SGOTM 23 - Unusual Suspects

AlanH

AlanH

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Welcome to your BtS SGOTM 23 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

You can find the Game Details in the first posts of the Maintenance Thread. If any changes occur in the game settings or rules, they will be posted in that thread.

Please wait until your team leader/administrator/scribe has reserved a couple of top posts in this thread for game admin information. Then post here to let your team know you have arrived.

Good luck with the game, and - Have Fun! :)
 
Welcome

Here are the Teams:


Please sign in and indicate your availability to play.
I am reluctant captain.
I haven't gotten BUFFY to work with Steam and can't play currently.

Player Turn Order and Turns:
:popcorn:

updated 23 August:

Deckhand: 0 - 5, 70-82, 105-115, 140-153
nocho: 5-20, 115-125, 172-178
Ronnie1: 20 - 40, 55-70, 90-99, 131-140
Zhary: 40 - 54, 126-131, 154-172
kcd_swede: 83 - 89, 100-104
 
I think we are only team without any deity level players.
Spoiler :
edit, except nocho and maybe Zhary?


Goals:
1. Have Fun
2. Play cooperatively and better than any of us would do individually
3. Don't finish last
Spoiler :
I don't always have to win, but I hate losing. ;)


AlanH said:
SGOTM 23 - Orient Express
You lead the French people in their attempt to bring the people of the world closer to each other. Your homeland is beautiful and rich. Use this gift to build up your civilization and connect it to the far reaches of the world by constructing the Orient Express!

Your goals in this scenario:
Explore the world to find the spot labeled as "Istanbul" and the region labeled as the "Orient".
Own a city at the Istanbul spot and a city in the Orient region.
Connect your original capital and those two citys using an unbroken track of railroad.
Win the game.

To be sure the Express is safe and works properly, the whole track has to be either in your own borders or those of a vassall or a nation that has a defensive pact with you. Vassal states are enabled, but you may never have more than one vassal at a time.

The overall difficulty level is monarch.
To ensure an equal playing field, the AI capitals have been pre-founded and some early wonders are allready constructed. You might find some more little adjustments once you are ingame. In some areas the AI is stronger then a normal monarch AI, but the scenario as a whole is far from the last game in difficulty.

Game Options
Ancient Era Start
Normal Speed
No Goody Huts
No Events
Raging Barbarians
Domination Victory is disabled to avoid accidental triggering

Map size Standard
12 Opponents
Map: Pangaea-like setup
Difficulty: Monarch
=================================

=================================

Timetable

The team starting saves will be available here on May 8th.

The completion deadline will now be August 31st. Plan your game, and please avoid a last minute struggle to meet the deadline.
Please be warned, except in the event of cosmic catastrophes. THERE WILL BE NO DEADLINE EXTENSIONS.

Spoiler :
[*]Steam
If you play BtS using Steam, then your BtS will auto-update to a new version which is incompatible with those playing the DVD version. You will therefore need to install the Steam "beta" version to play this game.
You can check whether your copy of BtS is compatible by downloading a SGOTM 21 starting save. If it loads OK in your copy of BtS, then you are ready to play
.

[*]Rules and Procedures
Please visit the Civ4 SGOTM reference thread to check out the rules and procedures to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game.

Note, the usual GOTM restrictions apply: no replaying, no liberating cities to a civ you are at war with (except in peace deal), no subsidizing resource trades with AI, no goto mapping or flying camera, only 1 tech from Oracle/Liberalism.
Click to expand...
 
Checking in! I can play - but I'm way out of shape.
 
Team Rules and Links, copied from Shulec's post for SG20 team Civ Geeks United.

Team Rules and Etiquette
Spoiler :

Strongly Recommended

  • Make manual saves often, preferably every turn, in case we need to review diplomacy screens or other metrics.
  • Pause the game before uploading or examining it.
  • Put TEST flags on the map on test games, and name test games so it's obvious they aren't the real game.
  • Let us know if you are unable to make a deadline, get too busy in real life, or are going offline for vacation.
  • Do not automate workers.
  • Do not use city governors.
  • Do not leave units on goto orders.
  • Have fun!

