TheMarshmallowBear
Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom
Unforunately they won't because that type of advantage would've been immediately known from the description, they get to pick "one more belief than normal when founding religion"
The Byzantine Empire
- Thread starter FridoDiamond
- Start date
Unforunately they won't because that type of advantage would've been immediately known from the description, they get to pick "one more belief than normal when founding religion"
prince_caspian
Prince
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2012
- Messages
- 452
It's not a stretch of imagination to believe that cataphract is a replacement of horseman. Currently Horseback Riding only unlocks 2 units including 1 UU but Chivalry unlocks 6. Unless those 5 UUs are getting a tech overhaul I myself think it's quite unlikely to have yet more Chivalry UUs in G&K. Which I think makes sense when most of the new horse UUs are coincidentially not knight replacements. I think it's better for Byzantine overall - plus I have reason to believe that Dromons will come no later than medieval. So we're talking about getting potentially very powerful UUs that early in the game. Add in the patriarchate UA, I can actually imagine a very strong religio-military civ in the making indeed.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
They also might be in the Into the Renaissance scenario as well, it's tough to say.
Other than the fact that the Byzantium civ represents the Eastern Roman Empire in that scenario. So the possibility is there for the cataphract to replace the horseman. In the standard game, however, IMO the cataphract should replace the knight.
Heinage
Khan
Given the fact that the Byzantines were a medieval power rather than classical power, I would find it odd if the Cataphract replaces the horseman rather than knight.
Byzantine Cataphracts were used from around 7th century to 10th or 11th century, or something like that.
Also, consider the fact that if they get Cataphracts at horseback riding, that would make them a contemporary (unit-wise) of the classical Roman Empire, the very empire they broke away from and semi-replaced. Because then Cataphracts would come at the same time as Legionaries and Ballistas, which makes no sense.
Cataphracts at Chivalry is the only possibility in my mind.
And if that means there are lots of UU at Chivalry, so be it. Why is that a problem??
Byzantine Cataphracts were used from around 7th century to 10th or 11th century, or something like that.
Also, consider the fact that if they get Cataphracts at horseback riding, that would make them a contemporary (unit-wise) of the classical Roman Empire, the very empire they broke away from and semi-replaced. Because then Cataphracts would come at the same time as Legionaries and Ballistas, which makes no sense.
Cataphracts at Chivalry is the only possibility in my mind.
And if that means there are lots of UU at Chivalry, so be it. Why is that a problem??
elprofesor
Pluri-editing poster
Well, sure, cataphracts come much after the Roman legion, but they come much before conquistadores too. So it's just half an argument (remember that "years" pass by much faster in the first turns of the game than later on).
Personally I wouldn't mind a 3-move UU horsemen that actually does pack a punch. I believe that Naresuan elephants already kinda take the spot that cataphracts may occupy at chivalry. But I have no strong feelings about it either.
Personally I wouldn't mind a 3-move UU horsemen that actually does pack a punch. I believe that Naresuan elephants already kinda take the spot that cataphracts may occupy at chivalry. But I have no strong feelings about it either.
Heinage
Khan
Good points actually.
Horseback riding...does that come a bit later now with the new tech tree?
EDIT: having thought about it again, it still wouldn't sit comfortably with me to have cataphracts with horseback riding.
I think in the end, rather than thinking about what uu it might clash with, it's more important to think about the flavor of the civ. And in this case, I feel the Byzantines should have a medieval flavor.
Also, at chivalry you might say it clashes with conquistadors, however conquistadors really only get their awesome unique power after researching astronomy so they can cross the ocean to explore and settle new continents...
Horseback riding...does that come a bit later now with the new tech tree?
EDIT: having thought about it again, it still wouldn't sit comfortably with me to have cataphracts with horseback riding.
I think in the end, rather than thinking about what uu it might clash with, it's more important to think about the flavor of the civ. And in this case, I feel the Byzantines should have a medieval flavor.
Also, at chivalry you might say it clashes with conquistadors, however conquistadors really only get their awesome unique power after researching astronomy so they can cross the ocean to explore and settle new continents...
elprofesor
Pluri-editing poster
Yep, now it requires trapping and archery too, so it will take roughly 50% extra beakers to rush it.
Iron working has the same prerequisites than before, but now the tech itself will be much more expensive (I don't know the exact numbers).
Iron working has the same prerequisites than before, but now the tech itself will be much more expensive (I don't know the exact numbers).
Maybe Byzantium bulbed a Great Scientist to get Chivalry before the Spanish?
The Cataphract is too similar to the knights to be put anywhere else, imo. Maybe have it replace knights, but have it come at an earlier tech, like, umm... civil service?
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Personally, I think the Conquistador should be a Lancer replacement, but I digress. I could also see a "Dark Ages" mounted unit, maybe with a tech like "Stirrups."
apocalypse105
Deity
- Joined
- May 17, 2011
- Messages
- 2,705
Conquistadors where lords who conquered and explored new worlds for spain
THe lancer represent the light cavalry at the napoleon age
If you look all the unique units which replaces Knight,you can see a huge space of time between their uses(about one millenium I guess) . Camel Archers are the oldest ones,which came to be used a few centuries after Byzantine's Army start to use cataphracts and it was involved in combats against them . And Naresuan's Elephants(Siam UU) are the newest Knight's replacement .
kiwimaster
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2010
- Messages
- 65
Anybody else notice the UU update on the well of souls site? Not sure where the source of pic for the cataphract stats is from though.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Really? I thought it was Cavalry from closer to the 30 Years War. I thought "Cavalry" represented Napoleonic cavalry. I think this just shows the compressed timeline is messed up to a significant degree.
TheMarshmallowBear
Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom
Hm, that is strange.. I'm guessing there were more than Theodora's loading screen leaked.
And I believe it's a Horseman!
KillingMeSoftly
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2011
- Messages
- 279
Horseman replacement? Really? Bizarre. Only slightly stronger than the horseman as well, and apparently with nothing else.
Cicero63
Warlord
I wonder where he found that info
Cavalry would be more represented around the American Civil War, Indian Wars time period. That's why the hussar should be a lancer replacement. Conquistadores should available to Spain earlier than lancer. Spain should also have a period with knights which they did have for hundreds of years. However, things won't be the way I would like.
The whole scheme is a mess historically, but it is a game, so as you know there will have to be game balance adjustments. Units will be put where the best place for them is according to the devs. Hopefully the modders think more like me as far as units go.
