Minor Leaders

For reasons of "story", mechanics, and convenience I think it'd be better to keep Korinna as a Major Leader rather than Minor. No really strong, reason, though.

The GCouncil leaders are Minor leader possibilities.

Alcinus - Reckless. (Insane?) Evil or Neutral. (Maybe change it randomly?)
Themoch - Philosophical?. Neutral.
Pelemoc - Is there a Lying, Manipulative Bastard trait? Neutral, maybe Evil.
Melante - Charismatic, maybe Tolerant. Neutral, maybe Good.

Themoch is a retering sort. It'd be neat-and-tidy to go with Melante as Good, then Pelemoc and Alcinus as Neutral and Evil. Or Evil and Neutral.

Other suggestions:
A "Tolerant" leader representing the Scion's nice side. Good.

There's a Scion military leader who invented Blackblood arrows back before the Age of Ice. Not a nice person. An archer who's into cruelty, killing, torture, etc. The sort who'd be right at home among the Svart. Evil.

A Doomgiver. Neutral.
 
Posting this to get opinions. I haven't actually played the scenarios involving the Infernal leaders, so I'm not sure what type of unit to make them... I'm mostly going with what the leader looks like/what's available.

Working list for the Infernal/Mercurian heroes:

Infernals:

  • Judecca - Death Knight. Defaulted to this, couldn't think of anything.
  • Duke Sallos - Balor. He just looks like one to me. :lol:
  • Ouzza - Ira. Again, looks like one.
  • Meresin - Lich/Wraith. First thought was a wraith, but a lich is more powerful. Maybe just use the wraith art, but base it off a lich?
  • Statius - Eater of Dreams? He looks like a caster, and this is the most demonic aside from a lich. All that's left, really. :lol:
  • Lethe - Succubus. Only female demon, basically.
Mercurians:

  • Dauvum - Seraph. Seems to match the leader head pretty well.
  • Bertus - Angel of Death.
  • Ferthegis - Herald/Ophanim/Valkyrie. Haven't decided.
 
Tarquelne said:
For reasons of "story", mechanics, and convenience I think it'd be better to keep Korinna as a Major Leader rather than Minor. No really strong, reason, though.

The GCouncil leaders are Minor leader possibilities.

Alcinus - Reckless. (Insane?) Evil or Neutral. (Maybe change it randomly?)
Themoch - Philosophical?. Neutral.
Pelemoc - Is there a Lying, Manipulative Bastard trait? Neutral, maybe Evil.
Melante - Charismatic, maybe Tolerant. Neutral, maybe Good.

Themoch is a retering sort. It'd be neat-and-tidy to go with Melante as Good, then Pelemoc and Alcinus as Neutral and Evil. Or Evil and Neutral.

Other suggestions:
A "Tolerant" leader representing the Scion's nice side. Good.

There's a Scion military leader who invented Blackblood arrows back before the Age of Ice. Not a nice person. An archer who's into cruelty, killing, torture, etc. The sort who'd be right at home among the Svart. Evil.

A Doomgiver. Neutral.
Click to expand...

Main reason I don't want to make her minor, myself. I like the ideas here though... Honestly, I'm aiming to give each leader either a trait that would be interesting for their civ, or a new trait that reflects the civs strong points. So I'd probably add new traits... Although the reckless trait for Tya Kiri would fit Alcinus as well. A tolerant scion leader is rather scary... Might be worth adding. :lol: Do you have any links to where you found the original art for the civ?
 
Went through all the minor leaders, picked out those that have duplicate traits and came up with a few ideas. This is already in post 5, but unless I put it in a new post noone will notice it. :lol:

Duplicate Leaders/Trait Ideas:

  • Tethira - Bannor - ?
  • Mahon the Butcher - Calabim - ?
  • Hafgan the Purger - Clan - Razed Earth
  • Thessalonica - Elohim - Demon Slaying for all Melee
  • Captain Uldanor - Hippus - ? Something to change focus from mounted?
  • Athel Revas - Khazad - Slaver. +15% chance to capture slaves, captured cities lose extra pop but spawn one slave per 2 pop.
  • Reorx Veinhunter - Khazad - ?
  • Casin - Lanun - Lanun - Egalitarian? Rather scary. :eek:
  • Mordmorgan - Lanun - HN, +2 Defense for all Naval units
  • Eldarwen - Ljosalfar - ?
  • Gimil - Luchuirp - ?
  • Kane - Malakim - ? Desert Stealth?
  • Malchavic - Sheaim - Prophecy Mark for all units?