Etiquette
  • Active participation -- Your contribution to every set is important, even if it's an 'I agree.' Although everyone might have real life issues sometimes, it's courteous to notify the team of your absence.
  • Pre-Play Plan -- The spirit of succession games is to play the game following the consensus of the team decision. Therefore the player who is UP should post a clear plan for discussion. Guidelines have been posted for the contents of your plan in the next post. It might be that the team decides to head in a direction you were opposed to, it does not mean you are wrong but rather that the team believes the odds of winning are more likely with the decided approach.
  • Timing -- We will stick to a schedule in order to complete this game within the 3 month ironcast deadline. It is still important to reach consensus and ensure quality of play.
    -An "Initial PPP" should be posted within 24 hours of the previous submission. After 24 hours, ANY player is open to posting an Initial PPP for team debate. Getting the debate going is sometimes the biggest delay as everyone may be waiting for a specific person to post the Initial PPP.
    -Game must be played within 48 hours of team consensus, otherwise ANY available player can post a "SUB" and immediately play the set
    -A "WILL PLAY" must be announced by the next rostered player, after the team consensus to 24 hours after a save is submitted. Otherwise YOU WILL BE SKIPPED.
    -Some sets will take much longer than others. If the UP player cannot play within 48 hrs of consensus due to RL issues, please inform the team early.
  • Please, please, please include a report when you submit the save, complete with the CivFanatics log AND the BUFFY log. You may submit your report later but it would be preferable to have it before the discussion on the next set starts.
  • Finish all your discussed turns and upload the game saved at the END of the discussed part.
  • Don’t be afraid to post things that may appear stupid or evident. Each player has strengths and weaknesses. There are numerous examples in the earlier SGOTM threads when the most simple rule has been unknown to players (such as the difference between peace treaty and cease fire). Don’t be afraid that other members will think you are stupid.
  • Don’t play intoxicated (from alcohol, drugs or smoke). Don’t play when you are too tired. Don't play when your kids or spouse are talking to you.
  • Respect your team mates, and demand their respect. Take care of your writing style. Accept that people whose first language is not English will use English in a different way than you are used to. Disagree by all means, but don't make it personal, and don't take it personally.
  • Use smilies and emoticons in your posts. Jokes, humor, sarcasm, and offensive language can be misinterpreted, except when I am making them, when I will expect everyone to laugh!!
  • Remember that a lot of players read what we post. Don't be rude or disrespectful to any player not on our team.
  • SG's are team games. Be a good team member. Post your ideas, argue your case, and encourage and praise your team mates. Don't be afraid to post in our game thread. That is what it's for.
  • Have fun!

Pre-Play Plan
Summary: post got it, post plan, discuss plan, revise plan, don't play without greens from active discussers
Spoiler :

Turn Sets

There are 7 major parts to every set.

  1. Initial Pre-Play Plan: see below.
  2. Voting: everyone voices his or her opinion on the issues raised in 1.
  3. Plan: see below.
  4. Critique of the Plan: once the Plan is posted, players should try/read the plan and look for anything they'd like to change. This is where you must support your arguments!
  5. Final Plan: tries to glue everything together.
  6. Play the Set: see below.
  7. Post the Report: see below


What is the Initial Pre-Play Plan?

The Pre-Play Plan is to initiate the discussion on the diverging possibilities at the start of a set. This includes, but not limited to, EP focus, general city micro, general worker micro, general techs. Basically, make an idea of what you want to do with your 10/15 turns.

Below are general ideas as to what you can cover with the pre-play plan. Not everything needs to be discussed, only the obvious decision points. If others feel that other missing issues should be raised, then the debate after the Initial PPP is the time to do it!

1. Technologies
  • What techs are you aiming for? (One, a beeline ex. Literature, part-research for trading)
  • What trades will you attempt with who and when? (When to sell for gold ex. first opportunity or wait for more, specify the leader(s), waiting for a wonder to finish so the AI get failure gold)
  • Are we planning a Great Person bulb?

