[Mod]Sengoku Jidai, Feudal Japan - Interest?! Gathering a team

Hi there, i played shogun total war and teakeda and stuff like that, and now i wanted to ask if there is an interest in this period of japanese history and if some people are willing to start this project.
I would do the graphics part, the rest would have to be done by other people.
I thought about givign each "civ" (which would be resembled by a clan, like takeda or oda) a unique unit, like takeda was famous for his cavalry, oda for his use of rifles and stuff like that.

I attached a picture of my first approach of giving the nippon units teamcolour. this is a hard bit of work, so i first want to know if a team is willing to put up the mod, so my work is worth its time.

Tell me what ur skills are and such.

more pictures can be found in the unit graphics or by following the link in my signature to the warhammer fb mod and then the link to the nippon and catahy army vol 1 and 2

I'd love to see one come about, but I'm stretched pretty thin right now. I'll do what I can to help, though.

I'm not the best learned in this period of Japanese history, but I'll be more than happy to suggest civics, playtest, and give whatever appropate feedback and constructive criticism.

There was a map for this period but I think it could have been better balenced.

Hello,

This was my favorite scenario for Civ III, and played it many times. I don't even know the guy, but I would suggest Andrew Jay for your team. He has a scenario currently for this very time period. Which is pretty good, but add in some good modders, and it could be great. I would also suggest some form of the upgradeable clan leader that if killed has big ramifications, if not the civ collapsing entirely. To take that idea one step further...I also always thought it would be cool if your reigning monarch unit only lasted say...50 turns...You would have to broker a marriage with another clan to produce a new king unit, that keeps all prior upgrades, for your civ to survive...I think The Lopez has a post on Civ III style regicide around here somewhere.

I would be willing to take on a couple of minor projects for you. Keep in mind that I am not a experienced modder. I am willing to research how to's and ask questions to get what you need done, done.

I could code up a regicide type feature pretty easily. I had been thinking about designing some sort of generational hero system ala.. Blood Royale was it? But there is a question of scoping. The warlord exp. will have features that directly speak to this, but we could code our own version easily enough. The first question, though would be who would we want to model and how deeply do we want to go? Just the Daimyo? His generals? Daughters and Sons and marriages? Great Heroes? It's a pretty deep rabbit hole 8).

I think loss of a Daimyo would depend on the leadership/level/cha of his heir(s), their honor/loyalty, and that of his generals, and would most likely involve defections to near neighbors (by score or culture) or to the Barbarian (succession conflict). Again, with Warlords Exp. rumor has it the civ cap will be lifted, and then I should be able to add proper new civ code in the SDK, so we could have actually clan splits and the like.

ok, guys keep up the discussion, i am very busy right now, i just wanted to say, we would need some people who are able to do all the xml changes more details tomorrow

Belizan - I took a look at what The Lopez is doing with his Regicide utility, and I think that would be perfect. The idea looks to have depth, but not go too far down the rabbit hole. I know you are a coder...maybe coopt, or perhaps divide and conquer?

Also, I'm just curious, are you going to include China, Taiwan, or major islands in the map? It's not really necessary, but it would be pretty neat to have off shore powers interfering in the quest for shogunate. Not exactly historically accurate, but could be fun. Sort of like the Irish/Vikings in the Civ III scenario Rood and the Dragon. Just ramblings.

Static leader heads will be the way to go. Maybe from the Civ III scenario. I just read what a pain it is to mod those on the FfHII forum.

The civs and maybe attributes should be pretty easy to get from AJ's scenario, and/or the Civ III scenario. Same goes for tech tree.

We can basically incorporate the best of what's out there from older/smaller versions....Then we get talented modders like you Sez (art), and Belizan (coding), to add in the icing units/events/character that you see fit. Bam, it's done.

I've been doing a lot of text editing for my scenario in notepad....XML shouldn't be that more difficult...What are we talking....Map, Civs, Leaderheads, resources, buildings, and UU's....basically? I've skimmed the tutorials, and with a little assistance most of these seem fairly doable.

Starship said:

Belizan - I took a look at what The Lopez is doing with his Regicide utility, and I think that would be perfect. The idea looks to have depth, but not go too far down the rabbit hole. I know you are a coder...maybe coopt, or perhaps divide and conquer?