Some of these I'm very unsure about (Malchavic, Casin), others just fit, like Mordmorgan's and Athel's. Much easier to do when you have a pedia entry to work from. :lol: For Hafgan, I was thinking a Razed Earth ability... Cannot capture cities, auto-raze improvements, etc, but gain combat 1 and shock. Sounds fun. :p
 
Personally, I'd give Eldarwen Alcarin Egalitarian (Hmm... GoN+FoL+Egl=OP?), Tethira could have something to improve her military (I believe that she's a general in the Bannor Army), Casin might be able to have Merchant, and Kane should have a variant of Raiders/Horselord that gives bonus mobility, as from what I've seen in his 'pedia entry. But I'm not exactly sure whether implementing these might make already powerful civs TOO overpowered, as with Ljosalfar Egalitarians, or Casin's financial powerhouse (Massive Trade Route economy).
 
Do things that are just strange then.

Wanderlust: Whenever a cottage/village/town upgrades, it moves to a random adjacent tile.

Bondsman: Any player currently in a war which you are not involved in can cast a spell which costs them (and gives to you) 50 gold per city you own and forces you to declare war on all their enemies. Any player at war with you can cast a spell which grants you 75 gold per city you own that forces you to declare peace.

Agoraphobia: All of your units auto-acquire a Blindness promotion upon leaving your (or your teamates) territory, except workers.


Hermit: None of your units can share the same tile


Tea Lover: Every 5th turn you are not allowed to do anything at all. Cities are in anarchy condition and units are held. (slightly better would be that the timer is on a per-unit/per-city basis, every 5th turn since created. Then each turn you still get to do something, but on average 20% of your civ is unavailable)

Child-friendly Entertainer: All of your units have a CityBonus type of promotion which grants happiness in nearby cities not under your control, but also reduces diplomatic relations with that civilization.

Eccentric: Every unit you produce has an even chance of being any UU (or the basic unit) of that unitclass instead of what you tried to actually build.

Addled: Every unit you produce has a 10% chance of instead being a chicken.


Instructor: All your units start with 1 free promotion (like Adepts, you can choose 1 promotion, or in the case OF adepts, 1 extra free promotion)


Contractor: 500% bonus to unit production, but all units are created with a 20 turn duration.
 
xienwolf said:
Do things that are just strange then.

Wanderlust: Whenever a cottage/village/town upgrades, it moves to a random adjacent tile.

Bondsman: Any player currently in a war which you are not involved in can cast a spell which costs them (and gives to you) 50 gold per city you own and forces you to declare war on all their enemies. Any player at war with you can cast a spell which grants you 75 gold per city you own that forces you to declare peace.

Agoraphobia: All of your units auto-acquire a Blindness promotion upon leaving your (or your teamates) territory, except workers.


Hermit: None of your units can share the same tile


Tea Lover: Every 5th turn you are not allowed to do anything at all. Cities are in anarchy condition and units are held. (slightly better would be that the timer is on a per-unit/per-city basis, every 5th turn since created. Then each turn you still get to do something, but on average 20% of your civ is unavailable)

Child-friendly Entertainer: All of your units have a CityBonus type of promotion which grants happiness in nearby cities not under your control, but also reduces diplomatic relations with that civilization.

Eccentric: Every unit you produce has an even chance of being any UU (or the basic unit) of that unitclass instead of what you tried to actually build.

Addled: Every unit you produce has a 10% chance of instead being a chicken.


Instructor: All your units start with 1 free promotion (like Adepts, you can choose 1 promotion, or in the case OF adepts, 1 extra free promotion)


Contractor: 500% bonus to unit production, but all units are created with a 20 turn duration.
Click to expand...

Some of these are very interesting... Bondsman would be perfect for a Hippus leader, Instructor for Tethira(Bannor), Entertainer could be fun for the Balseraphs. Eccentric could be VERY fun..... And at the same time annoying. :lol:
 
Valkrionn said:
Also, how about this for a D'teshi minor leader? As Cyther suggested, this would be an Angel of Death sent by Laroth to help D'tesh... D'tesh gets the bodies, Laroth gets the souls. :lol:

Click to expand...