2. Dealing with AIs
  • Resource trade negotiations
  • Espionage assignment
  • Open borders (cancel or allow)
  • AI demands (resources, cancel trades, who do we send packing or not, technologies, war, religions, civics)

3. City placement and builds - mostly in the beginning
  • Where are you planning on sending a settler?
  • Are you sending a worker along?
  • Is the land fogbusted/do we have an escort?
  • Initial city builds (Monument/Granary etc...)
  • Tile improvements around this city (food, hammers, commerce)

4. General micro
  • Special tile assignments (starve city for specialists, switch to growth, etc.)
  • Tile swapping with other cities
  • Whips
  • Build order (infrastructure/military/settlers/workers/wealth/science)
  • Dealing with happy/health caps
  • Worker improvements and moves

5. Civics and religion
  • Are you planning on civic switches/do we need to acquire the techs? (Caste for border pops, slavery for whip...)
  • Are we expecting a religion change?

6.War - if applicable
  • Refuse/accept AI war demands
  • Bribing civs to declare war or for stopping war
  • War plan (who, how many units and how to acquire them, which cities to strike, scouting prior to DoW...)

7. Bigger picture
  • Gifts (city, gold, techs...)
  • What AI do we try to please
  • Goals for the future
  • Diplo manipulation
  • Extras

What your Plan should cover:

The plan must contain 2 detailed parts:

  1. What you will check for every turn (EP, trades available, GPT available, etc.) [this is easy].
  2. Turn-by-turn worker moves, city micromanagement, unit movement and or general guidelines as to what we can't control via test game [this is the hard part].

The team will almost certainly decide to slack on #2 once the game becomes well in hand, but for the first 100 turns this is expected.

How your set should go:

  • Play according to the plan
  • If something unexpected (or an opportunity) comes up, STOP AND CHECK WITH THE TEAM.
  • If you have to adapt, do so!
  • You can add markers in game during and at the end of your set. It's a lot easier on team members to figure where units are going.

What your set report should cover:
  • WHEOOHRN alerts and possible/likely targets
  • Great Generals and Great Engineers in distant lands
  • Religions founded
  • Wonders built
  • When to renegotiate trades
  • What you were planning for the future
  • How the plan worked out/didn't
  • Anything unexpected
  • Remember to post BOTH the CivFanatics log (found on the upload confirmation screen) and the BUFFY log.

*Copied from neilmeister, Apostrophes SGOTM 19, which was itself liberally copied from various team threads in previous SGOTM games.

Links
Spoiler :

References and useful links:

Let me know of any to add.

Test Games, Dot Maps, and Spreadsheets
 
Here is a Test Game I started. It has the 25 revealed tiles per the screenshot.
I can try maintaining it from screen shots of active player. :confused: Or it might be better for active player to maintain it.
Not much use right now.

Let's discuss where to settle. Twelve other civs. No production besides forests for SIP.

Note, BSPollux creates all his maps from scratch after wiping whatever he started with. Everything on the map was put there by the map maker.
 

Attachments

  • SGOTM23 Test Turn 0.CivBeyondSwordWBSave
    242.2 KB · Views: 176
First turn set proposal:
Move missionary 1 space NW
Move scout 1 space S
Move warrior 2 tile NE
Save
Take and post screenshot

With what we see, I want wheat and deer and hill in BFC. So, settle 1N or 2E.
 
I'm here checking in.

I can play anytime except 4 weeks after midsummer when my family have vaccation.

Deckhand said:
I think we are only team without any deity level players.
Spoiler :
edit, except may Zhary?
Click to expand...

:)Thanks but I think that Nocho usually ends up above me when we play normal gotm.

I also think that scouting is or first move and some kind of production is needed for the cap in the long run.

GWall:
Raging barbs are on but its a crowded map so its probably not a good idea. I runned some test with pangea with low ocean and 12 opponents and I was even able to defend me with archers without any problem.

