

That's an awesome job Mimic! BTW does anyone know how Heroes can be made to show up in a separate "Heroes" tab in the Fall Further civilopedia? I noticed the FF pedia enables separate tabs for Spell lists, temporary "Effect" promotions vs purchasable promos etc; this should enable us to make things easier to find & a lot more understandable for the player while still having plenty of flavorful effects.

i think what orlanth was saying is to give them the Tough promotion INSTEAD of major strength boosts. so theyre averagely strong but require a lot of hits to actually kill.

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That's true P_L. At some point when you just keep adding on big boosts to generic strength, the odds get so skewed that lesser units don't have any chance of even doing damage. For big meaty units like Ogres that are very tough/resilient but not necessarily highly skilled & invincible in combat, we can step down their iCombat value to be more in line with other units and give them Tough to represent their ability to soak up more damage. This would nicely model the WH distinction between having high weapon skill vs high toughness/Wounds without adding much complexity.

awesome work mimic!

BTW does anyone know how Heroes can be made to show up in a separate "Heroes" tab in the Fall Further civilopedia? I noticed the FF pedia enables separate tabs for Spell lists, temporary "Effect" promotions vs purchasable promos etc; this should enable us to make things easier to find & a lot more understandable for the player while still having plenty of flavorful effects.

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im fairly sure it has something to do with the "<-- Start Heroes -->" and "<-- End Heroes -->" comments in the unit infos. similar to the effects in the promotions infos.

I think the rest of the heroes should wait until we have a working version, do you need any help with something high priority?

I'm fine with waiting to do more heroes until we have a working version to test in.

I didn't check the xml file, but did you make most of the promotions in post 101?

Remaking the core promotions from the old Warhammer mod would also be pretty useful.

There's not much else I think until we have the tech tree up and can get a working version going.

Civs are fairly urgent. if you want to start work on the human civs, ill make a start on non human civs.

By civs do you mean units? Any of that needs to be coordinated with deadliver, who is handling a lot of that stuff.

by civs i mean leaders, traits and general overarching...well... civ. i mean the Civilizationinfos.xml and leaderinfos.xml.

Ok. What is required here designwise?

Okay guys. I have not started working on the Civilizations folder (with civinfos, traits etc) yet so whatever you guys want to start on, please do. That just gives me more focus on the unit xml

nothing really is needed designwise, all we need are civ names, adjectives and such. as well as diplomacy and probably trait design.

And this is all in the old Warhammer mod, yes? Just needs to get recoded in different format.

Is there a thread for the design info, or should i just copy it from WHFB 1.5 converted to ff?

Copy it from the 1.5 for now, except take the FF Raider trait.

The only design thread I think is this one:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=306048

Lets go with what we had, we will have to tweak them later once we have the buildnig changes implemented.

For the civilizationinfos there's only a handful of new tags in Fall Further (and entries for empty tags technically wouldn't have to be included at all due to the trimmed XML capability); so I would think it should be possible to largely reuse the old file and modify where necessary to save loads of time. Likewise with leaderheadinfos, and with traitinfos there is only one new tag. It's not like units where we were changing everything anyway; hopefully reusing the files and making a few adjustments where needed could save a whole lot of time & headaches. Errors always crop up during modding so will require booting the mod to check for crashes etc, and using any method there will be expected XML errors as Fall Further content is removed & the game tries to reference it; maybe starting with a bootable skeleton XML version eg P_L's team forum post would help.