Also, I'm just curious, are you going to include China, Taiwan, or major islands in the map? It's not really necessary, but it would be pretty neat to have off shore powers interfering in the quest for shogunate. Not exactly historically accurate, but could be fun. Sort of like the Irish/Vikings in the Civ III scenario Rood and the Dragon. Just ramblings.

Static leader heads will be the way to go. Maybe from the Civ III scenario. I just read what a pain it is to mod those on the FfHII forum.

The civs and maybe attributes should be pretty easy to get from AJ's scenario, and/or the Civ III scenario. Same goes for tech tree.

We can basically incorporate the best of what's out there from older/smaller versions....Then we get talented modders like you Sez (art), and Belizan (coding), to add in the icing units/events/character that you see fit. Bam, it's done.

I've been doing a lot of text editing for my scenario in notepad....XML shouldn't be that more difficult...What are we talking....Map, Civs, Leaderheads, resources, buildings, and UU's....basically? I've skimmed the tutorials, and with a little assistance most of these seem fairly doable.

Click to expand...

That sounds very nice and enthusiastic enough, to throw myself into creating units again i dont mind at all, to have a scenario based on sengoku jidai map already outthere, and another one with perhaps the mongol invasion or an invasion between china ( as i almost done with all chinese units for warhammer (based on chokuno model), which would have to be adepted to this mod.) and perhaps india, cause i will do their civ for warhammer too.
I think about replacing every unit in game with a unique graphic.

Every Warlord (civ) will have the same looking ashigaru (with another colour and perhaps poleflag with their sign) and a unique unit, resembled by another unique graphic each

i am very busy right now, and are not soo good with leading a modding team, but i think first of all we should make a plan of which stuff is to do. perhaps we should start with naming all the warlords we want to have in, these can be taken from shogun total war for example, will have to have a lookat it later. next we should look at the units and techs we need. for that i want to gather suggestions or even a concret concept, perhaps based on the civ3 mod. and when thats done, we should modify the sengoku jidai scenario, to test everything

I found this linkto Wikipedia:


I would like to have anyone to contribute in a structured way like:

Civs:
-Oda (UU: Rifleman)
(Traits: ...)
-Takeda (UU: Cavalry)
-Imagawa (UU: Ashigarus ?!?!)
-Uesugi (UU: YariSamurai)
-Hojo (UU: Castles / Defenders to resemble their skill in building outstanding castles)
-Mouri (UU: Warrior Monks)....

and so on, i will summarize it in the first post.

I think we'll want a custom, micro-sized tech tree. If we want to have any "standard" idea of research/tech at all.

Three religions. We'll probably want to model trade with China and Europe as well. Could create a guns stockpile and allow trade for guns, where x guns are consumed to build a gunpowder unit (by unit). I don't know, there are a lot of tricks one could put into such a mod .

I haven't read TheLopez's regicide discussion in any detail, just his first post which said something like "Regicide like from Civ3". Personally, I'd be tempted to deal with heirs and great generals, but maybe I'm just a sengokujidai fan boy. I like the idea of Ieyasu being an Oda general until you lose Nobunaga, and then your faction fractures 8). And Takeda without his generals just isn't fair.

And here I was about to attempt to make a map with the same ultimate purpose in mind. I wouldn't mind helping out, though I've never modded for Civ4.

Any one here played Koei's Nobunaga's Ambition series?

Soam said:

And here I was about to attempt to make a map with the same ultimate purpose in mind. I wouldn't mind helping out, though I've never modded for Civ4.

Any one here played Koei's Nobunaga's Ambition series?

Click to expand...

Long ago, but yes. Too many numbers 8).

And... fire.. phew.

i would like this regicide idea too, if it doesnt lead to any problems. the gun stockpile is a nice idea and trade would make things even better.
I am very very busy right now, belizan if you or Starship want to take the coordination of this mod, i would be very very happy.

I've got leadership of the Moon Mod to deal with, so I think it would probably be best if I didn't try to manage two mods at once :/.

I am a relatively new modder, and am still learning, but organization skills I have.

I will edit this post later today, and get us a to do list working. Then we can pass the pieces out.

Ok. I think I bit off more than I could chew. I was really hoping Andrew Jay would pop in...if he does this mod will be really easy to take to a clean playable level. I'm going to sit tight to see if he shows up. If not...I'm not sure I have the time required to pursue this mod in a main role. I am still willing to take on a few small projects, but I can't lead a mod team. I have not the experience or the time, I'm sorry.