Start tech:
Hunting is an obious choice but then its between pottery or bw. Since we going for RR fast pottery sounds like a good idea but BW is probably better anyway.
 
So Deckhand thinks I'm not deity level. :cry: Well, probably that's right but I did win some deity games albeit mainly of the turbocharged BOTM variety. ;) Anyway, I do completely agree with the stated goals and the order in which they were placed. I participated in a good number of SGOTMs and never won a medal, but never got the wooden spoon either. Let's just make a good game out of it and keep the gap with Turbo Ants and PR (Rusten!) sort of bridgeable, like, not more than 2 centuries behind, hehe.

Opening moves sound ok, although I'd be inclined to move scout SE (twice). If you look at the screen shot full size it seems clear there are more hills to the east. With that and from what we see now I'd settle 1E or 2E. If warrior or missionary reveal something (hills!) 1N might become possible too.

Missionary likely should be used on 2nd city for a border pop.

(Xpost)
 
On availability, I'm available. :)

My playing time is usually limited to evenings and some time in the weekend. I usually do check the thread quite often during the day though. August mght be a bit complicated with the holidays but I'll bring the laptop along with me probably.

Regarding time zones, we're 3 Europeans, 2 Americans and an Aussie, right?
 
nocho said:
So Deckhand thinks I'm not deity level. :cry:
Click to expand...
Maybe it's just false humility. I think we are similar skill level. There were a few games in the past where we were very close when going for same victory. I think you are better than me though. But I don't consider myself deity at all. I avoid that level. Some players only play at it.
nocho said:
Regarding time zones, we're 3 Europeans, 2 Americans and an Aussie, right?
Click to expand...
Right. We span the frozen tundra of Iberia, the warm sandy beaches of Scandinavia, the dense jungles of Australia, and the sea urchin deserts (previously kelp forests) of California.
edit, And the beautiful tropical forests of eastern Washington State.
 
Checking in.

Available until further notice at normalish north American west coast hours.

I would move the warrior 1st NE and evaluate based on hill potential. I like scout 2 SE with nocho for the same reasons.

I initially favor settling 2E.
 
Deckhand said:
But I don't consider myself deity at all. I avoid that level. Some players only play at it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, although this goes without much proof of any kind, I think with a good start I can crack deity. However, I don't really enjoy it, too much work. Also, in SP I play too quickly for my own good, so am bound to forget something silly that'll likely screw up previous hard work. Just not willing to dedicate enough time or energy to it. I'll save that for SGOTM. ;) In any case, the interesting part of a team game is that the individual level of every team member isn't really all that relevant anyway.

By the way, one silly thing about the etiquette: I personally don't like uploading paused games. Not all info is retrievable when the game is paused (all possible trades for instance), and I fear more unpausing a game (because of some unit on go-to orders or whatever) than accidentally moving a unit. If I "mess about" I'll take care to pause myself beforehand.

Also, I don't even know how to do that, but some upload saves after end-turn but before the whole city queue renewal sequence comes up (it looks like an autosave sometimes). I personally find that slightly annoying and it also feels risky to me to get saves like that. I would propose to get saves after all imaginable end-of-turn/beginning-of-turn pop-ups have passed.
 
Zhary said:
GWall:
Raging barbs are on but its a crowded map so its probably not a good idea. I runned some test with pangea with low ocean and 12 opponents and I was even able to defend me with archers without any problem.
Click to expand...
Agree. Also, I suspect GW will be presettled somewhere. Last game already was a GW game, I think BSP this time would like us to have some barb issues but not too much thanks to a crowded map.

Oracle surely will be out too.

Zhary said:
Start tech:
Hunting is an obious choice but then its between pottery or bw. Since we going for RR fast pottery sounds like a good idea but BW is probably better anyway.
Click to expand...
Hunting for sure. Mining-BW likely next.

Mental notes: Wheat on grass will be a 6 food tile + coin, deer 5 food and a hammer. So wheat is a slightly superior tile. Wheat takes 5 turns, deer 4, but needs to get worker on forest.
 