Awesome pic, like the "supplicants"
 
Going with the name, Reorx Veinhunter could have an increased chance for mines popping resources. Or a commerce bonus for mines or something like that.
I don't like Malchavic's trait, the AC would go up in no time.
Some of these traits actually seem more like half-traits similar to ingenuity. Just giving Thessalonica's units the Demon Slaying promotion is similar to having no trait at all for most of the time. Maybe calling it "holy warriors" or something around these lines and also the ability for units to get +1 holy damage from a certain building (so you wouldn't have overpowered early units).
For Tethira maybe something called "zeal" which gives units the ability to blitz for one movement after they killed an enemy unit.
 
Got Instructor to work... Had to use a bit of python, but a very small bit because the call was already there in onunitbuilt. :goodjob: Tethira now recieves one free promotion per unit, which helps with the general vibe... All though I'm still not sure if Tethira is male or female. I'd think female from the name, but Notque had bfemale set to 0, so I'm not sure. :lol:
 
Some suggestions:
Mahon - Tyrant: No unhappiness, +5 unhealth in all cities. It has the potential for being powerful late-game, balanced by stunted growth in the early game and no production boost from Governor's Mansions.
Kane - Barbarian/Warlord
Gimil - Craftmaster: Golems gain Mobility 1
Reorx Vienhunter - Mining Expert: +1 hammer on all tiles producing 2 or more.
Thessalonica - Begins play with a Great Sage.
Tethria - Extremist: -4 diplomatic penalty with everyone, double Demagog spawn rate.
 
Valkrionn said:
Also, how about this for a D'teshi minor leader? As Cyther suggested, this would be an Angel of Death sent by Laroth to help D'tesh... D'tesh gets the bodies, Laroth gets the souls. :lol:

Click to expand...

NO

Not a minor leader.

Use this pic for Dtesh himself. It's perfect.
use the other one you picked for a minor leader, instead.

I was going to mention before you already picked, that a Dtesh picture should show him as the Lich he is. This is perfect.

Please use this as Dtesh's leaderhead.
 
Tarquelne said:
Alcinus - Reckless. (Insane?) Evil or Neutral. (Maybe change it randomly?)
Themoch - Philosophical?. Neutral.
Pelemoc - Is there a Lying, Manipulative Bastard trait? Neutral, maybe Evil.
Melante - Charismatic, maybe Tolerant. Neutral, maybe Good.
Click to expand...

I like this idea.


Alcinus:
Arcane, Summoner, Insane (Neutral)

Themoch:
Expansive, Aggressive ? (Neutral)

Pelemoc:
Financial, Charismatic (Neutral)

Melante:
Organised, Charismatic, Ingenuity (Good)
 
xienwolf said:
Do things that are just strange then.

Wanderlust: Whenever a cottage/village/town upgrades, it moves to a random adjacent tile.

Bondsman: Any player currently in a war which you are not involved in can cast a spell which costs them (and gives to you) 50 gold per city you own and forces you to declare war on all their enemies. Any player at war with you can cast a spell which grants you 75 gold per city you own that forces you to declare peace.

Agoraphobia: All of your units auto-acquire a Blindness promotion upon leaving your (or your teamates) territory, except workers.


Hermit: None of your units can share the same tile


Tea Lover: Every 5th turn you are not allowed to do anything at all. Cities are in anarchy condition and units are held. (slightly better would be that the timer is on a per-unit/per-city basis, every 5th turn since created. Then each turn you still get to do something, but on average 20% of your civ is unavailable)

Child-friendly Entertainer: All of your units have a CityBonus type of promotion which grants happiness in nearby cities not under your control, but also reduces diplomatic relations with that civilization.

Eccentric: Every unit you produce has an even chance of being any UU (or the basic unit) of that unitclass instead of what you tried to actually build.

Addled: Every unit you produce has a 10% chance of instead being a chicken.


Instructor: All your units start with 1 free promotion (like Adepts, you can choose 1 promotion, or in the case OF adepts, 1 extra free promotion)


Contractor: 500% bonus to unit production, but all units are created with a 20 turn duration.
Click to expand...

Some of these would be..... unusual.

I'd say Hermit, Tea Lover, Agoraphobia, and Wanderlust, would all be amusing, but rather crippling in practice. And not good for much more than novelty value. Instructor would be quite a powerful trait though.
 
far_wanderer said:
Some suggestions:
Mahon - Tyrant: No unhappiness, +5 unhealth in all cities. It has the potential for being powerful late-game, balanced by stunted growth in the early game and no production boost from Governor's Mansions.
Kane - Barbarian/Warlord
Gimil - Craftmaster: Golems gain Mobility 1
Reorx Vienhunter - Mining Expert: +1 hammer on all tiles producing 2 or more.
Thessalonica - Begins play with a Great Sage.
Tethria - Extremist: -4 diplomatic penalty with everyone, double Demagog spawn rate.
Click to expand...