Do you still want a to do list? That I can do.

Starship said:

Ok. I think I bit off more than I could chew. I was really hoping Andrew Jay would pop in...if he does this mod will be really easy to take to a clean playable level. I'm going to sit tight to see if he shows up. If not...I'm not sure I have the time required to pursue this mod in a main role. I am still willing to take on a few small projects, but I can't lead a mod team. I have not the experience or the time, I'm sorry.

Do you still want a to do list? That I can do.

Click to expand...

i think a to do list would be a start. perhaps andrew will show up, when he has time for it.
I cant lead a team, cause i need everytime i find for doing units, now that i work for FfH II too, i even need more time for more units

Who is Andrew Jay?

As a base point, we could model the game on the equivalent Civ3 scenario. I recall being pretty happy with that scenario .

Toss in some ideas from a few boardgames in that setting, like Samurai or Shogun. Hrmm... that is a good question, really...

Do we want to develop more of a scenario sort of mod or a ground up mod? For instance, in the civ3 scenario I'm thinking of, everyone started with basically the equivalent of a settler, a wariror and their daimyo (regent). But I recall another civ scenario for Sengoku Jidai that had each clan expanded with 3-4 major holdings or castles for each.. Do we want more of a "play in Japan" feel, or a play out that 100 year period, feel?

Shogun, now called Samurai Swords, is a pretty generic board game, with Japanese stylings. You can build samurai swordsman or archers, gunners, pesent infantry, try to hire the ninja, build castles, etc.

Conversely, Samurai is sort of like Kingmaker, with the granting of titles and offices, specific lords and leaders, as well as town and cities.

Do we want to create a mod with settlers, expansion and real tech development, or a mod where the cities and settlements are fixed (modulo being razed), and the tech is a lot more about developing contacts or indoctrinating one's clan in a particular ideology or technique?

andrew J is the guy who made the sengoku jidai scenario for cIV, found in the scenario section, but he doesnt seem to be online oftzen in the last time.
I own the board game Shogun, never played samurai, but i like the idea of both. I wouldnt mind modeling it after civ3 scenario either, i never played it, cause i dont own civ3...
About the question with the fixed setting or the settlers... i would like to have both, cause the first one would be a bit undynamicly i think but still a great setting for a good game, and the idea of settling down somewhere, developing new units and stuff is a very dynamic idea.

While i wrote that i thought, that the fixed starting with some cities and forts and such is better wo start with, cause it directly takes you into the atmosphere of this period. And your second idea about the tech sounds better too, it would be something fresh compared to vanilla civ.

So it sounds like we want to make two mods, then...

Sengoku Jidai first, modeling that specific war starting with the seizure of the Emperor by the Ashikaga Shogunate in 15.. uh.. 20? was it? God my memory is bad these days . And culminating in the ascendency of the Tokugawa shogunate. So perhaps at most, for sake of alternative history, about 100 years of time, so maybe we can try some fun stuff like 1 turn a season and morph terrain by season. That's just too much fun from my perspective 8). But I digress. Sengoku Jidai would involve not so much technology for research but adapatation of existing techniques, courting of imperial favor or titles, cultural movements, religious suppression and the like, as well as adopting new training and battle tactics to counter those of your opponents and to indoctrinate western gunpowder techniques into Japanese Warfare. There would be only three religions (Shintoism, Buddhism and Christianity), unless we felt like modeling the different sects of Buddhism for some reason. Explicit monasterys with their warrior monks, castles, cities, etc. all preset. We could, if we felt like it, model provinces using culture, and hard code cultural control to control of cities and sites within each province, granting cultural influence to those squares based on the owners of each such site or city. There would be specific leaders and events, perhaps some sort of marriage and wedding system at some point with Blood Royal style children, mercs co-opted from TheLopez, and a variety of other things that are just getting so numerous in my mind that I'm going to cut myself off here.

Once the baseline for Sengoku Jidai was in place we could then make a deritive second mod, called Sengoku Seikatsu or some such, featuring a longer 1 year/turn outlook with tech development conceptually starting in the early 1100s with the Mirumoto and the Taira and going on from there. This version would have settlers and the like and could be played on random maps or used for L5R scenarios or what have you. This sort of the idea?

your ideas sound very very interesting. we should take on the first idea. and later try the other one

ok, now we need a to do list.