I can definitely say I am not a deity player, my normal play level would be MP since I normally played against humans, but this will be the first time I have played any Civ4 for a long time. Currently I am mainly playing Conquests. When laying I need to unlearn the habits of conquest since the action and mouse buttons are different.
 
Deckhand said:
First turn set proposal:
Move missionary 1 space NW
Move scout 1 space S
Move warrior 2 tile NE
Save
Take and post screenshot

With what we see, I want wheat and deer and hill in BFC. So, settle 1N or 2E.
Click to expand...

Would you be able to play/participate if you had a disk? Just asking because I do have 2 official disks for vanilla and for BTS (only one for Warlords). I'm guessing you'd ned both a vanilla disk and a BTS disk. PM me a mail address and they're yours, free of charge. Just one condition: if my remaining disks somehow get lost, destroyed, or stolen, I would want'em back.

Seriously. I needed the second disk way back when other family members were into the game (got them super cheap as well) - but I'm the only hold-out and they are just gathering dust. The disks, not the family:p
 
Hi there lovely players, warm greetings to you!

I hope you will enjoy playing my little scenario as much as I enjoyed fantazing about you cursing me while I made it! As allways,I will try to read all your team threads, but if you have an important question you need answered quickly, PM is the way to go.

Please concider posting screenshots in this thread regularly. It's fun for us lurkers and it's fun for those other teams that want to see what you did after the game is over. And obviously it helps your discussion as well.

OK, lets see who gets the John Henry reward :)

Enjoy!

(And as allways: Don't try to read my mind!)
 
kcd_swede said:
Would you be able to play/participate if you had a disk?
Click to expand...
Thanks, but no.
I have all the disks. Windows 10 won't read them. I was unable to install them with windows 8 when I bought this laptop. Since then I upgraded (downgraded) to Win10. Also ms changed win7&8 to not be able to read disks as well. I'm not going thru the shenanigans to try to fool windows (and I think that only works w 8 not 10) So, I got Civ4 complete on Steam and it works. But I haven't gotten the HoF/BUFFY mods working. I assume it is something easy ("It's easy when you know how"). But the few times I've tried I was unsuccessful. In my discouragement I haven't tried a fourth time.
Spoiler :
Actually, BUFFY works on my old desktop. (not vanilla nor warlords HoF). I still have it in my old house. I left it behind for family members to use. Maybe I should go get it. ;) I'm not driving 80 miles just to play turnsets.
 
nocho said:
Yeah, although this goes without much proof of any kind, I think with a good start I can crack deity. However, I don't really enjoy it, too much work. Also, in SP I play too quickly for my own good, so am bound to forget something silly that'll likely screw up previous hard work. Just not willing to dedicate enough time or energy to it.
Click to expand...

I think thats true for me to. Im one of those guys that if you give me a fast enough computer and 40h/weeks I could program something that would beat the world master in chess. Its not so hard to make detailed analysis of math based games if you have the time and the times I have beaten deity on civ 4 I had quite some time to do so planning.

Deckhand said:
Thanks, but no.
I have all the disks. Windows 10 won't read them. I was unable to install them with windows 8 when I bought this laptop. Since then I upgraded (downgraded)
Click to expand...

:(yeah upgrades are to software what rust is to cars.

Deckhand said:
to Win10. Also ms changed win7&8 to not be able to read disks as well. I'm not going thru the shenanigans to try to fool windows (and I think that only works w 8 not 10) So, I got Civ4 complete on Steam and it works. But I haven't gotten the HoF/BUFFY mods working. I assume it is something easy ("It's easy when you know how"). But the few times I've tried I was unsuccessful. In my discouragement I haven't tried a fourth time.
Spoiler :
Actually, BUFFY works on my old desktop. (not vanilla nor warlords HoF). I still have it in my old house. I left it behind for family members to use. Maybe I should go get it. ;) I'm not driving 80 miles just to play turnsets.
Click to expand...

Do you want so team effort to get buffy working? It might be good to have an extra active player and I think I would prefer buffy on the test game but atm it means that you could not make any micro planning. (if you want to do that)
 
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