Mahon - I like it. :goodjob: Could make the farm cities AMAZING if you get the right traits/resources, but at the cost of a slower early game... Very nice.
Kane - Warlord could fit... I've been trying to come up with a trait that would help show that the capital is the only important city but I can't come up with anything. :lol:
Gimil - I was thinking something along those lines, probably have to use python.
Reorx - Perfect. :goodjob:
Thessalonica - This one I don't like... Doesn't really seem to fit with the Elohim.
Tethira - I like it, although I prefer Instructor... Think I'll roll the diplo penalty into it though. Against evil/neutral?

WarKirby said:
NO

Not a minor leader.

Use this pic for Dtesh himself. It's perfect.
use the other one you picked for a minor leader, instead.

I was going to mention before you already picked, that a Dtesh picture should show him as the Lich he is. This is perfect.

Please use this as Dtesh's leaderhead.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I've been thinking the same thing after finding it. :lol:
 
WarKirby said:
I like this idea.


Alcinus:
Arcane, Summoner, Insane (Neutral)

Themoch:
Expansive, Aggressive ? (Neutral)

Pelemoc:
Financial, Charismatic (Neutral)

Melante:
Organised, Charismatic, Ingenuity (Good)
Click to expand...

Got to limit them to one trait, two tops, with Minor. Supposed to be Minor leaders after all. :lol: All in all though, I like it. Could see all of them as minors.

WarKirby said:
Some of these would be..... unusual.

I'd say Hermit, Tea Lover, Agoraphobia, and Wanderlust, would all be amusing, but rather crippling in practice. And not good for much more than novelty value. Instructor would be quite a powerful trait though.
Click to expand...

Yeah, those four would be very hard to use.
 
Valkrionn said:
Mahon - I like it. :goodjob: Could make the farm cities AMAZING if you get the right traits/resources, but at the cost of a slower early game... Very nice.
Kane - Warlord could fit... I've been trying to come up with a trait that would help show that the capital is the only important city but I can't come up with anything. :lol:
Gimil - I was thinking something along those lines, probably have to use python.
Reorx - Perfect. :goodjob:
Thessalonica - This one I don't like... Doesn't really seem to fit with the Elohim.
Tethira - I like it, although I prefer Instructor... Think I'll roll the diplo penalty into it though. Against evil/neutral?
Click to expand...
Kane - Hmm, I like that concept of the all-important capitol. I'll brainstorm a bit overnight and see if I can come up with anything.
Reorx - I can't take full credit, I had a vague memory of Orbis doing something like this with Industrious.
Thessalonica - The extent of my knowledge of her is that she is a Great Sage, so I was figuring it might be a good way to represent scholarly enlightenment.
Tethira - Yeah, you made your post about Instructor while I was writing. I like it better, too. Extremist mainly came out of the earlier discussions about the Bannor being intolerant warmongers - I figured if that was an impression people held, it might be good to have a leader that actually supports it. I was actually thinking of the penalty being against everyone, representing people's distrust of your tendency to crusade at the drop of a hat.
 
far_wanderer said:
Kane - Hmm, I like that concept of the all-important capitol. I'll brainstorm a bit overnight and see if I can come up with anything.
Reorx - I can't take full credit, I had a vague memory of Orbis doing something like this with Industrious.
Thessalonica - The extent of my knowledge of her is that she is a Great Sage, so I was figuring it might be a good way to represent scholarly enlightenment.
Tethira - Yeah, you made your post about Instructor while I was writing. I like it better, too. Extremist mainly came out of the earlier discussions about the Bannor being intolerant warmongers - I figured if that was an impression people held, it might be good to have a leader that actually supports it. I was actually thinking of the penalty being against everyone, representing people's distrust of your tendency to crusade at the drop of a hat.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the capital thing just seems to fit with Kane's description, and the image I have in my head... I just can't for the life of me think of a way to make it a trait. :lol:

I did not know that Thessalonica, but it's still not something I really like... Seems too weak, and yet too strong all at the same time. :lol:

I'm rolling the diplopenalties into Tethira as a leader... Maybe a penalty towards everyone, but a larger bonus for following the same religion? That way you'd end up with a crusade on your hands unless the two of you are following the same religion, regardless of alignment.
 
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